UNT is Now a Carnegie Doctoral University: Highest Research Activity (R1)

Ben Gooding · February 2, 2016

19 minutes ago, oldguystudent said:

A glaring difference I'm seeing between UNT and the "Tier 1" schools (or more accurately, the top 100 in USN&WR) is acceptance rate. UNT is at 62%. It needs to shave about 20-25 points off that. This isn't a place that kids are competing to get into just yet.

I agree with this, but...

TWU - 88%

So Miss - 66.7

UTEP - 100%

UTSA - 75.9

UH - 63%

Louisiana Tech - 65%

Arkansas State - 63%

MTSU - 70%

ATM - 69%

ODU - 81.9%

WKU - 92.3%

Marshall - 79.8%

etc.

I know that there are a lot of other variables that are involved in determining acceptance rate other than just flat out percentages, but we sit at a decent acceptance rate with obvious room to improve the level of student we are bringing in.

JRock · February 2, 2016

Cerebus · February 3, 2016

1 hour ago, oldguystudent said:

A glaring difference I'm seeing between UNT and the "Tier 1" schools (or more accurately, the top 100 in USN&WR) is acceptance rate. UNT is at 62%. It needs to shave about 20-25 points off that. This isn't a place that kids are competing to get into just yet.

One of the big knocks on USN&WR gets is they use some weird ass metrics. Why is acceptance rate important? Since NT has a lower rate than Texas A&M does that make us a better school? Why are HS Guidance Councillor opinions in the rankings? How many of them are actually experts on judging quality of universities? Top 10 percent acceptance rate is pretty quirky too, not all HSs are equal, someone in the top 20 of particular school might much more accomplished than someone in the Top 5 of another school. Alumni giving rate? Why does how effective a school is at getting donations from students a reflection on the quality of education?

oldguystudent · February 3, 2016

3 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

One of the big knocks on USN&WR gets is they use some weird ass metrics. Why is acceptance rate important? Since NT has a lower rate than Texas A&M does that make us a better school? Why are HS Guidance Councillor opinions in the rankings? How many of them are actually experts on judging quality of universities? Top 10 percent acceptance rate is pretty quirky too, not all HSs are equal, someone in the top 20 of particular school might much more accomplished than someone in the Top 5 of another school. Alumni giving rate? Why does how effective a school is at getting donations from students a reflection on the quality of education?

Be it perception or reality, it's a stat that aspiring high school students use as a metric to how competitive a school is. Kinda like how a winning football program doesn't make academics better, but it surely attracts more applicants, and therefore allows the university to select a higher caliber of student.

Cerebus · February 3, 2016

1 minute ago, oldguystudent said:

Be it perception or reality, it's a stat that aspiring high school students use as a metric to how competitive a school is.

Well they are both pretty bad metrics to use to decide what college to attend. If someone wants to, it's a free country.

PS: Someone tell aTm we have surpassed them and never really cared about the stupid AAU membership anyway.

oldguystudent · February 3, 2016

Just now, Cerebus said:

Well they are both pretty bad metrics to use to decide what college to attend. If someone wants to, it's a free country.

PS: Someone tell aTm we have surpassed them and never really cared about the stupid AAU membership anyway.

Well, let's take it to the other extreme. What is your perception of the student body of UTEP given its 100% acceptance rate?

Cerebus · February 3, 2016

7 minutes ago, oldguystudent said:

Well, let's take it to the other extreme. What is your perception of the student body of UTEP given its 100% acceptance rate?

That their president set a goal to educate as many people as possible, and changed the policy to accept every applicant. I'm cheating btw, this was discussed in academic circles when it happened, it was controversial.

Now, what is your perception of the NT and aTm student bodies, given that NT has a lower acceptance rate?

oldguystudent · February 3, 2016

Just now, Cerebus said:

Now, what is your perception of the NT and aTm student bodies, given that NT has a lower acceptance rate?

I'm actually surprised at the ATM stat. I thought it was a destination campus in TX. UT is in the 30s and Rice is in the teens.

ChristopherRyanWilkes · February 3, 2016

5 minutes ago, oldguystudent said:

I'm actually surprised at the ATM stat. I thought it was a destination campus in TX. UT is in the 30s and Rice is in the teens.

This is skewed because of how many auto-admits both UT and A&M get from the top 10% or 7% at UT.

Harry · February 3, 2016

We've gone through this before but acceptance rate comparison between two institutions means nothing if you can't compare the academics and resume of applicants who have applied.

MeanGreenTexan · February 3, 2016

3 hours ago, ChristopherRyanWilkes said:

@Cerebus

Not to discuss Tier One any further but the official UNT press release title is "UNT among Tier One research universities." Haha.

https://research.unt.edu/carnegie-classification-lists-unt-among-tier-one-research-universities-latest-report/?homepage=1

Wow. I didn't know Capper's reach was that far.

ChristopherRyanWilkes · February 3, 2016

1 minute ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Wow. I didn't know Capper's reach was that far.

It isn't incorrect in my opinion. Basically articulates what I was trying to say earlier.

"Tier One status is defined, in part, by how a university ranks in the Carnegie Classification, which is a leading framework for measuring institutional characteristics.

This achievement is commonly considered the most significant step in the evolution of a research university and marks a key milestone in UNT’s commitment toward national prominence, UNT President Neal Smatresk said."

TheWestie · February 3, 2016

oldguystudent · February 3, 2016

No hidden agenda in the following question:

In what areas has UNT excelled in research to achieve this status?

I am quite honestly completely out of the loop once we set foot out of the accounting department, so I have no idea in what areas UNT excels save teaching and music.

foutsrouts · February 3, 2016

7 minutes ago, oldguystudent said:

No hidden agenda in the following question:

In what areas has UNT excelled in research to achieve this status?

I am quite honestly completely out of the loop once we set foot out of the accounting department, so I have no idea in what areas UNT excels save teaching and music.

I don't know how we rank currently, but when I was in school we excelled in accounting as well. We were pretty much considered a top ten program nationally for quite a few years.

With the nice new business facility, I've never quite understood why our business school seems to be stuck in the mud while others around us have made major advances. RV's fault?

physics90 · February 3, 2016

25 minutes ago, oldguystudent said:

No hidden agenda in the following question:

In what areas has UNT excelled in research to achieve this status?

I am quite honestly completely out of the loop once we set foot out of the accounting department, so I have no idea in what areas UNT excels save teaching and music.

This Tier "excellence" is measured in grant dollars. Research reputations are created by the number of top investigators a university has. UT started its push for a national reputation in the early 1970's, "buying" Nobel laureates like Weinberg in physics.

UNT is definitely less well regarded than NTSU was. Too many science graduate programs have dumbed down their curricala. Starting in 2000, I started seeing undergraduate textbooks being used for graduate level courses, something that never happened before. Getting this new Tier status symbol will not help attract the best students in DFW or Texas.

oldguystudent · February 3, 2016

22 minutes ago, foutsrouts said:

I don't know how we rank currently, but when I was in school we excelled in accounting as well. We were pretty much considered a top ten program nationally for quite a few years.

With the nice new business facility, I've never quite understood why our business school seems to be stuck in the mud while others around us have made major advances. RV's fault?

Note in the sentence prior to the one you bolded that I graduated from the accounting program. I'm aware of its status. Thought now that I've got a few years under my belt working, I wish they'd be a little more practical and a lot less theoretical, but that's just frustration venting with how we have to train interns to tie their shoes each and every year.

Censored by Laurie · February 3, 2016

1 hour ago, physics90 said:

This Tier "excellence" is measured in grant dollars. Research reputations are created by the number of top investigators a university has. UT started its push for a national reputation in the early 1970's, "buying" Nobel laureates like Weinberg in physics.

UNT is definitely less well regarded than NTSU was. Too many science graduate programs have dumbed down their curricala. Starting in 2000, I started seeing undergraduate textbooks being used for graduate level courses, something that never happened before. Getting this new Tier status symbol will not help attract the best students in DFW or Texas.

so...you don't think we'll become the joule of the metroplex now?

forevereagle · February 3, 2016

16 hours ago, oldguystudent said:

AAU has 62 members. Considerably more exclusive. Membership is by invitation only.

16 hours ago, Cerebus said:

I don't know specifically if NT is looking into AAU membership. That is a tough nut to crack. Only sixty universities in the US and 3 in Texas (Rice, UT, aTm) are members.

I do know NT is pursuing a Phi Beta Kappa chapter. I know that NT Libraries had a master plan which included seeking membership in ARL, but I don't know if those plans were put into action or are just conceptional at this stage.

Thank you for the response. Hopefully we are working towards some of these other things so that AAU gets in play. I know that would be a major feather in our cap if we can achieve it. Sounds like some of these other things would be great adds to the prestige of the university.

TheWestie · February 4, 2016

15 hours ago, oldguystudent said:

No hidden agenda in the following question:

In what areas has UNT excelled in research to achieve this status?

I am quite honestly completely out of the loop once we set foot out of the accounting department, so I have no idea in what areas UNT excels save teaching and music.

We got this guy on board.

https://facultyinfo.unt.edu/faculty-profile?query=Richard+Dixon&type=name&profile=rad0169

Take a long scroll through the "RESEARCH" tab on his profile.

North Texas Shep · February 4, 2016

9 hours ago, TheWestie said:

We got this guy on board.

https://facultyinfo.unt.edu/faculty-profile?query=Richard+Dixon&type=name&profile=rad0169

Take a long scroll through the "RESEARCH" tab on his profile.

So yeah... He is a complete badass.

greenit · February 4, 2016

Hopefully, the university can leverage this news, along with other changes that are impacting academic standards, to push UNT into the top tier ranking for USN&WR. Every little bit helps.

dmaxel · February 4, 2016

I also really hope that Smatresk has a plan for getting the endowment up to $400 million. We're way behind in that regard. UTD was in the same position but they've been increasing their endowment like crazy and recently passed the $400 million mark. UNT has $3,851.63 endowment per student and UTD has $16,656.06 endowment per student. And that's ignoring the endowment that the UT System (yes, the system, not UT Austin) has.

Edit: At least we're doing better than UT Arlington, which has $3,533.06 endowment per student. But UTSA is beating us with $4,366.11 endowment per student.

Edited February 4, 2016 by dmaxel

keith · February 4, 2016

What if we, as a University, just say that we self-identify as a Tier 1 University? Would that work?

I believe we need to tighten up our acceptance rate, but not for a specific acceptance rate number. The more important numbers, IMHO, are freshman retention % and 4-year graduation %. UNT suffers in these metrics because of our acceptance rate. Tighten that up and these other two will improve.