Air Raid-WSU vs UNC

[GOMG2013]

In watching the bowl games UNC and Wash St. They both ran Air raid/spread type systems, but UNC ran the ball a lot more.

Littrell called the plays, but was not the OC.  If I had to guess, he would rather the Air raid look similar to Wash State and what leach runs.  

When watching UNC, they had a QB that reminded me of Damarcus smith.  Williams is better than damarcus smith cause he has a better touch and grasp of the offense.  Williams is not accurate though and his strength was running and not throwing.  What I liked is that the coaching staff coached and developed a system around his skills.  Even though Littrell came from a pass happy version, they made adjustments based on talent.

After watching UNC, I wouldn't count damarcus smith out now.  He has a shot.  Even if nor starting, I can see litrell getting the most out of his talent and use him like he used williams.

[ChristopherRyanWilkes]

If Alec Morris can't beat out DaMarcus for the starting job then we are going to be in really bad shape. You say Marquis isn't very accurate. This is somewhat true, relatively speaking. He still completed 61% of his passes this season. Smith completed 46%. Nothing he did last season showed me we can compete with him as our QB. 

Edited December 30, 2015 by ChristopherRyanWilkes

[FirefightnRick]

Last night Tech's Air Raid met the SEC.  And although their freshman QB Mahomes had some spectacular plays to keep them in it for a while they kept doing what most Air Raid teams do....give the ball right back to the other team and it wore their D out.  Tech had 16 yards rushing in the first half and finished with 29 total.  Had LSU simply stayed with the ground game all night they could have hung 100 on them.  

 

But that Mahomes kid is unreal.  He's got a hiesman type year in his future if he stays healthy.

 

Rick

Edited December 30, 2015 by FirefightnRick

[GOMG2013]

3 minutes ago, ChristopherRyanWilkes said:

If Alec Morris can't beat out DaMarcus for the starting job then we are going to be in really bad shape. You say Marquis isn't very accurate. This is somewhat true, relatively speaking. He still completed 61% of his passes this season. Smith completed 46%. Nothing he did last season showed me we can compete with him as our QB. 

Comparing passing stats of an air raid offense to whatever we were running is like comparing apples to hamsters.

An Air raid system is going to have more wrs open, have wrs with more separation, and simple 5 yard passes and screens will pad completion percentage stats.

Like I said, williams is better right now.  He knows the offense.  He's not an unreasonable amount better than smith from an athletic standpoint.  

Littrell may be able to get something out of smith.  Williams is inaccurate, so they caled plays based on his skills.  Litrell can do the same for smith if it comes down to it.  I wouldnt count smith out because Littrell can work with a run first QB is my point.

[ChristopherRyanWilkes]

17 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

Last night Tech's Air Raid met the SEC.  And although their freshman QB Mahomes had some spectacular plays to keep them in it for a while they kept doing what most Air Raid teams do....give the ball right back to the other team and it wore their D out.  Tech had 16 yards in the first half and finished with 29 total.  Had LSU simply stayed with the ground game all night they could have hung 100 on them.  

 

Rick

*insert beating the dead horse picture here*

Really bad example once again. LSU has bigger and better athletes and that offense works for them especially against a team like Tech. You're right, LSU's style definitely works best for many bigger programs, especially coupled with a defensive minded coach. For the vast majority of smaller programs who can't recruit the athletes for that style of offense it doesn't work. But of course, this has already been stated and you will continue to beat the horse, so carry on. 

Edited December 30, 2015 by ChristopherRyanWilkes

[GOMG2013]

7 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

Last night Tech's Air Raid met the SEC.  And although their freshman QB Mahomes had some spectacular plays to keep them in it for a while they kept doing what most Air Raid teams do....give the ball right back to the other team and it wore their D out.  Tech had 16 yards rushing in the first half and finished with 29 total.  Had LSU simply stayed with the ground game all night they could have hung 100 on them.  

Well Rick, I guess when we play an SEC team we will lose.  

[ChristopherRyanWilkes]

4 minutes ago, GOMG2013 said:

Well Rick, I guess when we play an SEC team we will lose.  

He keeps nit picking to make his point, and none of his examples are even close to applicable to our situation. 

Edited December 30, 2015 by ChristopherRyanWilkes

[GOMG2013]

32 minutes ago, ChristopherRyanWilkes said:

Nothing he did last season showed me we can compete with him as our QB. 

He showed me he could run.  And that is still an asset in football...even at QB.  He looked HORRIBLE at passing though.  If he is in a pass first offense, I am with you.  His passing looked a lot better 8n juco though, so some of it could be not enough reps and sitting out.  We will see in the spring.  

Even if he doesn't start, i bet Littrell uses him.  Goaline, red zone, short yardage...

[ChristopherRyanWilkes]

1 minute ago, GOMG2013 said:

He showed me he could run.  And that is still an asset in football...even at QB.  He looked HORRIBLE at passing though.  If he is in a pass first offense, I am with you.  His passing looked a lot better 8n juco though, so some of it could be not enough reps and sitting out.  We will see in the spring.  

Even if he doesn't start, i bet Littrell uses him.  Goaline, red zone, short yardage...

He also got sacked many times trying to extend plays with his legs and made many mistakes. I don't trust him like I would trust Marquis Williams if I were Littrell. 

[JesseMartin]

I'd like to go back to the discussion of apples and hamsters.  Intriguing.

[Ben Gooding]

30 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

Last night Tech's Air Raid met the SEC.  And although their freshman QB Mahomes had some spectacular plays to keep them in it for a while they kept doing what most Air Raid teams do....give the ball right back to the other team and it wore their D out.  Tech had 16 yards rushing in the first half and finished with 29 total.  Had LSU simply stayed with the ground game all night they could have hung 100 on them.  

 

But that Mahomes kid is unreal.  He's got a hiesman type year in his future if he stays healthy.

 

Rick

No. Last night Tech's (Big12) defense met a power running game from the SEC. Tech still passed for 350+ yards, but it's hard to sustain on 1.5 ypc on 29 total rush yards. 

[Cerebus]

Tech lost because the 125th ranked rushing defense got steam rolled by one of the best running backs in the nation, who averaged 8 yards a carry on 29 carries.   Breaking that game down wasn't exactly rocket surgery.

[GOMG2013]

6 minutes ago, ChristopherRyanWilkes said:

He also got sacked many times trying to extend plays with his legs and made many mistakes. I don't trust him like I would trust Marquis Williams if I were Littrell. 

I agree about the dumb decisions.  Part of those sacks were due to improvising and trying to do too much.  Thats what happens when you don't know the offense and can't read defenses.  That will definetly need to get fixed.  

I am making a lot of assumptions.  I am assuming the Air raid offense concept and terminology is similar to what he ran at juco.  I am assuming Littrell can spread teams out, where smith has to only beat the front 4 and a LB to get some yards running.  I am assuming his touch gets better with reps.  I am assuming the air raid makes decision making easier instead of worrying about the defense killing you.

[HoustonEagle]

38 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

Last night Tech's Air Raid met the SEC.  And although their freshman QB Mahomes had some spectacular plays to keep them in it for a while they kept doing what most Air Raid teams do....give the ball right back to the other team and it wore their D out.  Tech had 16 yards rushing in the first half and finished with 29 total.  Had LSU simply stayed with the ground game all night they could have hung 100 on them.

 

But that Mahomes kid is unreal.  He's got a hiesman type year in his future if he stays healthy.

 

Rick

all I could think watching that game is Tech is incredibly small compared to LSU and Mahomes will prove to be better than Johnny Football by his senior year.  That kid is outstanding and has a frame for the NFL.

[Ole Green Guts]

I hope Littrell has the abilities that another Air Riad OC (Lincoln Riley) has with this offense. Adapt to why you have, don't stick you head in the sand.  

[ChristopherRyanWilkes]

1 hour ago, GOMG2013 said:

I agree about the dumb decisions.  Part of those sacks were due to improvising and trying to do too much.  Thats what happens when you don't know the offense and can't read defenses.  That will definetly need to get fixed.  

I am making a lot of assumptions.  I am assuming the Air raid offense concept and terminology is similar to what he ran at juco.  I am assuming Littrell can spread teams out, where smith has to only beat the front 4 and a LB to get some yards running.  I am assuming his touch gets better with reps.  I am assuming the air raid makes decision making easier instead of worrying about the defense killing you.

He had plenty of opportunity to learn it and it appeared he did not. He seemed to throw the ball to spots were there were no receivers multiple times because he didn't know the routes or read his progressions. Maybe a simpler offense would help, but if what McCarney and Chico were running was complex you could have fooled me. 

[GOMG2013]

24 minutes ago, ChristopherRyanWilkes said:

He had plenty of opportunity to learn it and it appeared he did not. He seemed to throw the ball to spots were there were no receivers multiple times because he didn't know the routes or read his progressions. Maybe a simpler offense would help, but if what McCarney and Chico were running was complex you could have fooled me. 

The sad part is what Chico was running was simple and complex at the same time.  Seems like we had 10 simple, ineffective sets and offenses.  Not one of them effective enough to build an identity off of.

The Air raid could actually be easier to learn than the stuff chico rolled out there.  The Air raid has one play that can do 5 different things.  Chico's offense has it where you have to change it to another play.  That is where miscommunication, blown blocking assignment, wrong routes can take place.  

As far as learning defenses, our philosophy was to let the defense dictate what we will run.  Air raid puts pressure on the defense.  He still needs to read defenses, but it is more of a looking for matchups to exploit than what overall defense they are running.  Some may even blitz an air raid, but if smith gets lose, it won't be 8 in the box to help.

What chico ran is nothing close to what smith ran in juco.  Just a guess, but this offense will be easier for smith to learn and run out of.

[TheColonyEagle]

Getting back to the original point.....in comparing the two versions.....I hope we have less Wash St and more UNC. While I think we need to spread it more and get away from McCarney ball, I just hate watching teams throw it 65 times. Bores me as much as running into 8-9 man fronts for 2 yards per carry. 

Having balance is still a key. I don't mind passing to set up the run just mix it up. 

May be a personal preference for me but I still like seeing teams run the ball effectively

UNC had a 1400+ yard rusher this year. Give me some of that in an air raid system.  

[FirefightnRick]

3 hours ago, ChristopherRyanWilkes said:

You're right.

I know.

 

Rick

[KRAM1]

4 hours ago, ChristopherRyanWilkes said:

He keeps nit picking to make his point, and none of his examples are even close to applicable to our situation. 

Just consider the source.

[Harry]

2 hours ago, TheColonyEagle said:

Getting back to the original point.....in comparing the two versions.....I hope we have less Wash St and more UNC. While I think we need to spread it more and get away from McCarney ball, I just hate watching teams throw it 65 times. Bores me as much as running into 8-9 man fronts for 2 yards per carry. 

Having balance is still a key. I don't mind passing to set up the run just mix it up. 

May be a personal preference for me but I still like seeing teams run the ball effectively

UNC had a 1400+ yard rusher this year. Give me some of that in an air raid system.  

I tend to agree with you although I would be ok with either compared to what we had.  UNC was very effective at running the ball.  That said, the Pirate's offense is one of the most entertaining to watch in the country.  It is a system that allows them to compete with teams that have better players.

[ChristopherRyanWilkes]

2 minutes ago, Harry said:

I tend to agree with you although I would be ok with either compared to what we had.  UNC was very effective at running the ball.  That said, the Pirate's offense is one of the most entertaining to watch in the country.  It is a system that allows them to compete with teams that have better players.

I tend to think Littrell is very adaptable and will adjust depending on what personnel he has. It may be more similar to UNC's this year but more similar to WSU's down the road once he has recruited the athletes needed for a Leach-like Air Raid. He has to know his most talented player on offense right now is his starting RB. 

[UNT Mean Green]

Littrell has been quoted as saying you adapt the offense to your personnel. Historically, it's easy to see that he does this. At Arizona they were pass happy. At UNC, more run focused. The system adjusts with different players, which is one of the beautiful things about Littrell and his offensive approach.