Sam Houston State (12/29/15)

MeanGreenTexan · December 31, 2015

On 12/30/2015 at 8:30 PM, Andrew said:

I love that our four freshman really love to play. Holston, Fuller, Brown, and Brice really have fun and get into it. I hope those four stay and build a foundation of winning basketball again at North Texas. Fun to watch and really seem to love it here.

Fuller is a load. He's got a fullback body. Got called for a ticky-tack foul due to pushing a dude around with very minimal effort.
I like that Brice is a clown with his teammates. Seems like a good dude. He needs a good interior coach to work with him, but the tools are there. He could be great for us in the future... but he needs a coach.
I really like Brown. Little guy, big motor. Reminded me of a former short guy running point a few yrs ago... of course, he wouldn't drive into the paint nearly the way Josh did, but maybe if he had the right coaching...
Deckie balled last night. He was feeling it. It was fun to go to a game we actually won!

Andrew · December 31, 2015

28 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Fuller is a load. He's got a fullback body. Got called for a ticky-tack foul due to pushing a dude around with very minimal effort.
I like that Brice is a clown with his teammates. Seems like a good dude. He needs a good interior coach to work with him, but the tools are there. He could be great for us in the future... but he needs a coach.
I really like Brown. Little guy, big motor. Reminded me of a former short guy running point a few yrs ago... of course, he wouldn't drive into the paint nearly the way Josh did, but maybe if he had the right coaching...
Deckie balled last night. He was feeling it. It was fun to go to a game we actually won!

Don't forget Holston. He has great length and is a decent defender. He has a high ceiling with his athleticism.

FirefightnRick · December 31, 2015

If there's no money to buy Benny out, then if he refuses to resign then simply reassign him and move on.

Rick

Edited December 31, 2015 by FirefightnRick

Dr. Seuss · December 31, 2015

5 hours ago, UNTFan23 said:

5 hours ago, UNTFan23 said:

The problem with buying out the last year of the contract is you are sending good money after bad. Why not let him finish out that last year? It can't do any more real harm. The people attending the games at this point are the ones that will be there regardless of how the team is doing.

You're really rolling the dice hoping that attendance returns once a new coach is hired. There really is no guarantee that you'd recover the money you spent buying out the contract.

Here's a much better way for all of this to go down:

At the end of the athletic year (which is in the May/June time frame), RV quietly rides off into the sunset never to be heard from again. A new AD is hired by President Smatresk. For the 2016-2017 season, Benford is allowed to finish the final year of his contract. The new Athletic Director meanwhile quietly shops for a new head coach. After the conference tournament, Benford rides off into the sunset never to be heard from again. After the NCAA tournament is over, a new men's basketball coach is announced.

Huh? By keeping Benford you are using good money to employ a bad coach. Benford's contract is a sunk cost and it shouldn't have any effect on hiring a future head coach.

This whole post makes no sense because I believe RV is on contract until the beginning of 2017 or end of 2016? So the whole "much better way" wont happen. Unless you buy out RV's contract, which is the exact case you're arguing against.

Army of Dad · December 31, 2015

13 hours ago, UNTFan23 said:

The problem with buying out the last year of the contract is you are sending good money after bad. Why not let him finish out that last year? It can't do any more real harm. The people attending the games at this point are the ones that will be there regardless of how the team is doing.

You're really rolling the dice hoping that attendance returns once a new coach is hired. There really is no guarantee that you'd recover the money you spent buying out the contract.

Here's a much better way for all of this to go down:

At the end of the athletic year (which is in the May/June time frame), RV quietly rides off into the sunset never to be heard from again. A new AD is hired by President Smatresk. For the 2016-2017 season, Benford is allowed to finish the final year of his contract. The new Athletic Director meanwhile quietly shops for a new head coach. After the conference tournament, Benford rides off into the sunset never to be heard from again. After the NCAA tournament is over, a new men's basketball coach is announced.

I...I.. Hardly know where to start with this. Your support of the AD is puzzling to me, but this is a whole new level. As bad as people have made fun of Andrew, Ben, and Munthe this post deserves more ridicule than it will get since the basketball forum is a wasteland right now.

No, RV should be dismissed ASAP and Benford shown the door at the same time.

Retaining Benford another year does do harm and lots of it. There are very valid reasons why it's incredibly rare to have a non-interim coach working in the last year of his/her deal. Didn't you blindly back the 5 year contracts given by RV in part because less than that hurts recruiting? How much will it hurt recruiting to try and get a kid to sign when the coach isn't even under contract for his/her freshman year!? Team discipline often suffers when the players can think 'these guys can't tell me anything since they won't even be here next year.' Then there's still the matter of Benford ball being so bad.

UNT90 · December 31, 2015

23 has fallen for the persistent RV party line "North Texas is just so poor."

Its probably the most damaging of all the lies told by RV. This allows RV to be lazy in scheduling, ticket office, growing the MGC, and many, many other aspects of the AD.

UNT could buy out both RV and Benford The Destroyer right now if they were committed to athletics. They simply aren't, and can't seem to learn from years and years of past mistakes from provious UNT leadership.

You really can't blame 23. He is a product of a culture that consistently preaches to its fans that expectations of any kind are unacceptable. Where athletics are concerned, this culture runs very very very deep, and won't change until attitudes are changed in the board of regents and at the chancellor level.

So, probably never.

untjim1995 · December 31, 2015

17 hours ago, UNTFan23 said:

The problem with buying out the last year of the contract is you are sending good money after bad. Why not let him finish out that last year? It can't do any more real harm. The people attending the games at this point are the ones that will be there regardless of how the team is doing.

You're really rolling the dice hoping that attendance returns once a new coach is hired. There really is no guarantee that you'd recover the money you spent buying out the contract.

Here's a much better way for all of this to go down:

At the end of the athletic year (which is in the May/June time frame), RV quietly rides off into the sunset never to be heard from again. A new AD is hired by President Smatresk. For the 2016-2017 season, Benford is allowed to finish the final year of his contract. The new Athletic Director meanwhile quietly shops for a new head coach. After the conference tournament, Benford rides off into the sunset never to be heard from again. After the NCAA tournament is over, a new men's basketball coach is announced.

You would kill recruiting by doing this--and that seems to be the only thing Tony Benford is decent at doing, recruiting. We have done this bit here where we let the coach at UNT go into his last year of the contract and have been rewarded with two awful years--Jimmy Gales' last season and Vic Trilli's last season. They couldn't recruit anyone here because of the negative recruiting that other coaches rightfully threw at recruits looking at us and the team basically quit listening to the coaches once the losing got going in earnest. It would be an awful idea to let Benford coach one more day beyond this season, but ESPECIALLY if its going into the last year of the contract without an extension.

RV ain't going anywhere anytime soon. The UNT 17 won't allow it so they won't lose access and the BOR likes what he does as an AD because he doesn't rock the boat while keeping the budget in line with what the BOR gives to him each year. He has it made--he will leave here when he wants to leave here, IMO.

FirefightnRick · January 2, 2016

On December 31, 2015 at 11:38 AM, UNT90 said:

23 has fallen for the persistent RV party line "North Texas is just so poor."

Its probably the most damaging of all the lies told by RV. This allows RV to be lazy in scheduling, ticket office, growing the MGC, and many, many other aspects of the AD.

UNT could buy out both RV and Benford The Destroyer right now if they were committed to athletics. They simply aren't, and can't seem to learn from years and years of past mistakes from provious UNT leadership.

You really can't blame 23. He is a product of a culture that consistently preaches to its fans that expectations of any kind are unacceptable. Where athletics are concerned, this culture runs very very very deep, and won't change until attitudes are changed in the board of regents and at the chancellor level.

So, probably never.

There was a fleeting moment in time from the fall of 2000..(Late November?)..thru one night during the week of February 6th, 2001 when I was convinced the attitude had changed and the culture of losing was on its way out.

That Fall Dr. Pohl ended the miserable Helwig era then hired the legendary Gene Stallings to evaluate our program. The week of Feb 6th my wife was 9 months pregnant and about to calve with my first kiddo and I sweet talked her into going with me to hear coach Stallings presentation in return for a steak dinner at Ranchman's Steakhouse.

Coach Stallings was extremely blunt and it wasn't at all pretty at what he had to say in letting us know how bad it was. He mentioned how pathetic it was that we didn't have a room large enough to to have a football team meeting. Mentioned how rediculous it was that our players nutrition plan usually resulted at Taco Bell,...and then after pointing out several other shortcomings he threw Trilli under the bus by critically stating.. "FOLKS.... I was at a basketball game the other night here at the Super Pit and your team was losing by 20 to a team that doesn't even give out scholarships!...YOU SIMPLY CANT HAVE THAT!"...and Trilli was standing in the back of the room.

I thought...YES...finally, someone with a sense of reality calling it like it is and people are listening. Unfortunately it was short lived.

Rick

UNT90 · January 2, 2016

2 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

There was a fleeting moment in time from the fall of 2000..(Late November?)..thru one night during the week of February 6th, 2001 when I was convinced the attitude had changed and the culture of losing was on its way out.

That Fall Dr. Pohl ended the miserable Helwig era then hired the legendary Gene Stallings to evaluate our program. The week of Feb 6th my wife was 9 months pregnant and about to calve with my first kiddo and I sweet talked her into going with me to hear coach Stallings presentation in return for a steak dinner at Ranchman's Steakhouse.

Coach Stallings was extremely blunt and it wasn't at all pretty at what he had to say in letting us know how bad it was. He mentioned how pathetic it was that we didn't have a room large enough to to have a football team meeting. Mentioned how rediculous it was that our players nutrition plan usually resulted at Taco Bell,...and then after pointing out several other shortcomings he threw Trilli under the bus by critically stating.. "FOLKS.... I was at a basketball game the other night here at the Super Pit and your team was losing by 20 to a team that doesn't even give out scholarships!...YOU SIMPLY CANT HAVE THAT!"...and Trilli was standing in the back of the room.

I thought...YES...finally, someone with a sense of reality calling it like it is and people are listening. Unfortunately it was short lived.

Rick

I'm sure there were polite nods and then he filed a report, UNT said thank you, and then ushered Stallings to the door, as soon as he was out of the parking lot, the report was "filed" in the trash can.

I'm quite sure none of his suggestions were implemented.

Its what UNT does.

FirefightnRick · January 2, 2016

Actually...MoGreen stepped to the plate soon after and wrote a $100K check to have the meeting room built for Dickey's team. MoGreen had been a long time donor here. I imagine without his major support we may not even have football. Now he's down to about two hand claps and one game a season....or so it seems?

Rick

MCMLXXX · January 2, 2016

17 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

There was a fleeting moment in time from the fall of 2000..(Late November?)..thru one night during the week of February 6th, 2001 when I was convinced the attitude had changed and the culture of losing was on its way out.

That Fall Dr. Pohl ended the miserable Helwig era then hired the legendary Gene Stallings to evaluate our program. The week of Feb 6th my wife was 9 months pregnant and about to calve with my first kiddo and I sweet talked her into going with me to hear coach Stallings presentation in return for a steak dinner at Ranchman's Steakhouse.

Coach Stallings was extremely blunt and it wasn't at all pretty at what he had to say in letting us know how bad it was. He mentioned how pathetic it was that we didn't have a room large enough to to have a football team meeting. Mentioned how rediculous it was that our players nutrition plan usually resulted at Taco Bell,...and then after pointing out several other shortcomings he threw Trilli under the bus by critically stating.. "FOLKS.... I was at a basketball game the other night here at the Super Pit and your team was losing by 20 to a team that doesn't even give out scholarships!...YOU SIMPLY CANT HAVE THAT!"...and Trilli was standing in the back of the room.

I thought...YES...finally, someone with a sense of reality calling it like it is and people are listening. Unfortunately it was short lived.

Rick

Stallings also stated at that meeting that we had a good stadium (Fouts) and didn't need to build a new one.

FirefightnRick · January 3, 2016

3 hours ago, MCMLXXX said:

Stallings also stated at that meeting that we had a good stadium (Fouts) and didn't need to build a new one.

He said we had a good enough stadium for now and that replacing it shouldn't be a top priority,..that the top priority should be getting bowl eligible over anything else.

Rick

UNT90 · January 3, 2016

And here we sit, years later with a 15 year tenured and failed AD that apparently gets to decide when he leaves the havoc he created.

This truly would happen at no other FBS university in college sports, not even ULM. That is how low UNT continually sets the bar, and that tells EVERY head coach that success is not demanded, and isn't a priority at UNT.

Hence here we sit, a terrible men's basketball, women's basketball, and men's football team. The joke of college athletes in Texas, and would be nationally if anyone outside of Texas bothered to notice.

Only at North Texas.

UNTFan23 · January 3, 2016

4 hours ago, UNT90 said:

And here we sit, years later with a 15 year tenured and failed AD that apparently gets to decide when he leaves the havoc he created.

This truly would happen at no other FBS university in college sports, not even ULM. That is how low UNT continually sets the bar, and that tells EVERY head coach that success is not demanded, and isn't a priority at UNT.

Hence here we sit, a terrible men's basketball, women's basketball, and men's football team. The joke of college athletes in Texas, and would be nationally if anyone outside of Texas bothered to notice.

Only at North Texas.

Women's basketball seems to be doing OK sitting at 6-5, currently with a three win streak and a win against a top 25 ranked Oklahoma in Norman. It might be a little late to call them a horrible team. How about we let the season play out and then judge the team's performance.

UNT90 · January 3, 2016

30 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

Women's basketball seems to be doing OK sitting at 6-5, currently with a three win streak and a win against a top 25 ranked Oklahoma in Norman. It might be a little late to call them a horrible team. How about we let the season play out and then judge the team's performance.

You are right. We don't know, but we do know they were terrible last year. And the year before. Coached by another terrible RV hire.

So the point that this AD has destroyed every revenue sport is correct.

UNTFan23 · January 3, 2016

56 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

You are right. We don't know, but we do know they were terrible last year. And the year before. Coached by another terrible RV hire.

So the point that this AD has destroyed every revenue sport is correct.

Somehow someone could give you correct change and it would still be wrong.

UNT90 · January 4, 2016

On December 31, 2015 at 0:11 AM, Dr. Seuss said:

Huh? By keeping Benford you are using good money to employ a bad coach. Benford's contract is a sunk cost and it shouldn't have any effect on hiring a future head coach.

This whole post makes no sense because I believe RV is on contract until the beginning of 2017 or end of 2016? So the whole "much better way" wont happen. Unless you buy out RV's contract, which is the exact case you're arguing against.

RV is on contract till 2018...

16 hours ago, UNTFan23 said:

Somehow someone could give you correct change and it would still be wrong.

And RV could murder 5 co-eds and you would claim it was the co-eds' fault.

Sad thing is that it really isn't your fault. You have been conditioned for years to expect nothing from UNT athletics, so that's what you do.

UNTFan23 · January 4, 2016

1 hour ago, UNT90 said:

RV is on contract till 2018...

And RV could murder 5 co-eds and you would claim it was the co-eds' fault.

Sad thing is that it really isn't your fault. You have been conditioned for years to expect nothing from UNT athletics, so that's what you do.

I want our teams to win as much as the next person but there is only so much *I* can do about it.

I'll leave this little nugget for you:

UNT90 · January 4, 2016

1 hour ago, UNTFan23 said:

I want our teams to win as much as the next person but there is only so much *I* can do about it.

I'll leave this little nugget for you:

Yet your defense of RV has been pretty unwaivering.

Maybe you just don't care about UNT athletics enough to demand results. And that is probably the most logical path to take with a university that feels the same way.

Don't worry. I'm getting there. Probably another year and I won't give a crap, either.

The funny thing is, if any other program this university sponsored (music, business, accounting, pick any) had suffered from the same lack of success, changes would have been made years ago. But athletics? Who cares.

Only at North Texas.

UNTFan23 · January 4, 2016

3 hours ago, UNT90 said:

Yet your defense of RV has been pretty unwaivering.

Maybe you just don't care about UNT athletics enough to demand results. And that is probably the most logical path to take with a university that feels the same way.

Don't worry. I'm getting there. Probably another year and I won't give a crap, either.

The funny thing is, if any other program this university sponsored (music, business, accounting, pick any) had suffered from the same lack of success, changes would have been made years ago. But athletics? Who cares.

Only at North Texas.

Trust me, I care. If I didn't I would have never donated over the years close to $1,000 to things like the Basketball game Kram helps to put on. I wouldn't be at the current giving level for the Mean Green Club if I didn't care.

So, just because I won't lock arms with you and curse every little thing that goes wrong and then blame it on RV doesn't mean I don't care.

Define lack of success for an academic department compared to athletics, please. It's easy to find the successes for academics but a lot more difficult to find failures or lack of success than compared to athletics.

Edited January 4, 2016 by UNTFan23

UNT90 · January 6, 2016

On January 4, 2016 at 9:55 AM, UNTFan23 said:

Trust me, I care. If I didn't I would have never donated over the years close to $1,000 to things like the Basketball game Kram helps to put on. I wouldn't be at the current giving level for the Mean Green Club if I didn't care.

So, just because I won't lock arms with you and curse every little thing that goes wrong and then blame it on RV doesn't mean I don't care.

Define lack of success for an academic department compared to athletics, please. It's easy to find the successes for academics but a lot more difficult to find failures or lack of success than compared to athletics.

Let's see. How about if the school of music suddenly had enrollment decline by 50%? Don't you think changes would be made?

This athetic year, UNT has seen a major drop in football attendance to go along with a major drop in basketball attendance over the last 3 years. Football and basketball have also seen a complete reversal in won/lost records (kinda like median GPA in a program bottoming out at the same time enrollment goes down 30-50%}.

Do you think there would be panic by the administration? Do you think the department head (let's say he is non-tenured) would keep his job under those conditions? Would that department head have your unwaivering support similar to what you have shown to Rick Villarreal?

I think not. Because UNT cares more about that program than they ever have or ever will about athletics.

KRAM1 · January 6, 2016

2 hours ago, UNT90 said:

Let's see. How about if the school of music suddenly had enrollment decline by 50%? Don't you think changes would be made?

This athetic year, UNT has seen a major drop in football attendance to go along with a major drop in basketball attendance over the last 3 years. Football and basketball have also seen a complete reversal in won/lost records (kinda like median GPA in a program bottoming out at the same time enrollment goes down 30-50%}.

Do you think there would be panic by the administration? Do you think the department head (let's say he is non-tenured) would keep his job under those conditions? Would that department head have your unwaivering support similar to what you have shown to Rick Villarreal?

I think not. Because UNT cares more about that program than they ever have or ever will about athletics.

Hey, I will buy your basketball club seats.