Littrell's recruiting strategy going forward

GMG24 · January 29, 2016

I would like to see us pull a few good players from the Oklahoma, Louisiana, Mississippi area. I would like these players to be OL/DL type guys, or the generic term athlete. I would like to see 70 % or more of our classes coming from TX HS ranks. Chad Morris and Tom Hermann have done it quickly at both their schools and there is no excuse UNT can't do the same thing. While I know Morris has more $ to work with and a cool helicopter, they dominate social media. I have been pleased with the staffs evaluation of kids so far, and while I know you can't win a ton of games with guys who have no other D1 offers. I believe the guys we have targeted aren't the typical I have no D1 offers. Excuse? Sure, but I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Sure, it may come back to bite me in the rear when someone brings this thread up if he isn't successful. However, I really don't see us NOT competing in and winning 3-5 games next season.

MeanGreen22 · January 29, 2016

Players don't win games, coaches do. Alabama routinely has top recruiting classes, but without Nick Saban they wouldn't be in the place they are now. Look at Mack Brown at Texas. Top 5 classes every year, 1 championship in 2 appearances.

Bottom line: If Littrell is a great coach, we'll win games next year, regardless of the amount of starts the recruiting class ends up with.

Edited January 29, 2016 by MeanGreen22

unt_rocket09 · January 29, 2016

1 hour ago, MeanGreen22 said:

Players don't win games, coaches do. Alabama routinely has top recruiting classes, but without Nick Saban they wouldn't be in the place they are now. Look at Mack Brown at Texas. Top 5 classes every year, 1 championship in 2 appearances.

Bottom line: If Littrell is a great coach, we'll win games next year, regardless of the amount of starts the recruiting class ends up with.

False. False. False. Talent usually wins over coaching. This isn't the nfl where all is equal. It's jimmies and joes and if you don't believe that then you sir are an idiot.

greenminer · January 29, 2016

1 hour ago, MeanGreen22 said:

Players don't win games, coaches do. Alabama routinely has top recruiting classes, but without Nick Saban they wouldn't be in the place they are now. Look at Mack Brown at Texas. Top 5 classes every year, 1 championship in 2 appearances.

Bottom line: If Littrell is a great coach, we'll win games next year, regardless of the amount of starts the recruiting class ends up with.

you could plug GMG.com's own Andrew into 'bama's football HC position and they would be top 5.

Don't let Mack's failures diminish the value of recruits. Austin's football program is a mess.

GMG24 · January 29, 2016

1 hour ago, MeanGreen22 said:

Players don't win games, coaches do. Alabama routinely has top recruiting classes, but without Nick Saban they wouldn't be in the place they are now. Look at Mack Brown at Texas. Top 5 classes every year, 1 championship in 2 appearances.

Bottom line: If Littrell is a great coach, we'll win games next year, regardless of the amount of starts the recruiting class ends up with.

I am not even worried about stars etc, I am just talking basic recruiting. I think we can win games next year regardless of this class, but over time you can only do so much as a coach if the other team has better athletes at every position.

VideoEagle · January 29, 2016

6 minutes ago, greenminer said:

you could plug GMG.com's own Andrew into 'bama's football HC position and they would be top 5.

Don't let Mack's failures diminish the value of recruits. Austin's football program is a mess.

Well, sort of. Mike Shula is probably a better coach than Andrew and he certainly didn't do well with multiple A and A- rated recruiting classes as the Alabama coach.

Better athletes make life a lot easier for the coaching staff, but a good staff that knows how to develop players can often beat a more athletic team. See Boise, Baylor at the start of Briles era, Bill Snyder when he first came back, the first years of Bob Stoops and many more.

I just re-read the Coach Littrell hiring announcement and there is far, far more written about how he developed players and coaching schemes than how he can recruit.

GOMG2013 · January 29, 2016

1 hour ago, MeanGreen22 said:

Look at Mack Brown at Texas. Top 5 classes every year, 1 championship in 2 appearances.

Bottom line: If Littrell is a great coach, we'll win games next year, regardless of the amount of starts the recruiting class ends up with.

UT has talent issues. Forget those recruiting sites that rate a recruit 3, 4 or 5 stars based on if Texas offered them. The NFL draft the last few years has been a true indicator of where UTs talent level has been.

As fat as littrell, I agree. A good coach can be a difference at a mid major. If Littrell can't win at least 4 or 5 games in CUSA next year, he may not be a good coach. Even D1AA & D2 talent and a good coaching staff can beat some G5 schools.

MeanGreen22 · January 29, 2016

53 minutes ago, unt_rocket09 said:

False. False. False. Talent usually wins over coaching. This isn't the nfl where all is equal. It's jimmies and joes and if you don't believe that then you sir are an idiot.

If talent won games, Ohio State would've won every game this year by 50. Coaches put players in the position to succeed. You know what the difference can be between a 2 and 3 star recruit? How good their coaching was.

8 minutes ago, GOMG2013 said:

UT has talent issues. Forget those recruiting sites that rate a recruit 3, 4 or 5 stars based on if Texas offered them. The NFL draft the last few years has been a true indicator of where UTs talent level has been.

As fat as littrell, I agree. A good coach can be a difference at a mid major. If Littrell can't win at least 4 or 5 games in CUSA next year, he may not be a good coach. Even D1AA & D2 talent and a good coaching staff can beat some G5 schools.

That's exactly my point. It doesn't matter what they're rated going into college, it's about what they're rated when they're leaving. Coaching is what makes the difference. Good coaches improve players, bad coaches don't.

unt_rocket09 · January 29, 2016

Wow Ohio St lost 1 game in 2 years.....talent doesn't matter. Is this real life?

GOMG2013 · January 29, 2016

Let's not even discuss teams like bama and OSU. It's silly. Only one team can win a ship every year. Doesn't mean the other 100+ teams all suck.

Talent definetly matters. In 2013 we won 9 games. We had more talent than most of the teams we played. I can't think of any situation where UNT has won a game against a team with more talent. Rice had equal talent in 2013, and I consider that the best coaching I have seen at UNT the last 4 years.

UNT has lost a lot of games where the talent level was equal or even worse than UNT. And that is the sign of a bad coaching staff. A good coaching staff could have had that 2013 team at 11-2, 12-1?

A good coaching staff can only bump the talent level up so far. From below average to average...average to good...good to great...great to best. A good coach isn't going to get a below average player to good.

BillySee58 · January 29, 2016

1 hour ago, VideoEagle said:

Well, sort of. Mike Shula is probably a better coach than Andrew and he certainly didn't do well with multiple A and A- rated recruiting classes as the Alabama coach.

I don't know what recruiting site you're referencing rates classes on a letter scale, but from 2002-2006 Alabama's class rankings on Rivals were 30th, 49th, 24th, 18th, and 11th. He started bringing in better classes as he went along, but those good classes weren't old enough to make a difference until Saban arrived.

MeanGreen22 · January 29, 2016

I guess y'all are right. There are nothing but 5 star recruits in the NFL.

Texas Stranger · January 29, 2016

3 hours ago, GMG24 said:

Chad Morris and Tom Hermann have done it quickly at both their schools and there is no excuse UNT can't do the same thing.

What has Chad Morris actually done yet? Beat NT? They had a harder time doing that than anyone else on our schedule last year (other than UTSA, of course). I've seen nothing there that impresses me yet.

MeanGreenTexan · January 29, 2016

4 minutes ago, MeanGreen22 said:

I guess y'all are right. There are nothing but 5 star recruits in the NFL.

Also, there are only 4 Mean Green players on active NFL rosters... none of whom were drafted. The point remains, UNT must recruit better.

GMG24 · January 29, 2016

3 minutes ago, Texas Stranger said:

What has Chad Morris actually done yet? Beat NT? They had a harder time doing that than anyone else on our schedule last year (other than UTSA, of course). I've seen nothing there that impresses me yet.

http://smu.247sports.com/Season/2016-Football/Commits

You wouldn't like that list here?

Mean_Green09 · January 29, 2016

1 hour ago, unt_rocket09 said:

Wow Ohio St lost 1 game in 2 years.....talent doesn't matter. Is this real life?

Talent does matter, but so does the man shopping for the groceries. Ohio St aint only losing 1 game in 2 years without Urban.

NT93 · January 29, 2016

3 hours ago, MeanGreen22 said:

Players don't win games, coaches do. Alabama routinely has top recruiting classes, but without Nick Saban they wouldn't be in the place they are now. Look at Mack Brown at Texas. Top 5 classes every year, 1 championship in 2 appearances.

Bottom line: If Littrell is a great coach, we'll win games next year, regardless of the amount of starts the recruiting class ends up with.

Ever heard the quote, "It's the Jimmy's and Joe's, not the X's and O's."?

My theory has always been that there are about 10% of coaches who will win anywhere, 10% of coaches who can't win anywhere, and 80% of coaches will have success/failure based on their athletes.

Bottom line is that's it's a combination of coach/talent. Saban ain't winning national titles at UNT same as Bama ain't winning them with McCarney as coach.

Edited January 29, 2016 by NT93

HarringtonFishSmeller · January 29, 2016

45 minutes ago, Texas Stranger said:

What has Chad Morris actually done yet? Beat NT? They had a harder time doing that than anyone else on our schedule last year (other than UTSA, of course). I've seen nothing there that impresses me yet.

Nothing. Same level of recruits as last year as well. Not getting anywhere near the level of recruits Jones was getting during their bowl run.

1 hour ago, unt_rocket09 said:

Wow Ohio St lost 1 game in 2 years.....talent doesn't matter. Is this real life?

No. This is GMG.com where we pretend that getting prospects without offers from FBS schools is somehow equivalent to getting prospects with offers, player for player, all 85 on the roster.

And, we pretend that Shula was landing the same recruits as Alabama that Saban does.

There's much pretending here...real life? Not so much.

Edited January 29, 2016 by HarringtonFishSmeller

Withers940 · January 29, 2016

3 hours ago, MeanGreen22 said:

Players don't win games, coaches do. Alabama routinely has top recruiting classes, but without Nick Saban they wouldn't be in the place they are now. Look at Mack Brown at Texas. Top 5 classes every year, 1 championship in 2 appearances.

Bottom line: If Littrell is a great coach, we'll win games next year, regardless of the amount of starts the recruiting class ends up with.

Went to the National Championship twice and won once (Twice in 5 years). Thats pretty damn good considering that only two teams can go each year. The man worked his team to finish in the top two of the Big 12 from 1998-2009 and thats an accomplish on its own. I am by no means a Longhorn homer, in fact, I despise the longhorns but you cannot deny his accomplishments. In his last year at TU, he finished 2nd in the Big 12. Finished with a 158-48 record. Check out the other continual Top 10 recruiting classes and see how they have faired. Notre Dame is a good example

MeanGreen22 · January 29, 2016

31 minutes ago, NT93 said:

Ever heard the quote, "It's the Jimmy's and Joe's, not the X's and O's."?

My theory has always been that there are about 10% of coaches who will win anywhere, 10% of coaches who can't win anywhere, and 80% of coaches will have success/failure based on their athletes.

Bottom line is that's it's a combination of coach/talent. Saban ain't winning national titles at UNT same as Bama ain't winning them with McCarney as coach.

Saban at UNT would've done better than 1 win this year. And McCarney at Bama most likely doesn't win a national championship. The point is great coaches can elevate the talent they have, okay coaches only play up to the talent.

So, back to my original statement, it doesn't matter how many "stars" this class ends up having regarding the success/failure of next year. If Littrell is a great coach, we will see the results. Just like if he's an okay coach, we'll have another miserable year.

BUT, if he is a great coach and starts to turn the ship, you'll start seeing it in recruiting as well. I'm not saying talent doesn't matter. I'm saying these "star" ratings only hold so much weight. You have to have the right guy to steer as well.

NT93 · January 29, 2016

5 hours ago, MeanGreen22 said:

Players don't win games, coaches do.

1 hour ago, MeanGreen22 said:

I'm not saying talent doesn't matter. You kinda did. ^^^^^^

After your original post, I thought you were nuts. After the most recent one, I think we basically agree (which probably proves that you're nuts).

Edited January 29, 2016 by NT93

Got5onIt · January 29, 2016

4 hours ago, MeanGreen22 said:

Players don't win games, coaches do. Alabama routinely has top recruiting classes, but without Nick Saban they wouldn't be in the place they are now. Look at Mack Brown at Texas. Top 5 classes every year, 1 championship in 2 appearances.

Bottom line: If Littrell is a great coach, we'll win games next year, regardless of the amount of starts the recruiting class ends up with.

This isn't the NFL. Coaching is important, no doubt, but talent trumps all at this level.

UTSA Fan · January 29, 2016

2 hours ago, unt_rocket09 said:

Wow Ohio St lost 1 game in 2 years.....talent doesn't matter. Is this real life?

I don't see Alabama and Ohio State flipping UNT & UTSA 1 and 2 star recruits. Gonna take a wild guess that talent matters.

southsideguy · January 29, 2016

I think in the top 25 players make a bigger difference, in the mid majors coaching can make a big difference.

Edited January 29, 2016 by southsideguy

UNT90 · January 29, 2016

3 hours ago, unt_rocket09 said:

False. False. False. Talent usually wins over coaching. This isn't the nfl where all is equal. It's jimmies and joes and if you don't believe that then you sir are an idiot.

This.

40 minutes ago, MeanGreen22 said:

Saban at UNT would've done better than 1 win this year. And McCarney at Bama most likely doesn't win a national championship. The point is great coaches can elevate the talent they have, okay coaches only play up to the talent.

So, back to my original statement, it doesn't matter how many "stars" this class ends up having regarding the success/failure of next year. If Littrell is a great coach, we will see the results. Just like if he's an okay coach, we'll have another miserable year.

BUT, if he is a great coach and starts to turn the ship, you'll start seeing it in recruiting as well. I'm not saying talent doesn't matter. I'm saying these "star" ratings only hold so much weight. You have to have the right guy to steer as well.

I think what you are trying to say is great coaches maximize the talent they have, and no one would disagree with that.

But you can't recruit a bunch of 2 star players with no other FBS offers and hope to be successful by "coaching them up."

Not gonna happen.