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Big D

By Big D
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Got5onIt Experienced

Got5onIt

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Posted

I stated this in another thread but this recruiting class was never going to blow anyone away considering the state of the program at McCarney's departure and Litrell's short time to scramble together a group on signing day. His #1 priority for 2016 is to take the current roster and make them better. More wins will translate to more interest from recruits heading into 2017. 2016 is critical for the program's success going into the 2017 offseason and beyond.  The recruits will come when there's reason to come. Can Seth bring excitement to Denton? 

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Big D
Big D

I am pleased with the players the coaches signed given the amount of time they had to work  I think they ran their as-es off.  We ended up getting some players  who will end up as being very good

UNT90
UNT90

Ya! I mean we coulda gone from 128 to 118!!!  Look, this is what it is, a not good class filled with JUCOs. Not a good recruiting start for Littrell. The most we can hope for is the groundwork ha

NTAlum09
NTAlum09

Think about if he would of gotten a head start? At least SL isn't making excuses and connects with his recruits in a fun way. Suck it MAC

MeanGreen22 Grand Master

MeanGreen22

Posted
Posted (edited)

I know there are people underwhelmed by Coach Littrell's first class, but you have to remember (as if anyone has actually forgotten) we were 1-11 last year.  That's a tough sell for even a new coach.  With that in mind, lets compare Coach Mac's 2011-2015 recruiting classes to Littrell's 2016 class (all numbers taken from 247):

Mac:

2011: National 105th; CUSA 8th; Previous Year Record 3-9

2012: National 98th, CUSA 6th; Previous Year Record 5-7

2013:National 116th, CUSA 12th; Previous Year Record 4-8

2014: National 102th, CUSA 9th; Previous Year Record 9-4

2015: National 95th, CUSA 6th; Previous Year Record 4-8 *first real recruiting class after bowl win

Littrell:

2016: National 106th, CUSA 8th; Previous Year Record 1-11

 

So while they both managed to get about the same first class in terms of ranking, I'd say Littrell had a tougher sell than Mac did.  2011 was the opening of Apogee. Mac got to come in and sell this brand new stadium and new facilities.  I know it's not like Apogee is old but Littrell didn't have that luxury to wave brand new everything in front of a recruiting class. Also, if you add in Bryce English (which I do because he's basically a freshman) they actually end up closer to 7th in CUSA and 100th ish Nationally. (the formula is confusing and will take some time to work out the exact ranking change)

Littrell's first real recruiting class will be next year.  And I'll make wagers that he does better than Mac's 2012 class.  Come at me, bro.

 

 

Side Note: For people on Twitter, I find it funny how nUTSAck was so giddy about that "4*" corner to the point they were talking crap about UNT.. and still ended up behind us in the rankings.

 

Sorry for the long post. Here's a beast mode pic of Coach Lit:

GettyImages-494029.0.jpg

 

 

EDIT: 

I cheated and found a recruit about the same as Bryce was coming out of high school (which I found this recruit a strange one http://247sports.com/Player/Corey-Tipsword-76272).

But when I added him in using 247's handy dandy class calculator, it bumped us up to a score of 119.18.  Which is 100th nationally and 7th in CUSA.

So, there's that.

 

2nd EDIT:

Follow me on Twitter if you like seeing sports posts all day and more nerdy sports stats. 

@robwatson22

Edited by MeanGreen22
Added Bryce English addition
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NTAlum09 Newbie

NTAlum09

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, MeanGreen22 said:

I know there are people underwhelmed by Coach Littrell's first class, but you have to remember (as if anyone has actually forgotten) we were 1-11 last year.  That's a tough sell for even a new coach.  With that in mind, lets compare Coach Mac's 2011-2015 recruiting classes to Littrell's 2016 class (all numbers taken from 247):

Mac:

2011: National 105th; CUSA 8th; Previous Year Record 3-9

2012: National 98th, CUSA 6th; Previous Year Record 5-7

2013:National 116th, CUSA 12th; Previous Year Record 4-8

2014: National 102th, CUSA 9th; Previous Year Record 9-4

2015: National 95th, CUSA 6th; Previous Year Record 4-8 *first real recruiting class after bowl win

Littrell:

2016: National 106th, CUSA 8th; Previous Year Record 1-11

 

So while they both managed to get about the same first class in terms of ranking, I'd say Littrell had a tougher sell than Mac did.  2011 was the opening of Apogee. Mac got to come in and sell this brand new stadium and new facilities.  I know it's not like Apogee is old but Littrell didn't have that luxury to wave brand new everything in front of a recruiting class. Also, if you add in Bryce English (which I do because he's basically a freshman) they actually end up closer to 7th in CUSA and 100th ish Nationally. (the formula is confusing and will take some time to work out the exact ranking change)

Littrell's first real recruiting class will be next year.  And I'll make wagers that he does better than Mac's 2012 class.  Come at me, bro.

 

 

Side Note: For people on Twitter, I find it funny how nUTSAck was so giddy about that "4*" corner to the point they were talking crap about UNT.. and still ended up behind us in the rankings.

 

Sorry for the long post. Here's a beast mode pic of Coach Lit:

GettyImages-494029.0.jpg

 

 

EDIT: 

I cheated and found a recruit about the same as Bryce was coming out of high school (which I found this recruit a strange one http://247sports.com/Player/Corey-Tipsword-76272).

But when I added him in using 247's handy dandy class calculator, it bumped us up to a score of 119.18.  Which is 100th nationally and 7th in CUSA.

So, there's that.

 

2nd EDIT:

Follow me on Twitter if you like seeing sports posts all day and more nerdy sports stats. 

@robwatson22

Same I will put a wager on anyone that Littrell will out recruit Mac and won't be coming to practice drunk. Which I heard Mac was doing that last season.

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HarringtonFishSmeller Newbie

HarringtonFishSmeller

Posted
Posted
23 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

No way. UTSA's situation of talent is not worse than ours--not even close. When they can come up here, playing there 4th and 5th string QB, and only lose on a late TD, while not a god sign for them, it still shows how far behind we are to even them, talent-wise. If we had played them in San Antonio, we lose that game by two TDs, minimum.

I never thought I would type this in my life, but Ben Gooding is right. Seth Littrell took over the worst program in America, by a long shot. Hopefully, he knows what he has gotten into here. But to expect that he was going to walk into Texas HS coaches offices and sway people to UNT that had other offers for FBS schools was far-fetched, IMO. It appears that he got some decent players for the situation he inherited, but its going to take years to build up any kind of decent repoire with Texas HS coaches, partly because they don't know anything about him, partly because the recruits barely know who we are, and partly because the people who are aware of us only know us as colossal losers that are completely apathetic about football.

UTSA hired a guy who is basically Tony Benford as a football coach. Being LSU's lead recruiter, he has ties everywhere in Louisiana and SE Texas. Not to mention that they already had some recruits from Coker's staff. So they had a guy who could keep kids at UTSA and get some to come aboard. But its my belief, just as it has been with Benford, that recruiters usually make awful head coaches. UTSA will find this out, in time, which is why I feel better about our future than theirs. But that doesn't really raise the bar very high. Until Littrell can show that his schemes will work at this level and that he can be a successful head coach in the locker room and on the field, none of us can really be sure if he is the answer. I sure hope he is--I like the guy. He fits the part for what we need. But the reality that very, very few want to face is that, institutionally, there may just be too many hurdles to overcome here for him to turn it around. We have 4 winning season in 21 years of FBS play. We are near or at the bottom for recruiting HS talent in the state that produces a ton of college players. And our program is currently sitting at the absolute bottom of a deep pit. Hell, UAB didn't even play last year and they are way better off than we are right now, just to illustrate the current place we are sitting. All we can do is hope that Littrell has the ability to be what RV and Smatresk hope he can be as a head coach here, an din time, he will get us back to being a team with a chance at looking like 2013's team again. IF we use USM as a barometer, which I think is fair, 2018 is when we should expect to see that occur. But just as they saw, Monken's first year was a 1-win season. His next year, he got them up to 3 wins. By his third year, he got them up to winning CUSA West and being in the HoD Bowl. And that was such a great job of coaching, he got hired away--this time by an NFL team, not a P5 college. If everything works perfectly here for SL, this is probably what we will see happen. IF not, 2019 is probably it for him--unless he is Dodge-esque, in which case the UNT 17 will probably buy him out early, something we never had on our side until this year...

tumblr_o230tkmIYy1rw04ago1_500.jpg

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GrayEagle Veteran

GrayEagle

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 2/4/2016 at 7:04 AM, Mean_Green09 said:

10-12 difference makers is a bit much. 

Well, this is just opinion but here are the ones that I see as improving the team:

1. Bryce English - I believe that English will be a future UNT Hall-of-famer and as near to the second coming of Booger Kennedy as we'll see.

2. Will Johnson - This former 4* player should solve some developing linebacker problems.

3.  Nic Smith - A 3* from all but Rivals, Smith appears to have some of the best vision, instincts and cutting ability that I've seen on film.  He is the record-setter at Arlington Martin and likely sees the field as a true freshman.

4.  Ladarius Hamilton - This late addition has the size, speed and motor to really excel at LB or DE.  

5.  Cody Hayes - Former Texas Tech signee and all-conference TJC player at Navarro, I expect Hayes to start this fall.

6.  Rico Bussey - Bussey was one of the top receivers in Oklahoma; rated as high as #2.  Tall, fast and had the ability (in high school) to get open.  I'm pretty excited about this addition and I think that he may be the first freshman from this recruiting class to play.

7.  Alec Morris - I'm betting that Morris can shake off the rust and return to his old form that he had when he left Allen.  It was reported that he almost won the starting job at Alabama.  Instead of the #1 backup he was put on the third team because he was a senior.  You have to be pretty talented just to receive a scholarship from the #1 college program.

8.  T. J. Henson - Henson had seven other FBS offers and had chosen East Carolina over Iowa State et al before the coaching change there made him look toward us.  He could start or be a #1 backup these next two years.

9.  Josh Wheeler - An honorable mention NJCAA all-american who I see fitting in immediately.  He is a 3* weakside defensive end from Tyler JC.   

10.  Mason Fine -  This two-time Gatorade Player of the Year in Oklahoma has the experience to run this type of offense perhaps better than anyone.  He is smart (class validictorian) and fast (4.5 40).  He only lacks size.  If he grows another inch and adds 15 pounds and a little arm strength he will be ideal for this offense.

11.  Ejo Ejiya -  Another honorable mention NJCAA all-american who was the leading tackler on his team.  Could be the starting rover on this 4-2-5 defense.

12.  Chandler Anthony -  A Greater Oklahoma City all-star selection, this offensive tackle has the basic tools to be a force in the offensive line in a couple of years.  

Those are my choices to be factors in the development of Mean Green football.  I don't guarantee that all will be a tour-de-force but if one or two of these fall short who's to say that a couple that I didn't name could come to the forefront?  

Edited by GrayEagle
added phrases
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UNT90 Newbie

UNT90

Posted
Posted (edited)
On February 5, 2016 at 10:42 AM, GrayEagle said:

Well, this is just opinion but here are the ones that I see as improving the team:

1. Bryce English - I believe that English will be a future UNT Hall-of-famer and as near to the second coming of Booger Kennedy as we'll see.

2. Will Johnson - This former 4* player should solve some developing linebacker problems.

3.  Nic Smith - A 3* from all but Rivals, Smith appears to have some of the best vision, instincts and cutting ability that I've seen on film.  He is the record-setter at Arlington Martin and likely sees the field as a true freshman.

4.  Ladarius Hamilton - This late addition has the size, speed and motor to really excel at LB or DE.  

5.  Cody Hayes - Former Texas Tech signee and all-conference TJC player at Navarro, I expect Hayes to start this fall.

6.  Rico Bussey - Bussey was one of the top receivers in Oklahoma; rated as high as #2.  Tall, fast and had the ability (in high school) to get open.  I'm pretty excited about this addition and I think that he may be the first freshman from this recruiting class to play.

7.  Alec Morris - I'm betting that Morris can shake off the rust and return to his old form that he had when he left Allen.  It was reported that he almost won the starting job at Alabama.  Instead of the #1 backup he was put on the third team because he was a senior.  You have to be pretty talented just to receive a scholarship from the #1 college program.

8.  T. J. Henson - Henson had seven other FBS offers and had chosen East Carolina over Iowa State et al before the coaching change there made him look toward us.  He could start or be a #1 backup these next two years.

9.  Josh Wheeler - An honorable mention NJCAA all-american who I see fitting in immediately.  He is a 3* weakside defensive end from Tyler JC.   

10.  Mason Fine -  This two-time Gatorade Player of the Year in Oklahoma has the experience to run this type of offense perhaps better than anyone.  He is smart (class validictorian) and fast (4.5 40).  He only lacks size.  If he grows another inch and adds 15 pounds and a little arm strength he will be ideal for this offense.

11.  Ejo Ejiya -  Another honorable mention NJCAA all-american who was the leading tackler on his team.  Could be the starting rover on this 4-2-5 defense.

12.  Chandler Anthony -  A Greater Oklahoma City all-star selection, this offensive tackle has the basic tools to be a force in the offensive line in a couple of years.  

Those are my choices to be factors in the development of Mean Green football.  I don't guarantee that all will be a tour-de-force but if one or two of these fall short who's to say that a couple that I didn't name could come to the forefront?  

If you get three difference makers out of this group, you should be dancing in the streets! Just hope the rest are good enough to be an average starter or at least provide Quality depth.

@BillySee58 maybe you could tell us when the last time we had one recruiting class that produced 10 "difference makers?" Maybe guys that made any level of an all conference team? "Difference maker" is kind of an obscure term, so maybe we can tie it to all conference players at any level.

And this isn't a shot at Gray. Just curious as to which recruiting class turned out to be the best recruiting class in the last 20 years at UNT. My guess would be the Dickey class that Cerebus often references. 

Edited by UNT90
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TheReal_jayD Grand Master

TheReal_jayD

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, UNT90 said:

If you get three difference makers out of this group, you should be dancing in the streets! Just hope the rest are good enough to be an average starter or at least provide Quality depth.

@BillySee58 maybe you could tell us when the last time we had one recruiting class that produced 10 "difference makers?" Maybe guys that made any level of an all conference team? "Difference maker" is kind of an obscure term, so maybe we can tie it to all conference players at any level.

And this isn't a shot at Gray. Just curious as to which recruiting class turned out to be the best recruiting class in the last 20 years at UNT. My guess would be the Dickey class that Cerebus often references. 

2010 was pretty impressive 

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UNT90 Newbie

UNT90

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, TheReal_jayD said:

2010 was pretty impressive 

Just from memory, I count 3 all-conference players on the list (not sure about Y'Barbo, but I included him). There were a couple other solid contributors (Wright, Abbe for his senior season, Byrd, and Johnson). I don't really count deep snappers or kickers, as most programs get them as PWOs. 

And this is a historically good class at UNT. 

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Mean_Green09 Newbie

Mean_Green09

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Christopher Walker said:

Hey @BillySee58, @MeanGreen22, @Mean_Green09, maybe ya'll could explain this for me: why do recruiting sites not include the transfers, JUCOS, or the like? To me it would make sense to say "here's a school's personnel at Dec.7; here's that school's personnel at Feb.7. Let's rate the complete picture of additions."

Why doesn't that happen?

I don't have an official answer, but I'll talk about transfers. Transfers haven't been a major thing until recently.  Ever since Russell Wilson it seems like coaches are searching for grad transfers.

So recruiting has pretty much always been about HS players. So much of the scouting gurus these pay sites have focus solely on HS players. Every school recruits HS kids. Not every school recruits JUCOs or transfers. It's easier to focus on what all schools do. 

Just my opinion 

BillySee58 Grand Master

BillySee58

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Christopher Walker said:

Hey @BillySee58, @MeanGreen22, @Mean_Green09, maybe ya'll could explain this for me: why do recruiting sites not include the transfers, JUCOS, or the like? To me it would make sense to say "here's a school's personnel at Dec.7; here's that school's personnel at Feb.7. Let's rate the complete picture of additions."

Why doesn't that happen?

They do rate JUCOs. They're included in class ratings.

As for scholarship FBS transfers, it's just hard to rate most of those guys. A lot of those guys are transferring because of lack of playing time, so it's hard to rate a guy who really hasn't played a meaningful snap in a game since high school.

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BillySee58 Grand Master

BillySee58

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Christopher Walker said:

And yet a transfer is a starting QB in this Super Bowl.

The rating service that figures out an accurate way to assess the entire recruiting class will be gold.

He was a juco transfer and was rated a 5-star from Blinn. JUCOs are rated, including Newton and all of the JUCOs we got.

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/maple/95471

Again, it's just hard to rate a guy like Alec Morris who hasn't thrown a pass since high school. You can slap a player's old high school rating, but that might not be accurate for a guy like Anthony Wallace once he started playing college ball. What else do you use to rate from there? Practice film? That's what it usually comes down to, so it's just not very practical for FBS transfers.

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ChristopherRyanWilkes Enthusiast

ChristopherRyanWilkes

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

He was a juco transfer and was rated a 5-star from Blinn. JUCOs are rated, including Newton and all of the JUCOs we got.

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/maple/95471

Again, it's just hard to rate a guy like Alec Morris who hasn't thrown a pass since high school. You can slap a player's old high school rating, but that might not be accurate for a guy like Anthony Wallace once he started playing college ball. What else do you use to rate from there? Practice film? That's what it usually comes down to, so it's just not very practical for FBS transfers.

Wow, just noticed that says Cam was recruited by Seth Littrell. Would have been a nice one to add to his resume if he got him. 

Got5onIt Experienced

Got5onIt

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

He was a juco transfer and was rated a 5-star from Blinn. JUCOs are rated, including Newton and all of the JUCOs we got.

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/maple/95471

Again, it's just hard to rate a guy like Alec Morris who hasn't thrown a pass since high school. You can slap a player's old high school rating, but that might not be accurate for a guy like Anthony Wallace once he started playing college ball. What else do you use to rate from there? Practice film? That's what it usually comes down to, so it's just not very practical for FBS transfers.

 

I have a feeling the QB race is going to be really close between Morris & Smith.....

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