How Do You Recruit to UNT?

GrandGreen · January 28, 2016

3 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

Why do I have to keep repeating myself?

Jamario wasn't part of that class, neither was Bishop, or Cobbs, or Early, or Pruitt. Even if you wipe out that one class he has out recruited everyone else.

Also, how did I fail to mention him having one killer class? Was it when I said this:

It is a little misleading to compare the number of top 100's from 15 years ago with the current ones. All the major newspapers and some not so major had their own state 100 lists all with a local leaning. So there were just more state 100 players. The other factor is that the lists didn't change once they were created.

Now most printed lists are rivals and they change as recruiting moves on based on who is recruiting who, meaning that it is very difficult now for any G5 to get anyone very high on the list.

I disagree with your evaluation of Dickey as a recruiter, but it is hard to argue that he wasn't the best since NT's reentry into FB football. Simon, who had a much worse situation than Dickey to recruit to, Dodge fresh out of high school and McCarney who was a disaster recruiting are not a lot of competition.

Monkeypox · January 28, 2016

Okay, I'm gonna hate posting this.....

Right now, Litrell is going to have to COACH his way out of this mess, and over multiple years, because it's a mess 20 years in the making. You have TWO arguments to sell to recruits right now: 1) Shiny New Coaches! and 2) Playing Time!

Outside of that, competitively you're recruiting against FCS. People act like that's some terrible thing, and it is, but only because that's where we are as a program.

We've lost, what, 20 of 24 seasons since Dickey started? Think about that.

And in the meantime, college football has gotten bigger and more competitive. We've sunk further away from the top during that timeframe. Teams like TCU and Baylor we were legitimately competitive with, even though they have always out-recruited and out-resourced us.

As I've done the draft pick research, when it comes to competition with our peers, I've yet to find a team that CAN'T use the "more players drafted" argument to recruit against us. That includes teams like La Tech, Arkansas State, Southern Miss, Tulane, UL-Lafayette. If you're a recruit who's looking to play at the next level, we're automatically behind those guys. The only team that hasn't is UTSA.... that's it. I could also include a number of FCS teams in there, so take that FWIW.

I'm just trying to be objective. Yeah, a better NAME at HC might have brought in better recruits this year... until we had a losing season. Because a losing season is "another losing season" here, and a winning season is "Five-year Extensions All Around!"

So how do I sell recruits here? I have no idea. Anybody who can is better than me. I have no problem admitting this.

bloodstunt · January 28, 2016

3 hours ago, ChristopherRyanWilkes said:

We have been using this strategy for years to no avail.

Really? I haven't seen too much of it. I see more guys that don't even get an offer than actually do. At this point I can see not spending a lot of time chasing guys that everyone is after but make offers. I don't remember them offering either Tyus Bowser or Greg Ward from JT and both of them were dynamic on the field and making plays at Houston now. They didn't offer the QB at Lake Dallas and he would seem to fit the offense they want to run going forward. They didn't offer Caleb Abrom at DeSoto who looks to me like he could play safety in college. Craig Suits at Poteet and Dane Evans at Sanger both went to Tulsa and I don't remember them getting offered or pursued much. I am sure one could sit down and go back over guys that were not even thrown an offer by UNT and signed somewhere other than a P5 school and come up with a pretty good team.

untjim1995 · January 28, 2016

3 minutes ago, bloodstunt said:

Really? I haven't seen too much of it. I see more guys that don't even get an offer than actually do. At this point I can see not spending a lot of time chasing guys that everyone is after but make offers. I don't remember them offering either Tyus Bowser or Greg Ward from JT and both of them were dynamic on the field and making plays at Houston now. They didn't offer the QB at Lake Dallas and he would seem to fit the offense they want to run going forward. They didn't offer Caleb Abrom at DeSoto who looks to me like he could play safety in college. Craig Suits at Poteet and Dane Evans at Sanger both went to Tulsa and I don't remember them getting offered or pursued much. I am sure one could sit down and go back over guys that were not even thrown an offer by UNT and signed somewhere other than a P5 school and come up with a pretty good team.

For those that the previous staff chose not to offer, its probably because the kids made it clear that UNT wasn't in their top three choices. As a matter of fact, its probable that the offense we were running kept almost every single throwing QB in the state from considering us. That lineup of QBs we have rolled out the last two seasons has just been embarrassing for a school in Texas. If you couldn't beat out Greer or McNulty, you shouldn't be playing FBS football--because THEY shouldn't have been playing FBS football...

Cerebus · January 28, 2016

24 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

It is a little misleading to compare the number of top 100's from 15 years ago with the current ones. All the major newspapers and some not so major had their own state 100 lists all with a local leaning. So there were just more state 100 players. The other factor is that the lists didn't change once they were created.

The lists changed, I've gone back and looked at them on microfilm, they are all in the basement of Willis Library if anyone is curious. Also the DaMN list was considered THE list at the time, there is no doubt in my mind that any of the Dickey Era State 100s would 1) be rivals state 100s today, and 2) help us greatly right now.

You are telling me Jamario or a Booger is a player that would be a ** star today? No way.

I don't know why it's so hard to admit Dickey was a good recruiter. The facts bear it out. He was awful at talking to the public though.

casual fan · January 28, 2016

4 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

For those that the previous staff chose not to offer, its probably because the kids made it clear that UNT wasn't in their top three choices.

This....and they just got sick & tired of a certain sports writer pointing out over and over again that a recruit they had offered committed to someone else.

UNT90 · January 28, 2016

40 minutes ago, Monkeypox said:

Okay, I'm gonna hate posting this.....

Right now, Litrell is going to have to COACH his way out of this mess, and over multiple years, because it's a mess 20 years in the making. You have TWO arguments to sell to recruits right now: 1) Shiny New Coaches! and 2) Playing Time!

Outside of that, competitively you're recruiting against FCS. People act like that's some terrible thing, and it is, but only because that's where we are as a program.

We've lost, what, 20 of 24 seasons since Dickey started? Think about that.

And in the meantime, college football has gotten bigger and more competitive. We've sunk further away from the top during that timeframe. Teams like TCU and Baylor we were legitimately competitive with, even though they have always out-recruited and out-resourced us.

As I've done the draft pick research, when it comes to competition with our peers, I've yet to find a team that CAN'T use the "more players drafted" argument to recruit against us. That includes teams like La Tech, Arkansas State, Southern Miss, Tulane, UL-Lafayette. If you're a recruit who's looking to play at the next level, we're automatically behind those guys. The only team that hasn't is UTSA.... that's it. I could also include a number of FCS teams in there, so take that FWIW.

I'm just trying to be objective. Yeah, a better NAME at HC might have brought in better recruits this year... until we had a losing season. Because a losing season is "another losing season" here, and a winning season is "Five-year Extensions All Around!"

So how do I sell recruits here? I have no idea. Anybody who can is better than me. I have no problem admitting this.

Don't forget Abilene Christian, Sam Houston St., and any other FCS that has had a player drafted in the last 10 years.

Because UNT hasn't.

Monkeypox · January 28, 2016

2 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

Don't forget Abilene Christian, Sam Houston St., and any other FCS that has had a player drafted in the last 10 years.

Because UNT hasn't.

Yeah, I just didn't feel like listing EVERY school on earth that has beaten us with this.

44 minutes ago, Monkeypox said:

I could also include a number of FCS teams in there, so take that FWIW.

UNT90 · January 28, 2016

9 minutes ago, Monkeypox said:

Yeah, I just didn't feel like listing EVERY school on earth that has beaten us with this.

And D2 teams, also.

Yet the AD that oversees this crapfest keeps his job.

Only at North Texas.

Not at SFA, not at SHSU, not at Abilene Christian.

Only at North Texas.

GrandGreen · January 28, 2016

1 hour ago, Cerebus said:

The lists changed, I've gone back and looked at them on microfilm, they are all in the basement of Willis Library if anyone is curious. Also the DaMN list was considered THE list at the time, there is no doubt in my mind that any of the Dickey Era State 100s would 1) be rivals state 100s today, and 2) help us greatly right now.

You are telling me Jamario or a Booger is a player that would be a ** star today? No way.

I don't know why it's so hard to admit Dickey was a good recruiter. The facts bear it out. He was awful at talking to the public though.

The DMN's top hundred was considered the list in their circulation area. Not sure what you are debating now, were did I tell you that Kennedy or Thomas were two stars. Kennedy and Thomas proved to be great players which is more important than were they were ranked coming out of high school.

I would gladly admit Dickey was a good recruiter if I thought it was true. A good recruiter has more than one great class, and don't slide to the level of recruiting Dickey had at the end of his NT career. Good recruiters don't disparage the product NT, they are trying to sell to a recruit.

foutsrouts · January 28, 2016

3 hours ago, Cerebus said:

Up and comer? Three losing seasons and played in a stadium built when Eisenhower was in office. Man, I bet four star recruits where just lining up to play on that green painted concrete.

Actually I think it opened during the Truman administration, which I'm sure was even more impressive to recruits.

Monkeypox · January 28, 2016

JUST using 247 sports because of laziness, not maliciousness. Anyone else is welcome to pull their own data.

Since 2003, we've beaten Tulane's recruiting class 3 times: in 2005 (#92 to #95), 2007 (#95 to 104), 2008 (#57 to#101),

McCarney's first recruiting class was ranked 105, btw.

Our top 10 recruits in that era were (Decide for yourselves what we accomplished w/ each of them):

1) Nate Jenkins - 2008

2) Michael Pruitt - 2003

3) Riley Dodge - 2008

4) Kevin Dillman - 2015

5) Darrien McNair - 2015

6) Boone Feldt - 2012

7) Caleb Chumley - 2014

8) Alonzo Horton - 2008

9) Justin Edwards - 2008

10) Troy Franklin - 2008

Got5onIt · January 29, 2016

3 hours ago, Cerebus said:

The lists changed, I've gone back and looked at them on microfilm, they are all in the basement of Willis Library if anyone is curious. Also the DaMN list was considered THE list at the time, there is no doubt in my mind that any of the Dickey Era State 100s would 1) be rivals state 100s today, and 2) help us greatly right now.

You are telling me Jamario or a Booger is a player that would be a ** star today? No way.

I don't know why it's so hard to admit Dickey was a good recruiter. The facts bear it out. He was awful at talking to the public though.

Remember the rumor of Jamario transferring to a power school after his freshman year? He was getting national attention. I swear he was an incoming 3 star recruit?

Cerebus · January 29, 2016

13 hours ago, Got5onIt said:

Remember the rumor of Jamario transferring to a power school after his freshman year? He was getting national attention. I swear he was an incoming 3 star recruit?

Jamario was a DaMN State Top 100 and a *** or **** depending on what list you looked at. He was a higher rated HS recruit than anything Dodge or Mac (or so far SL) had been able to pull in.

Not bad for a coaching staff that "couldn't recruit."

Got5onIt · January 29, 2016

11 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

Jamario was a DaMN State Top 100 and a *** or **** depending on what list you looked at. He was a higher rated HS recruit than anything Dodge or Mac (or so far SL) had been able to pull in.

Not bad for a coaching staff that "couldn't recruit."

And then sorely misused by the Village Idiot Dodge during the rest of his career. I know JT had some injury issues but Dodge was going to run his system come hell or high water and not focus on his best offensive weapon. That's the way I always saw it.

UNT90 · January 29, 2016

23 hours ago, Got5onIt said:

Looking back, DD accomplished more at NT than Teflon Todd or Mac. I know that's a tough pill for some here to swallow. Was he RV's hire?

No, but he was almost an RV Fire before that magical 4 year run...

rcade · January 29, 2016

Recruiting a kid to Denton should be easier today than it was in the '80s when I attended school. The campus is more impressive, Apogee is a massive upgrade over Fouts and the nightlife in town is better. The courthouse square 30 years ago was a ghost town. There only was a video store, Recycled Books, a burger place and El Matador a few blocks away. When I visit these days Denton looks more like a destination than a place you leave every weekend to do things in Dallas or Fort Worth.

oldguystudent · January 29, 2016

1 hour ago, Got5onIt said:

Dodge was going to run his system come hell or high water and not focus on his best offensive weapon.

But..but...it was a system! He could've won here if he'd had more time and had his cabinets been better stocked! The ship was about to right! The grating performance got high grades! Please! Won't somebody think of the children sired by the husbands and fathers?

HarringtonFishSmeller · January 29, 2016

18 hours ago, Cerebus said:

The lists changed, I've gone back and looked at them on microfilm, they are all in the basement of Willis Library if anyone is curious. Also the DaMN list was considered THE list at the time, there is no doubt in my mind that any of the Dickey Era State 100s would 1) be rivals state 100s today, and 2) help us greatly right now.

You are telling me Jamario or a Booger is a player that would be a ** star today? No way.

I don't know why it's so hard to admit Dickey was a good recruiter. The facts bear it out. He was awful at talking to the public though.

Yes, agree. But, that's the bipolar nature of this fan base:
(1) The coach that takes you to four bowl games was an idiot who couldn't get good players, wasn't friendly/kiss ass enough
(2) The quarterback who led your offense to the highest point total since rejoining I-A/FBS and helped win another bowl game sucked and should have been on the bench behind a kid who never lifted weights or watched film or studied the playbook.

This fan base cannot handle success. This is our fanbase:

greenminer · January 29, 2016

What was Dickey's contract status at the time he was let go?

I'm trying to wrap my head around the fact that we let him go when we did, yet Benford is still here.

MeanGreenTexan · January 29, 2016

3 minutes ago, greenminer said:

What was Dickey's contract status at the time he was let go?

I'm trying to wrap my head around the fact that we let him go when we did, yet Benford is still here.

RV did not hire Dickey. No skin in that game.
RV hired Benford at a crux for the Mean Green Basketball program, and a year later, every bit of positive momentum gained under JJ was lost. This makes RV look very, very bad. So, he's going to ride this thing on out on the hopes that Benford finds a nut.

Censored by Laurie · January 29, 2016

lie.

a lot.

greenminer · January 29, 2016

19 hours ago, Got5onIt said:

Remember the rumor of Jamario transferring to a power school after his freshman year? He was getting national attention. I swear he was an incoming 3 star recruit?

Never ever heard this before.

I thought Jamario had dyslexia and we were high on his list because of our resources to assist him in that area.

Got5onIt · January 29, 2016

2 hours ago, greenminer said:

Never ever heard this before.

I thought Jamario had dyslexia and we were high on his list because of our resources to assist him in that area.

Yep, I remember hearing something like that near the end of the season. He was torching defenses as a true freshman. I know I'm not the only one who remembers those rumors flying around that season.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Got5onIt

Paulie Walnuts · January 30, 2016

I think I figured out what we are doing wrong with recruiting. Listen carefully to this video clip from an official visit tonight and see if you can figure it out: