Mason and Jason

[MEANGREENCOACH2]

page 2!!!

@eulessismore

Edited February 11, 2016 by MEANGREENCOACH2

[SilverEagle]

1 hour ago, UNT90 said:

I don't have a problem with his height, it's his weight that worries me. And the fact that he played low level football in Oklahoma. 

He needs to put on 20 to 30 pounds to avoid injuries. If you read the articles, he has been doing everything in his power to do this, his metabolism just hasn't cooperated. 

I wouldn't expect him to grow another inch. I think it was Travis (??) who knows the family and says there isn't any height in his mom or dad to expect this to happen. And that's Fine , weight is the much bigger issue.

If his arm and intelligence are as advertised, he could compete for the job as a redshirt Frosh. The question will always be: Can he stay upright? Dodge couldn't. 

Hopefully Fine can. 

I'd rather be called a jackass than an enabler... Just saying...

I too don't have a problem with his height and his weight concerns me only if he takes off running and decides to try and break a tackle rather than take a dive. The thing that will be of most benefit to him is his quickness and peripheral vision. QB's with great peripheral vision can avoid the rush and/or direct hits much better than ones with average peripheral vision. Great peripheral vision also helps you plan/make your throws between....,obstacles. It's not only your weight, but how dense your bone structure is and how strong your ligaments are that hold them together. 

I'm positive he can put on some weight. My son was over 6' and he played his whole high school career at 155lbs. Fortunately at WR. He used weight gain supplements after HS and, (thanks to being a gym rat) is currently a solid 190lbs.

 

ps; We have a RB on our team that is currently 5'7" X 177. I saw him take a lot of hits in last spring's practices/scrimmages and I don't think he ever got injured. 

Edited February 11, 2016 by SilverEagle

[UNT90]

1 minute ago, flyonthewall said:

I'd rather be called an enabler than a retard.......unless I was the rain main, I mean he practically bankrupted a casino and he was a retard

I'd rather be called a "retard" (your words) than an enabler of RV...

Oh wait, they are basically the same thing, aren't they? 

Thursday night happy hour with the man?

[UNTLifer]

1 hour ago, Dr. Seuss said:

I think you answered your own question.  One of the reasons why he probably couldnt put on a lot of weight in HS is because he played in a low level HS in Oklahoma.  Going to college should change that in a heartbeat.  

Again, I think we're trying to compare Fine to Patrick Mahomes or something.  

They're a lot of college qb's that are undersized.  Riley was injury prone in HS, so again, I think that's a bad comparison.  

But I understand why you're worried about his weight.  I just dont think its something to worry about, time will correct that.

Not sure I follow unless you are talking about a good strength program to put on lean weight, because I've seen big boys from small schools.

[Green P1]

3 hours ago, Hunter Green said:

Funny!

GO MEAN GREEN!

Srsly?

[UNT90]

19 minutes ago, Green P1 said:

Srsly?

Burns you up, don't it?

[Army of Dad]

2 hours ago, Dr. Seuss said:

I think you answered your own question.  One of the reasons why he probably couldnt put on a lot of weight in HS is because he played in a low level HS in Oklahoma.  Going to college should change that in a heartbeat.  

Again, I think we're trying to compare Fine to Patrick Mahomes or something.  

They're a lot of college qb's that are undersized.  Riley was injury prone in HS, so again, I think that's a bad comparison.  

But I understand why you're worried about his weight.  I just dont think its something to worry about, time will correct that.

Riley also played big school Texas football (equivalent to 5A today). Fine didn't face near as many large, fast guys in HS as Riley. That could partially account for different injury histories.

[flyonthewall]

1 hour ago, UNT90 said:

 

Thursday night happy hour with the man?

For the record,  I have never seen, heard or participated in a "happy hour" of drinking with rick villarreal, he doesn't frequent happy hours to my knowledge on a regular basis, and  I do.  Your insistence on this drinking buddy bit is an unfair implication. If you are using on the road before or after we win a basketball tournament we were all having fun. 

[GrayEagle]

I can see some concern about Fine's size; especially his weight.  He needs to be sturdy enough to take hits.  But, his speed is going to get him out of a lot of direct hits and hopefully, he will have a line to protect him from getting sacked.  

As to the size of his high school program, Locust Grove is comparable in size to Elkhart and I don't remember that much concern about Jeffrey Wilson playing at a small school.  If Mason's not for real, how was he able to dominate as no other has done before?

Two factor's that are being ignored are his desire to succeed and his intelligence.  He appears to have an exceptionally strong work ethic and an innate sense of what it takes to be successful.  He also appears to have had a great coach who prepared him both physically and mentally.  One thing that can't be known in rating a player is their heart.  I'd bet that if it could and were a significant factor that we'd be dealing with a four-star player.  

[keith]

The problem with height and weight numbers is you never know what to believe.  When I think of Fine coming out of high school, I'm reminded of another "undersized" QB that played for Boise State.   In 2007, Boise State listed recruit Kellen Moore (also a Gatorade player of the year for the state of Washington) as 6'1'' and 185 lbs.  In 2015, the Cowboys have him listed as 6'0" and 200 lbs.  I doubt that he shrunk an inch and only put on 15 pounds in eight years.   According to Kellen's mother he grew faster than his classmates but then stopped growing at 5'11'' when he was a sophomore in high school.  Moral of the story...everyone fudges these numbers.  The question is, are the number on Fine also fudged?    We have him listed as 5'10" and 170.  Does it matter?  If he can play and put up numbers for us anywhere close to what Kellen Moore did for Boise State, who cares.

In 4 years, Kellen led Boise State to a W-L record of 50-3 with the following stats:

Year	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yards	Y/A	TD	Int	Long	Rating
2008	281	405	69.4	3,486	8.6	25	10	80	157.1
2009	277	431	64.3	3,536	8.2	39	3	67	161.7
2010	273	383	71.3	3,845	10.0	36	6	83	182.6
2011	326	439	74.3	3,800	8.7	43	9	71	175.2

Not bad for an undersized QB coming out of high school.

    

[UNT90]

3 minutes ago, flyonthewall said:

For the record,  I have never seen, heard or participated in a "happy hour" of drinking with rick villarreal, he doesn't frequent happy hours to my knowledge on a regular basis, and  I do.  Your insistence on this drinking buddy bit is an unfair implication. If you are using on the road before or after we win a basketball tournament we were all having fun. 

Like in 2010? 6 years ago? Too bad you chose the wrong drinking buddy. Johnny Jones would have been much more appropriate. 

[flyonthewall]

Jones was a good drinking buddy.  He could pound the cold beer and crawfish.

[Cerebus]

5 hours ago, flyonthewall said:

I would rather be called a mofo any day than a jackass.......just saying

I KNEW you missed Dickey...

[flyonthewall]

I pretty sure I heard dickey use both, in addition to others 

[MeanGreenTexan]

27 minutes ago, flyonthewall said:

I pretty sure I heard dickey use both, in addition to others 

Oh, you were at the event he spoke at for the Scottish Rite Children's Hospital partnership with The Our Lady of the Ascension Nunnery too?  Boy, that was embarrassing.

[Dr. Seuss]

2 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

Not sure I follow unless you are talking about a good strength program to put on lean weight, because I've seen big boys from small schools.

Exactly.  I'm not saying that everyone from a small school is small.  They simply don't have the capital to build a strength program like the ones in college, same goes with college players going to the NFL. 

 

1 hour ago, Army of Dad said:

Riley also played big school Texas football (equivalent to 5A today). Fine didn't face near as many large, fast guys in HS as Riley. That could partially account for different injury histories.

I would agree.  He'll come in injury free(that I know of), red shirt and hopefully get to 190.  Completely different start than Riley

[MeanGreenTeeth]

It'll be interesting to see what happens for sure.  I saw Kyler Murray play a couple games for the Ags last year, and I was worried he was going to be broken in half (and he is bigger than Fine!).  You just never know though, he has great numbers, but it is a large step up.   I'm reminded that Tyler Ethridge couldn't even cut it at Angelo State and he was supposedly the greatest 6-man player to ever play the game.

[casual fan]

Riley Dodge injured his shoulder before he arrived at UNT.   He lacked arm strength but got the most out of what he had.

Fine, on one of his highlights, hit a guy a few yards deep in the end zone from his own 45. (around 60 yards in the air)

Short QBs with big arms can have success.  Doug Flutie (5'10") and Sonny Sixkiller (5'11" 171) come to mind.

Flutie and Sixkiller only had one D1 offer each because they were short. 

It can be done.

 

 

[Dr. Seuss]

2 hours ago, MeanGreenTeeth said:

It'll be interesting to see what happens for sure.  I saw Kyler Murray play a couple games for the Ags last year, and I was worried he was going to be broken in half (and he is bigger than Fine!).  You just never know though, he has great numbers, but it is a large step up.   I'm reminded that Tyler Ethridge couldn't even cut it at Angelo State and he was supposedly the greatest 6-man player to ever play the game.

I forgot about Kyler Murray isnt he under 6' and less than 200 lbs?

[Got5onIt]

Fine has a pretty decent arm. Riley did not. Riley did play Texas high school football at the highest level which makes the transition to college a helluva lot easier. This is my biggest worry regarding Fine. Low level football in OK to FBS level is a massive jump. The speed of the game  from high school to college is exponentially different. Redshirt, hard off seasons, run the practice squad, and maybe he'll be ready as a  redshirt sophomore or junior. 

Edited February 12, 2016 by Got5onIt

[Monkeypox]

Colt McCoy grew 3 magical inches from his recruitment at 5'10" to his making the first official roster at UT at 6'2", before shrinking some when he got to the Combine at 6'1".

Of course, he did get hurt. Of course, he was playing against better competition than we do. Of course, he also had top recruits all around him. Of course, I don't know where I'm going with any of this, except that I assume he'll redshirt.

[EagleMBA]

40 minutes ago, Got5onIt said:

Fine has a pretty decent arm. Riley did not. Riley did play Texas high school football at the highest level which makes the transition to college a helluva lot easier. This is my biggest worry regarding Fine. Low level football in OK to FBS level is a massive jump. The speed of the game  from high school to college is exponentially different. Redshirt, hard off seasons, run the practice squad, and maybe he'll be ready as a  redshirt sophomore or junior. 

The kid strikes me as having the smarts, guts and "want to" to make the transition...we'll see. I do think it would be ill-advised to burn his shirt this fall. I also think (and pray) that the position is covered for this coming season, allowing Fine to make the adjustment and grow physically and mentally into an FBS talent with four years of eligibility intact. This would allow us to recruit depth at QB in the next class and start a normal progression. JMHO.

[Got5onIt]

17 minutes ago, EagleMBA said:

The kid strikes me as having the smarts, guts and "want to" to make the transition...we'll see. I do think it would be ill-advised to burn his shirt this fall. I also think (and pray) that the position is covered for this coming season, allowing Fine to make the adjustment and grow physically and mentally into an FBS talent with four years of eligibility intact. This would allow us to recruit depth at QB in the next class and start a normal progression. JMHO.

Lots of kids are smart, lots of kids are hard workers, lots of kids have the drive.  However, you can't teach body type, size, & strength. You just cannot do it.  For college football, it all starts & ends there at all levels. Hell, it's what separates the D3, D2, FCS, & FBS levels of football. 

Now, I think Fine was worth taking a risk on. But he's a real project at this point. His starting line is already behind other incoming FBS  freshman. I read someone here has seen his parents and there doesn't appear to be a whole lot of room to grow. It's just the reality of the situation. I've been there and am very familiar with Fine's situation.....

Edited February 12, 2016 by Got5onIt

[foutsrouts]

49 minutes ago, Got5onIt said:

Lots of kids are smart, lots of kids are hard workers, lots of kids have the drive.  However, you can't teach body type, size, & strength. You just cannot do it.  For college football, it all starts & ends there at all levels. Hell, it's what separates the D3, D2, FCS, & FBS levels of football. 

Now, I think Fine was worth taking a risk on. But he's a real project at this point. His starting line is already behind other incoming FBS  freshman. I read someone here has seen his parents and there doesn't appear to be a whole lot of room to grow. It's just the reality of the situation. I've been there and am very familiar with Fine's situation.....

Parents alone don't necessarily limit size. I've seen it happen otherwise too many times. Even in my own extended family. 

6 hours ago, casual fan said:

Riley Dodge injured his shoulder before he arrived at UNT.   He lacked arm strength but got the most out of what he had.

Fine, on one of his highlights, hit a guy a few yards deep in the end zone from his own 45. (around 60 yards in the air)

Short QBs with big arms can have success.  Doug Flutie (5'10") and Sonny Sixkiller (5'11" 171) come to mind.

Flutie and Sixkiller only had one D1 offer each because they were short. 

It can be done.

 

 

Flutie is five ten in boots.

1 hour ago, Got5onIt said:

Fine has a pretty decent arm. Riley did not. Riley did play Texas high school football at the highest level which makes the transition to college a helluva lot easier. This is my biggest worry regarding Fine. Low level football in OK to FBS level is a massive jump. The speed of the game  from high school to college is exponentially different. Redshirt, hard off seasons, run the practice squad, and maybe he'll be ready as a  redshirt sophomore or junior. 

Agreed.

[casual fan]

Fine has the arm,  the foot speed, and understands the offense.

He's also a strong kid for his size and should be able to gain some weight.

A QB's height should be less of a concern than his skill and his arm.