Long Term Prospects For Football?

[HarringtonFishSmeller]

From Antwaan Randle El:

“The kids are getting bigger and faster, so the concussions, the severe spinal cord injuries, are only going to get worse,” Randle El said. “It’s a tough pill to swallow because I love the game of football. But I tell parents, you can have the right helmet, the perfect pads on, and still end up with a paraplegic kid.

“There’s no correcting it. There’s no helmet that’s going to correct it. There’s no teaching that’s going to correct it. It just comes down to it’s a physically violent game. Football players are in a car wreck every week.”

He added: “I wouldn’t be surprised if football isn’t around in 20, 25 years.”

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jan/19/super-bowl-xl-star-antwaan-randle-el-says-he-regrets-ever-playing-football

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyone have an opinion here?  I bring this up because the article goes to the heart of something we've discussed recently with other parents whose kids play on my son's basketball team.  We all have 9- to 10-year old boys.  Most of the boys on this team do not play football.

In discussions with other parents, we note that our sons beg us to let them play tackle football.  But, we have thusfar held the line in telling them no. 

My son will be 10 years old next month and already weighs 120 pounds.  The other kids on his basketball team are also big, tall, or both.  I figure our boy will be 5'11" or so and weight 200-220 pounds before he's 18.  We get asked all the time which football team he plays for; the answer is always, none.

Football is the only thing he haven't let him play.  He's played soccer, lacrosse, basketball, and baseball.  Our hope is that he forgets football.  If Antwaan Randle El is right, football will be gone anyway. I like to watch football; but, I don't want my son to struggle down staircases when he's 36 years old.

I don't think football will disappear, but you never know.  Seems there is always something out there to kill the "Golden Goose."  Football is mired in injury problems and lawsuits.  And, with another discussion on here, we've already discussed to death the NCAA P5 programs and the money squeeze it is for schools like ours to keep up with them. 

I see many football-related lawsuits over the next few years - for injuries and players' rights.  It could well eat itself if the problems surrounding it get too big.

 

Edited January 21, 2016 by HarringtonFishSmeller

[Graddean]

Look at the physics of the sport.  F=MA.  As players get bigger and faster, the force of impact gets greater and greater.  On the sixties, NT had an all MVC nose guard that weighed 200 pounds.  Jerry Jones was an allSWC offensive lineman.  Jimmy Johnson was an all SWC defensive lineman.  Do you think any of these guys could play the line today.  DII offensive lineman go close to 300 ponds today.  I don't know the answer, but you can't eliminate injuries.  If it were not for improvement in surgical and rehab techniques, many of the pro and college players today would be out of the contest.  It seems in many cases we are simply delaying the payday for these injuries.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Football is a violent game, and people get hurt playing it. Over-protective parents refusing to let their kids play is not new. Yet despite all these concerns, has football ever been more popular? I played throughout my youth and high school, and yes now I struggle down staircases. But it wasnt until I was playing intramural flag football at North Texas that I tore my knee up in a non-contact injury. Same thing happened to my daughter. Also non-contact. You can get hurt playing any sport - or not playing any sport. You cant live your life being worried about whether or not you might get hurt. My son is 15 years old and is already 6'3 245 lbs. He started on varsity at Tackle the 2nd half of his Soph. season last fall. Of course I worry about him getting hurt. But I still will encourage him to play this great game for as long as he possibly can - because in my opinion no other sport compares to the greatness of football. 

[UNTexas]

Every sport has dangers.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Deaths_in_sport

Sure football players get beat up but I knew a lot of girls who have bad knees from Soccer. I cycle and have had more dangerous encounters cycling on roads then I did in football. 

[Got5onIt]

Every sport has risks. I played football from little league all the way into college. I've got 2 bad shoulders now but would do it all over again  in a heartbeat. My brother played at Navy, we have friends that played at P5 schools, and the NFL. They're all doing well and have the same attitude I have towards football. They all are or will allow their sons to play. The friendships and memories developed over the years are priceless. I want my son to experience the same things and forge his own memories and relationships through football.  My 8 year old played full contact football this season and loved it.

Now as a parent you have to be smart and stay on top of whose coaching your child. I've seen a ton of bad coaching already at this level, as far as technique is concerned. Never let winning get in the way of doing it right...

Edited January 22, 2016 by Got5onIt

[ADLER]

I don't think that collegiate football will disappear, at least not in our lifetimes.

I do think that equipment will continue to improve, the rules concerning safety will continue to evolve, and that the game will steadily become less violent as pay and even scholarships are eliminated. Football will return to the integrity it had as a spirited athletic activity for student athletes as it was originally intended.

There will always be schools that place a premium on their teams winning at all costs because semi-pro football is the only significant activity in their insignificant states. Most of those schools, currently in P5 conferences, will be ecstatic when they officially become a minor league farm system for the NFL and associated with a college in name only.

Edited January 22, 2016 by ADLER

[MeanGreen_MBA]

I played both football and basketball from 3rd grade through HS, and 1 year of college basketball(not very good it seems)....I got 1 concussion playing football, and 2 playing basketball.  I broke 2 bones playing basketball, and 1 playing football.  I have aches and pains, as I suspect most people do as they get older.  Wouldn't trade either experience for anything in the world.

My question is this.  While we are seeing a certain number of ex-pro players experiencing troubles later in life....how does that equate % wise to people who never played but still experience the same types of troubles.....hard to walk, memory issues, bad joints.....  My mother never played a down of football in her life, but experience early on-set dementia.  A certain % of the population will experience XXXX over a life time.  As it rates to the NFL (other pro sports)  What % of those athletes experience those same issues?  I would like to know that.  Also, added to the mix....you can include the type of people that are attracted to sports....Type A's vs Type C's  Are they more apt to have issues....even those who don't have the athletic ability to go big....but have the same "aggressive" life style.  There are a lot of factors that I don't think are being consider other than  "XXX" amount of players are experiencing this, so it must be Football that caused it.  Of course, it makes sense that banging you head against an opposing force cannot possibly be healthy......but is it overwhelmingly the cause for all the health issues?  Inquiring minds want to know!!!!

[HarringtonFishSmeller]

So, basically, with some of you, ignore the Earl Campbells who are in wheelchairs by the age of 50, the Atwaan Randle Els who have trouble walking down stairs in the mid-30s, suicides by the Junior Seaus, and the Tony Dorsetts with CTE...or be labelled an overprotective parent?

[HarringtonFishSmeller]

28 minutes ago, Eagle1855 said:

It would seem so.

I think it's absolutely a legit question and a worthwhile discussion. I do think football is here to stay, but it may look much different a couple decades from now.

Thanks.  Thought it was strange to be overbearing by just taking into consideration what a former NFL player said.

6 hours ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

I played both football and basketball from 3rd grade through HS, and 1 year of college basketball(not very good it seems)....I got 1 concussion playing football, and 2 playing basketball.  I broke 2 bones playing basketball, and 1 playing football.  I have aches and pains, as I suspect most people do as they get older.  Wouldn't trade either experience for anything in the world.

My question is this.  While we are seeing a certain number of ex-pro players experiencing troubles later in life....how does that equate % wise to people who never played but still experience the same types of troubles.....hard to walk, memory issues, bad joints.....  My mother never played a down of football in her life, but experience early on-set dementia.  A certain % of the population will experience XXXX over a life time.  As it rates to the NFL (other pro sports)  What % of those athletes experience those same issues?  I would like to know that.  Also, added to the mix....you can include the type of people that are attracted to sports....Type A's vs Type C's  Are they more apt to have issues....even those who don't have the athletic ability to go big....but have the same "aggressive" life style.  There are a lot of factors that I don't think are being consider other than  "XXX" amount of players are experiencing this, so it must be Football that caused it.  Of course, it makes sense that banging you head against an opposing force cannot possibly be healthy......but is it overwhelmingly the cause for all the health issues?  Inquiring minds want to know!!!!

Okay...but, look...some people never smoke cigarettes, but still get some form of cancer.  So, do we say, "Ah...go ahead an smoke because you might get cancer from some other source or nothing at all anyway?"  No.  If there is something we know increases the risk, we do our best to bring it to light and warn people about it.

It is easy to get on YouTube and pull up commercials from the 1950s and 60s of doctors hawking cigarettes.  We know now that the tobacco companies were hiding studies they knew showed their product was harmful.

I'm not saying you can't get concussions in other sports.  I'm not even arguing that you shouldn't let your kids play football.  We're still on the fence with it.  But, the only reason we're on the fence with it is the new studies.  And, unfortunately, it does look more and more like the NFL and equipment makers may have downplayed the extent to which they knew their equipment was not as protective as they claimed.

I think Antwaan Randle El is probably going a bit overboard with thinking football will become extinct within three decades.  I think more along the lines of others who believe we'll see more rules to protect players, better equipment, and taking injury protocol out of the coaches'/teams' hands to a larger degree.

The rule I'd like to see in football - from high school all the way to the NFL -  is that if you cause an injury to another player on a play in which you are also penalized - i.e., you did it on purpose/personal foul - you are suspended for as many games as the player you injured is out because of the injury you caused.

So, you dive at a lineman's or QB's knees and he's out for the rest of the year, you are out for the rest of the year...without pay.  You head hunt a guy and give him a concussion and he's out a game or two, you are out a game or two with no pay.  Crackback block on a DE or linebacker that injures him...suspended for as long as he's out.  Again, without pay. 

Edited January 22, 2016 by HarringtonFishSmeller

[oldguystudent]

Concussions are a fair price to pay for stand up husbands and fathers.

[UTSA Fan]

I did not let my son play football. My injuries were enough to guide him away to make school his focus and sports recreational.

[JesseMartin]

I can see the possibility that things develop to the point where change is more forced than voluntary, possibly even through lawsuits.  I would wager that if this does occur, it would veer towards being a bit more rugby-like anyway.

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

I think this is a great discussion and one that, as a new father, I have contemplated multiple times. My wife says no but I'm okay with it (I think). But then I see guys getting carted off the field, or read stories about someone getting hit so hard their helmet broke, etc. One other aspect of this, and why I think football will not go away, is that it affords many students the ability to attend college when they otherwise wouldn't be able to through scholarships. I think they will continue to change the game to make it safer for the players; ie moving up the kick-offs, stricter penalties (targeting), etc. and while I joke that football will one day become a touch sport, it's also not my son out there playing (yet).

[HarringtonFishSmeller]

On 1/24/2016 at 9:53 AM, Daddy Dumpsalot said:

I think this is a great discussion and one that, as a new father, I have contemplated multiple times. My wife says no but I'm okay with it (I think). But then I see guys getting carted off the field, or read stories about someone getting hit so hard their helmet broke, etc. One other aspect of this, and why I think football will not go away, is that it affords many students the ability to attend college when they otherwise wouldn't be able to through scholarships. I think they will continue to change the game to make it safer for the players; ie moving up the kick-offs, stricter penalties (targeting), etc. and while I joke that football will one day become a touch sport, it's also not my son out there playing (yet).

I was set on letting ours play in junior high, and I see where many NFLers now say to wait until junior high or later.  And, we are still debating it.  He's a big little guy, and he's so eager to get out there and do it. 

The thing that got me thinking was Junior Seau's suicide.  I always viewed him a one of the toughest guys to ever play the game.  But, less than three years after he retired, the pain and confusion were so bad for him, he felt he had to kill himself. 

It also does bother me when industries hide their dirty laundry.  Tobacco industry was a big one to me - having doctors hawk your product when you had studies showing you had bad it is.  Here, NFL, the teams, their doctors, and the equipment companies all hid their dirty laundry when people came in the front door to visit.   

Whether or not our son ever plays, I'm happy that we have more information about the dangers of the sport than those in Junior Seau's generation and before had.  Seeing him die, seeing the mighty Earl Campbell - maybe the best running back I've ever seen - in a wheelchair by 50...you know, it gives you second thoughts. 

[Paulie Walnuts]

3 hours ago, HarringtonFishSmeller said:

I was set on letting ours play in junior high, and I see where many NFLers now say to wait until junior high or later.  And, we are still debating it.  He's a big little guy, and he's so eager to get out there and do it. 

The thing that got me thinking was Junior Seau's suicide.  I always viewed him a one of the toughest guys to ever play the game.  But, less than three years after he retired, the pain and confusion were so bad for him, he felt he had to kill himself. 

It also does bother me when industries hide their dirty laundry.  Tobacco industry was a big one to me - having doctors hawk your product when you had studies showing you had bad it is.  Here, NFL, the teams, their doctors, and the equipment companies all hid their dirty laundry when people came in the front door to visit.   

Whether or not our son ever plays, I'm happy that we have more information about the dangers of the sport than those in Junior Seau's generation and before had.  Seeing him die, seeing the mighty Earl Campbell - maybe the best running back I've ever seen - in a wheelchair by 50...you know, it gives you second thoughts. 

You are basing your decision on whether or not to let your son play junior high football - on Junior Seau and Earl Campbell?? Do you have a guess as to what the odds are of your son having a long NFL career at this point would be - let alone the HOF career of two of the more physical guys that ever played? Hell, only 3-4% of high school players get the chance to play in college. 

[Army of Dad]

28 minutes ago, Paulie Walnuts said:

You are basing your decision on whether or not to let your son play junior high football - on Junior Seau and Earl Campbell?? Do you have a guess as to what the odds are of your son having a long NFL career at this point would be - let alone the HOF career of two of the more physical guys that ever played? Hell, only 3-4% of high school players get the chance to play in college. 

Try looking at it another way, his kid is unlikely to be the biggest/strongest player on the field in jr high and HS. Since that's the case then seeing what happened to guys who were the biggest/strongest in HS once they were playing guys more equal could reasonably give someone pause.

I'm guessing Seau and Campbell were dishing out the punishment before college and not on the receiving end. 

Edited January 25, 2016 by Army of Dad

[Arkstfan]

Newspaper predicted football would cease to exist because of concussions back in 1905

http://awfulannouncing.com/2013/newspapers-were-warning-against-concussions-in-football-in-1905.html

The NCAA exists because there was a need to create a rules framework to make football safer.

Let's not even think about the billions, trillions invested by colleges in football since the creation of the sport, look no further than the NFL. You've got a guy getting ready to plow $1.85 billion into a privately funded stadium in Los Angeles. The NFL is more valuable than the NBA and the Clippers the distant second most popular NBA team in LA sold for a billion dollars. The 32 NFL franchises are worth probably $50 billion plus.

People with that sort of money at stake aren't going to let football die. If you watched the playoffs Sunday a couple times in each game as a college fan, you probably saw hits and said, "That's an ejection in college."

The NFL is taking action but the NCAA is currently more aggressive. New rule now says team doctor or concussion protocol officer is god on whether an injured player is cleared for action.

They will tweak the rules, they will modify the equipment but above all they will protect the investment.

[physics90]

2 hours ago, Arkstfan said:

Newspaper predicted football would cease to exist because of concussions back in 1905

http://awfulannouncing.com/2013/newspapers-were-warning-against-concussions-in-football-in-1905.html

The NCAA exists because there was a need to create a rules framework to make football safer.

Let's not even think about the billions, trillions invested by colleges in football since the creation of the sport, look no further than the NFL. You've got a guy getting ready to plow $1.85 billion into a privately funded stadium in Los Angeles. The NFL is more valuable than the NBA and the Clippers the distant second most popular NBA team in LA sold for a billion dollars. The 32 NFL franchises are worth probably $50 billion plus.

People with that sort of money at stake aren't going to let football die. If you watched the playoffs Sunday a couple times in each game as a college fan, you probably saw hits and said, "That's an ejection in college."

The NFL is taking action but the NCAA is currently more aggressive. New rule now says team doctor or concussion protocol officer is god on whether an injured player is cleared for action.

They will tweak the rules, they will modify the equipment but above all they will protect the investment.

Another great post Arkstfan!

[UNTLifer]

Some of the recent players that have had trouble, including one listed above, played when steroids were readily available and heavily used.  I would be very comfortable stating that the use of these drugs lead to some of the mental issues.  Of course, nome of these players ever tested positive so bringing this up and saying it contributed to so and so's medical condition would be slander, so I won't name names.

[Got5onIt]

On 1/22/2016 at 2:15 PM, HarringtonFishSmeller said:

So, basically, with some of you, ignore the Earl Campbells who are in wheelchairs by the age of 50, the Atwaan Randle Els who have trouble walking down stairs in the mid-30s, suicides by the Junior Seaus, and the Tony Dorsetts with CTE...or be labelled an overprotective parent?

So what about the Deions & Michael Irvin's of the world whose kids play? 

A friend of mine blew his knee at a New Years Eve party back in college. Tried to lift a guy up and his leg buckled under him. He never played football.

My brother's friend at Navy broke both legs, a hand, and ribs in a motorcycle accident. He wasn't a football player either.

 

[FirefightnRick]

40 minutes ago, Got5onIt said:

So what about the Deions & Michael Irvin's of the world whose kids play? 

A friend of mine blew his knee at a New Years Eve party back in college. Tried to lift a guy up and his leg buckled under him. He never played football.

My brother's friend at Navy broke both legs, a hand, and ribs in a motorcycle accident. He wasn't a football player either.

 

 

I don't call them Donorcycles for nothing.

 

Rick

[Got5onIt]

8 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

 

I don't call them Donorcycles for nothing.

 

Rick

 

 He had to have a rod placed in each leg. His right hand was broken as he was trying to protect his helmetless head from the oncoming tree. That supposedly saved his life.......