Grade the Littrell Hie V3 (Post NSD)

Side Show Joe · February 4, 2016

In the end this class is better then it was looking a week ago. For having to build a coaching staff and slap together this class quickly, I think he did a decent job. Littrell managed to out recruit the 3 other Texas teams in C-USA, but next February with a full season under his belt, we need to place higher in the recruiting rankings.

NT93 · February 4, 2016

40 minutes ago, eulessismore said:

Yep, I may have been too generous with an A-, but I think they worked hard and got players who can help us win.

True for me as well. Not too impressed with our recruiting class as a whole, but throw in the transfers and consider the timing of the hire, etc. and I think they did pretty good. It's going to be a long wait for Aug. to see how it all plays out on the field.

Edited February 4, 2016 by NT93

Army of Dad · February 4, 2016

1 hour ago, GoMeanGreen1999 said:

Agreed. I like some of the kids in this group and the social media stuff alone moves him up in my book. Every time I turn around I am seeing things I like out of this group. I am actually seeing the new coaches and staff out and around Denton. I don't understand a grade of less than a B.

So let's say this class ranks 9 or 10 out of 14. 9/14=B?

Dr. Seuss · February 4, 2016

7 hours ago, outoftown said:

Other than the lack of good QB recruiting, I would have to disagree. Yes 2013 and maybe also 2012 were horrible classes for mac. But 2014 was similar to this (more players, maybe less playmakers at the top) and 2015 was a better class than what we have in 2016 so far. We had 10 players that were rated 247 3*. Personally I think that 2015 class just came too late for Mac (plus all the stubborness etc issues). But this class has not merited praise through the roof yet. It is a lot better than it looked just a week ago. And I guess it is ok, given the late start. But it is heavy on JuCos and not rated any higher than the last two classes. We might be feeling its tiny high school size 3-5 seasons from now.

You have to go heavy Juco. As you just said, Macs 2012 and 2013 classes were horrible... Guess who's supposed to lead this team?

Just because you have more 3* recruits doesn't mean you have a better class. Look at this team last year. Your safeties were your leading tacklers, that's not good. Our linebackers were terrible and they addressed that issue with 2 big linebackers, one juco and one hs. I don't think you can ask more from a coaching staff than that in a month.

And a tiny high school?? Tonight, I was talking to Brelan and Trice. I'm 5'5 and they're just a couple inches taller than me. We've never been a big program.

eulessismore · February 4, 2016

6 hours ago, meangreenbob said:

Agree.

meangreenbob, that's the shortest post I can remember from you, and yes, I also agree.

outoftown · February 4, 2016

8 hours ago, Dr. Seuss said:

And a tiny high school?? Tonight, I was talking to Brelan and Trice. I'm 5'5 and they're just a couple inches taller than me. We've never been a big program.

I meant tiny in terms of number of high school players (theere are simply too few of them), not in terms of their height and weight. I feel those are just fine with me in all those skill positions. Not that we couldn't use more big boys on the lines, but everyone could.

Edited February 4, 2016 by outoftown

Dr. Seuss · February 4, 2016

24 minutes ago, outoftown said:

I meant tiny in terms of number of high school players (theere are simply too few of them), not in terms of their height and weight. I feel those are just fine with me in all those skill positions. Not that we couldn't use more big boys on the lines, but everyone could.

Look at the big picture. The minor details shouldn't overlook the quality of players that we're getting; Quality > Quantity.

GoMeanGreen1999 · February 4, 2016

9 hours ago, Army of Dad said:

So let's say this class ranks 9 or 10 out of 14. 9/14=B?

To me, the first recruiting class in a small part of the overall rating of the hire. To finish that high in conference with as little time as he had to me is pretty good. It would be one thing if the previous staff had been making good inroads with high school coaches across the area and state but from what people alude to around here it doesn't sound like it. Maybe Littrell ends up being a TD like hire when it's all said and done - but for now, with everything I have seen and am seeing, I think the hire should be at least a B of some sort.

Army of Dad · February 4, 2016

6 minutes ago, GoMeanGreen1999 said:

To me, the first recruiting class in a small part of the overall rating of the hire. To finish that high in conference with as little time as he had to me is pretty good. It would be one thing if the previous staff had been making good inroads with high school coaches across the area and state but from what people alude to around here it doesn't sound like it. Maybe Littrell ends up being a TD like hire when it's all said and done - but for now, with everything I have seen and am seeing, I think the hire should be at least a B of some sort.

You said you couldn't understand a grade lower than a B. Turning in a recruiting class that is kind of small with low numbers of HS recruits and ranked (for what that's worth) in the bottom third of the conference could reasonably be considered less than B level work.

ChristopherRyanWilkes · February 4, 2016

Can I go ahead and grade the Mike Ekeler hire: A+.

Seems to me he personally recruited a lot of the recruits we have on defense which was a majority of this class. He was more than likely responsible for getting our best recruit in here in Johnson. I know certain coaches just have a gift for the gab, which he does, but I also think he really has something. All indication from Georgia were that he was a great coach and I think we may have gotten a huge steal in hiring him. Time will tell but I think the defense will be vastly improved this season.

Mean_Green09 · February 4, 2016

2 minutes ago, ChristopherRyanWilkes said:

Can I go ahead and grade the Mike Ekeler hire: A+.

Seems to me he personally recruited a lot of the recruits we have on defense which was a majority of this class. He was more than likely responsible for getting our best recruit in here in Johnson. I know certain coaches just have a gift for the gab, which he does, but I also think he really has something. All indication from Georgia were that he was a great coach and I think we may have gotten a huge steal in hiring him. Time will tell but I think the defense will be vastly improved this season.

Just seems like a guy who will sit in your home on the couch and be genuine with you. He keeps it real no gimmicks or gadgets. A lot of kids enjoy that. Just look at what Charlie Strong did.

MeanGreenTexan · February 4, 2016

13 minutes ago, ChristopherRyanWilkes said:

Can I go ahead and grade the Mike Ekeler hire: A+.

Seems to me he personally recruited a lot of the recruits we have on defense which was a majority of this class. He was more than likely responsible for getting our best recruit in here in Johnson. I know certain coaches just have a gift for the gab, which he does, but I also think he really has something. All indication from Georgia were that he was a great coach and I think we may have gotten a huge steal in hiring him. Time will tell but I think the defense will be vastly improved this season.

You can, but I'm still very very skeptical. His defense was terrible at Indiana (recall, his defense was the one Lance Dunbar torched for almost 300 yds in 2011). We'll see. I'm glad Reffert is here to provide him some help.

ChristopherRyanWilkes · February 4, 2016

Just now, MeanGreenTexan said:

You can, but I'm still very very skeptical. His defense was terrible at Indiana (recall, his defense was the one Lance Dunbar torched for almost 300 yds in 2011). We'll see. I'm glad Reffert is here to provide him some help.

I know, I was very skeptical too, but just as far as what we have to go on so far (recruiting), I think he basically salvaged this class for us. It literally can't get any worse than Cosh, I hope. Having a Defensive Coordinator who actually recruits is a nice change.

MeanGreenHoops · February 4, 2016

I struggled giving a rating but went B-. Here are some things I think I've learned from following this year while comparing to the other new staffs.

In a new staff situation recruiting comes down to, how many guys were already being recruited when you got the job (that is clearly a major disadvantage to Littrell as Mac appeared to leave him with nothing as @Harry said.

And, how well connected the coach and staff are in the new area they are going to recruit and/or how many of the guys they were recruiting at their previous stop could they flip. This also was clearly a disadvantage.

Those two points make it kind of a much worse hire because of the situation we are in, which is not good. Both of those factors are going to make it harder for Litrell.

It comes down to this me, the hire will be made by the next year. One of two things have to happen. As @BillySee58 said, the work they did this year (which does seem to be good) pays offs, or if the staff wins games much more this year on the field, one of those has to lead to a better recruiting class. If either the work this year or the results on the field next year lead to a top 3 class then the hire has a chance.

I don't mean to say it's too early to grade, I mean to say the hire so far hasn't paid off based on what I learned about recruiting. It made it harder for this class to surprise.

I went B- because I think they could be a good staff, but those things I mentioned I learned are making it harder for them.

Aldo · February 4, 2016

11 hours ago, Army of Dad said:

So let's say this class ranks 9 or 10 out of 14. 9/14=B?

If you're looking at the cumulative score ranking (which is what puts us there) for 17 recruits, yeah it's bottom tier.

But, look at the average and it puts us middle-of-the-pack. If we had a full class, our cumulative ranking would put us at average.

Now I wouldn't say that is better than B, but at least it makes us more competitive athletically on paper. In other words, we're bringing in CUSA-level talent.

The 2017 recruiting class is the chance we'll have to legitimately overreact one way or the other.

Army of Dad · February 4, 2016

3 minutes ago, Aldo said:

If you're looking at the cumulative score ranking (which is what puts us there) for 17 recruits, yeah it's bottom tier.

But, look at the average and it puts us middle-of-the-pack. If we had a full class, our cumulative ranking would put us at average.

Now I wouldn't say that is better than B, but at least it makes us more competitive athletically on paper. In other words, we're bringing in CUSA-level talent.

The 2017 recruiting class is the chance we'll have to legitimately overreact one way or the other.

I think you could argue for a B, but less than that would also be reasonable.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Army of Dad

HarringtonFishSmeller · February 4, 2016

18 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

QB worries for the future. Lack of a defensive identity (we have no idea what we're running... assuming a 4-2-5). The inaugural class so far is still in the bottom half of the conference (I understand the short timeframe and the 1-11 record to overcome). Not a peep from him regarding Kidsey (this could be directed from RV, but if it's not, it almost seems cowardly).

Still a B. Not a failing grade, I don't think he sucks, but falling in line with a curve. I was very excited at first when he was hired, I think because it resulted in a cleaned house and a ton of optimism. That optimism is still there, but so is much of the mess.

This is where I am. Gave C+ again. It's just what I expected. The splashiest things to happen were the transfers from Alabama and K-State.

JUCOs? I'm long enough in the tooth to not celebrate their signings until they are actually eligible and on campus. Signing an LOI is one thing, keeping up academically for another three/four months is another with JUCO guys.

To me, we got nothing at QB past the transfer. After he goes, we're in the same boat as before - no QB. And, yes...I fully understand that some of you believe Fine is a QB. That's...fine. I really, really have doubts, though, about guys who were barely getting FCS sniffs. D-II material all the way.

Like McCarney and the DL, QB is a position where I expected Littrell and Harrell to be able to pull a kid out due to their supposed "connections" and their history with Texas Tech offenses, plus North Carolina's good season. The Texas Tech thing was obviously overblown (as are most Texas Tech things...but, that's a discussion for another day). And, most kids in these here parts probably couldn't find North Carolina on a map, much less tell you how their football team was doing.

Alas, then, like McCarney's inability to land DTs, it looks as though these guy don't have the pull at a key position that everyone thought they would.

Without QB...

GoMeanGreen1999 · February 5, 2016

10 hours ago, Army of Dad said:

You said you couldn't understand a grade lower than a B. Turning in a recruiting class that is kind of small with low numbers of HS recruits and ranked (for what that's worth) in the bottom third of the conference could reasonably be considered less than B level work.

True. I read the poll to say overall of the hire and not just recruiting.

Army of Dad · February 5, 2016

1 minute ago, GoMeanGreen1999 said:

True. I read the poll to say overall of the hire and not just recruiting.

Yep, but the recruiting results are the only tangible results we have for now so I could see where some may weight them heavily.

southsideguy · February 5, 2016

c+, I am a though grader but if the season is successful I will give him extra credit.

My only knock so far on the guy is his communication skills. He had a lot of people at the NSD event and he could have used it to pump up the crowd a little. Sell the program, as a head coach you will need the skill. Granted he wins this is not as important. Anyone heard how the team is accepting the new staff or have they had any contact?

VideoEagle · February 5, 2016

North Texas Toastmasters, meets Mondays roughtly noon to 1 in a conference room in Crumley Hall.

I would recommend Toastmasters to ANYONE who makes presentations, even just to their own company.

MeanGreenTexan · February 5, 2016

2 hours ago, southsideguy said:

c+, I am a though grader but if the season is successful I will give him extra credit.

My only knock so far on the guy is his communication skills. He had a lot of people at the NSD event and he could have used it to pump up the crowd a little. Sell the program, as a head coach you will need the skill. Granted he wins this is not as important. Anyone heard how the team is accepting the new staff or have they had any contact?

Boy, do I have just the guy for you: