Benford termination watch thread

UNT90 · February 12, 2016

When UNT losses one more game, the men's basketball program will be guaranteed of another losing season.

Does Benford get fired or extended? It seems like an outrageous question, but we are UNT and Rivk Villarreal is still AD.

It should come the day after the end of the season.

Will it?

southsideguy · February 12, 2016

it will

foutsrouts · February 12, 2016

Yes, it's over. Unless of course the sun rises in the west and we win a couple of tourney games. Sad to say, but God forbid any of that stuff.

BillySee58 · February 12, 2016

2 hours ago, UNT90 said:

but we are UNT and Rivk Villarreal is still AD.

Update on RV and the revenue hires he's made in the last 10 years. If men or women can't seriously turn things around quick, we're looking at 1 winning season out of 21 for this crop. And, you know, 145 games under .500.

WBB:

- 25-67 Stephens (2008-2011)

- 15-16 Aston (2011-2012)

- 28-61 Peterson (2012-2015)

- 8-13 Jalie Mitchell (2015-2016)

76-157 total

MBB:

- 12-20 Benford (2012-2013)

- 16-16 Benford (2013-2014)

- 14-17 Benford (2014-2015)

- 9-15 Benford

51-68 total

Football:

- 6-37 Dodge (2007-2010)

- 22-32 Mccarney (2011-2015)

- 3-9 Canales (2010, 2015)*

28-69 total

*31-78 total including Canales

Combined Total:

155-294

*158-303 including Canales

145 games under .500

Edited February 12, 2016 by BillySee58

greenminer · February 12, 2016

1 hour ago, BillySee58 said:

Update on RV and the revenue hires he's made in the last 10 years. If men or women can't seriously turn things around quick, we're looking at 1 winning season out of 21 for this crop. And, you know, 145 games under .500.

WBB:

- 25-67 Stephens (2008-2011)

- 15-16 Aston (2011-2012)

- 28-61 Peterson (2012-2015)

- 8-13 Jalie Mitchell (2015-2016)

76-157 total

MBB:

- 12-20 Benford (2012-2013)

- 16-16 Benford (2013-2014)

- 14-17 Benford (2014-2015)

- 9-15 Benford

51-68 total

Football:

- 6-37 Dodge (2007-2010)

- 22-32 Mccarney (2011-2015)

- 3-9 Canales (2010, 2015)*

28-69 total

*31-78 total including Canales

Combined Total:

155-294

*158-303 including Canales

145 games under .500

Unlike certain posters which I will not name, you could post this update in every thread on this board - as many times as you want - and I would support you.

#HammerItHome

UNT90 · February 12, 2016

6 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

Update on RV and the revenue hires he's made in the last 10 years. If men or women can't seriously turn things around quick, we're looking at 1 winning season out of 21 for this crop. And, you know, 145 games under .500.

WBB:

- 25-67 Stephens (2008-2011)

- 15-16 Aston (2011-2012)

- 28-61 Peterson (2012-2015)

- 8-13 Jalie Mitchell (2015-2016)

76-157 total

MBB:

- 12-20 Benford (2012-2013)

- 16-16 Benford (2013-2014)

- 14-17 Benford (2014-2015)

- 9-15 Benford

51-68 total

Football:

- 6-37 Dodge (2007-2010)

- 22-32 Mccarney (2011-2015)

- 3-9 Canales (2010, 2015)*

28-69 total

*31-78 total including Canales

Combined Total:

155-294

*158-303 including Canales

145 games under .500

@flyonthewall now that is vision, eh?

UNT Five&Dime · February 12, 2016

If it should come the day after the end of the season, why do I need to be on termination watch now? Seems like I could just go back to ignoring the program for 26 days and be a much happier person.

Edited February 12, 2016 by UNT Five&Dime

UNT90 · February 12, 2016

6 hours ago, UNT Five&Dime said:

If it should come the day after the end of the season, why do I need to be on termination watch now? Seems like I could just go back to ignoring the program for 26 days and a much happier person.

While there is little chance of it happening before the season ends (and I feel a 50/50 chance of it happening at all), there is always the possibility that Pres. Smatresk wants to get a jump on the new search. It could come as soon as the next loss, granted the chances are slim.

Edited February 12, 2016 by UNT90

BillySee58 · February 12, 2016

9 hours ago, greenminer said:

Unlike certain posters which I will not name, you could post this update in every thread on this board - as many times as you want - and I would support you.

#HammerItHome

It honestly doesn't matter. President Smatresk, the major donors, and RV himself are well aware of these numbers. Maybe not the exact number, but they've seen it at various stages. If it mattered to then something would've happened long ago.

3 hours ago, UNT90 said:

@flyonthewall now that is vision, eh?

He's seen it before. What makes you think we've somehow passed a tipping point with any of them?

Edited February 12, 2016 by BillySee58

UNT90 · February 12, 2016

6 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

It honestly doesn't matter. President Smatresk, the major donors, and RV himself are well aware of these numbers. Maybe not the exact number, but they've seen it at various stages. If it mattered to then something would've happened long ago.

He's seen it before. What makes you think we've somehow passed a tipping point with any of them?

And I don't think we ever will. I think attendance could fall to an 8k average next year and no one in the UNT administration would bat an eye, much less hold the athletic director accountable.

Edited February 12, 2016 by UNT90

untjim1995 · February 12, 2016

4 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

It honestly doesn't matter. President Smatresk, the major donors, and RV himself are well aware of these numbers. Maybe not the exact number, but they've seen it at various stages. If it mattered to then something would've happened long ago.

He's seen it before. What makes you think we've somehow passed a tipping point with any of them?

And none of it matters.

RV isn't getting fired. If he was going to be replaced, it would have already happened.

RV has the full backing of 17 people who love the access and laughs they get from the AD. And the BOR is fine with that.

Benford will get fired as soon as a winning season isn't possible...just like Dodge did. By "saving" 325k extra, we have been rewarded, just like we were with Vic Trilli and Todd Dodge, with a 4th year of lots of losing. But we don't care about attendance or donations. We care about the known costs, and we know that buying out Benford last year would have cost $325k more than it does now.

Ben Gooding · February 12, 2016

9 hours ago, greenminer said:

Unlike certain posters which I will not name, you could post this update in every thread on this board - as many times as you want - and I would support you.

#HammerItHome

As will I. The numbers are pitiful and need to be shoved down people's throats. It's absolute garbage. Past disgusting. And, yet, there are STILL people that support this regime and will come on here and defend it. It's beyond belief. Just LOOK!!

BillySee58 · February 12, 2016

6 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

And I don't think we ever will. I think attends could fall to an 8k average next year and no one in the UNT administration would bat an eye, much less hold the athletic director accountable.

I uncovered this number last football season (2014) after the UAB game. At the time the number was about 98 or 99 games under .500.

I thought if we had to fire a revenue coach, or one of either the men's basketball or football coach then that would be it for RV. In that short time the revenue sports have lost almost 50 more games then they've won, and we're about to have fired all three of the revenue coaches who were around back then. Yet still, not the least amount of pressure on RV.

Edited February 12, 2016 by BillySee58

MeanGreenTexan · February 12, 2016

3 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

And I don't think we ever will. I think attendance could fall to an 8k average next year and no one in the UNT administration would bat an eye, much less hold the athletic director accountable.

You forget... what's the thing RV is best at? Balancing his budget. A 5K+ drop in avg attendance would create quite a budget shortfall. This would certainly give the UNT administration motivation to can him. Otherwise, keep it at $0 or even in the black a little, and the UNT administration will continue to focus on other things like UNT-Frisco, Campus buildings/growth, Tier 1 stuff, etc...

UNTGuy5 · February 12, 2016

I have been waiting for Benford to get fired since almost the moment they hired him. But, since he was able to talk Tony Mitchell into sticking around, I figured I'd give him the benefit of the doubt.

After his disaster 12-20 first season, I think we've all known it was time for Benford to go. RV needs to sack up and fire him.

Maybe we'll get lucky, RV will look in the mirror, see how crappy he is at his job, and follow Benford out the door.

UNT90 · February 12, 2016

11 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

I uncovered this number last football season (2014) after the UAB game. At the time the number was about 98 or 99 games under .500.

I thought if we had to fire a revenue coach, or one of either the men's basketball or football coach then that would be it for RV. In that short time the revenue sports have lost almost 50 more games then they've won, and we're about to have fired all three of the revenue coaches who were around back then. Yet still, not the least amount of pressure on RV.

Which begs the question, why should any season ticket holder renew in any sport? UNT is basically telling us they don't care about anything but coming in under budget. Jim has been right in his analysis. At first I thought there is no way a major university could be that short sighted, but they have proven this out over the last couple of years.

People are going to walk away this year. Lots of them. It'll be interesting to see the RV spin on this.

3 minutes ago, UNTGuy5 said:

I have been waiting for Benford to get fired since almost the moment they hired him. But, since he was able to talk Tony Mitchell into sticking around, I figured I'd give him the benefit of the doubt.

After his disaster 12-20 first season, I think we've all known it was time for Benford to go. RV needs to sack up and fire him.

Maybe we'll get lucky, RV will look in the mirror, see how crappy he is at his job, and follow Benford out the door.

Lol, and walk away from the easiest $375k in America? Not gonna happen.

Would you?

Edited February 12, 2016 by UNT90

MeanGreenTexan · February 12, 2016

6 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

Which begs the question, why should any season ticket holder renew in any sport? UNT is basically telling us they don't care about anything but coming in under budget. Jim has been right in his analysis. At first I thought there is no way a major university could be that short sighted, but they have proven this out over the last couple of years.

People are going to walk away this year. Lots of them. It'll be interesting to see the RV spin on this.

Lol, and walk away from the easiest $375k in America? Not gonna happen.

Would you?

If McCarney remained, yes. As it stands, there's a fresh new coach in town and people will have a renewed sense of optimism, as seen on this very board. If there is no turnaround, then maybe you're right.

UNT90 · February 12, 2016

14 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

If McCarney remained, yes. As it stands, there's a fresh new coach in town and people will have a renewed sense of optimism, as seen on this very board. If there is no turnaround, then maybe you're right.

Don't let the opinion of 30 of the most hardcore fans sway you. They are going to be there if UNT goes 0-12 the next 10 years.

And as negative and as on message as I've been, the poll to limit my posts was just about split down the middle. Some people aren't comfortable going the route I've gone, even though the may have similar sentiments.

Something to keep in mind.

MeanGreenTexan · February 12, 2016

1 minute ago, UNT90 said:

Don't let the opinion of 30 of the most hardcore fans sway you. They are going to be there if UNT goes 0-12 the next 10 years.

And as negative and as on message as I've been, the poll to limit my posts was just about split down the middle. Some people aren't comfortable going the route I've gone, even though the may have similar sentiments.

Something to keep in mind.

I know the people here are die-hards. I'm just saying I don't think we're going to see a dip in attendance to 8K after hiring a new coach... it's just not going to happen. If it does, I will be the first to let you know you were right and I was wrong.

UNT90 · February 12, 2016

Just now, MeanGreenTexan said:

I know the people here are die-hards. I'm just saying I don't think we're going to see a dip in attendance to 8K after hiring a new coach... it's just not going to happen. If it does, I will be the first to let you know you were right and I was wrong.

On that we agree. It was obviously a number pulled out of thin air to make a point.

Although, if this thing tanks early and no QB that Littrell brought in succeeds in his system, I do think these types of crowds late in the year will be the norm in 2016.

Think UTEP 2015.

Army of Dad · February 12, 2016

2 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I know the people here are die-hards. I'm just saying I don't think we're going to see a dip in attendance to 8K after hiring a new coach... it's just not going to happen. If it does, I will be the first to let you know you were right and I was wrong.

Yeah, the dead cat bounce/excitement of a new coach should even out the attendance drop that was going to happen and possibly lead to a slight uptick.

If they can start out 2-0 then an increase is almost certain. Especially considering that last year represents a major low in attendance.

untjim1995 · February 12, 2016

What helps RV with the declining attendance is the fact that CUSA TV payout has been better than anything we had before, although that is about to decline significantly. That helps to keep the BOR focused on the things they want to focus on, as MGT noted. Of course, scheduling big payout games in football and basketball still covers a lot of bills, too, which he has going forward for the next 5 years or more.

MGT is right about the day of reckoning being about being out of budget. But that will happen because of the bigger revenue streams we currently get thru TV and bodybag games, not because of declining attendance. Again, that attendance drop in both sports would have already cost him his job if that was the case. Its not and that is why he has it made as long as 17 people will continue to fund the department over and above what the UNT BOR budgets.

Ben Gooding · February 12, 2016

1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

You forget... what's the thing RV is best at? Balancing his budget. A 5K+ drop in avg attendance would create quite a budget shortfall. This would certainly give the UNT administration motivation to can him. Otherwise, keep it at $0 or even in the black a little, and the UNT administration will continue to focus on other things like UNT-Frisco, Campus buildings/growth, Tier 1 stuff, etc...

huh? Since 2013 football attendance has almost doubled down. 0 pressure has come from that. So I am unsure where you are getting that idea from. Smastrek talked a huge game when first coming to campus about how sports should be a primary window to this university. I think he has steered clear of that idea and is trying to build his UNT legacy through UNT-Frisco, which in the real grand scheme of things no one really cares about. UNT-Frisco in comparison to what sports could do for this university pales in comparison and it's not even close.

MeanGreenTexan · February 12, 2016

5 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

huh? Since 2013 football attendance has almost doubled down. 0 pressure has come from that. So I am unsure where you are getting that idea from. Smastrek talked a huge game when first coming to campus about how sports should be a primary window to this university. I think he has steered clear of that idea and is trying to build his UNT legacy through UNT-Frisco, which in the real grand scheme of things no one really cares about. UNT-Frisco in comparison to what sports could do for this university pales in comparison and it's not even close.

2015 was a huge jump down in attendance from 2013 & 2014. So it's not like it's been sinking at a 4k/yr rate.
However, RV was able to make up for 2015's giant budget shortfall with 2 paycheck games... lucky guy.
He won't have that luxury again this year.

untjim1995 · February 12, 2016

2 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

huh? Since 2013 football attendance has almost doubled down. 0 pressure has come from that. So I am unsure where you are getting that idea from. Smastrek talked a huge game when first coming to campus about how sports should be a primary window to this university. I think he has steered clear of that idea and is trying to build his UNT legacy through UNT-Frisco, which in the real grand scheme of things no one really cares about. UNT-Frisco in comparison to what sports could do for this university pales in comparison and it's not even close.

Young Ben, we have been trying to tell you this for multiple years now. The leadership at this university will never look at sports the way you want them to. They care a ton about UNT-Dallas or UNT-Frisco, as they know its easy money to get more students to enroll.

Winning at revenue sports has never mattered here one iota. Never. There are literally decades of figures from w/l records, attendance, fundraising, etc..to look at to back this up. Just now, we have 17 alums, out of hundreds of thousands of UNT graduates, who care enough about UNT sports to fund it at a "big" level. And how does the BOR and administration look at them? Like they are god-sends, because they don't have to put any emphasis on even caring about something they don't want to care about. Hence, we get UNT-Dallas from Lee Jackson. We get UNT-Frisco, which Smatresk seems giddy about.