Seth Littrell's Contract Details

[Ben Gooding]

Well, to a certain extent. But the person who is actually responsible is the AD and his promotions people. 

Here's an idea. In the spirit of Coach Littrells contract as discussed in this thread, RV should take a lower salary so he can pay his promotions people a better salary.

How about putting a 25K attendance requirement in RV's contract?

Haha, yeah right. Inserting expectations into his contract after 15 years of none. That'd be a doozy. Or better yet, give the athletic department's marketing and promotion department(s) a $50,000 pool to be allotted evenly to everyone within these two departments as an end of the year bonus in the event that we hit 25K average attendance. 

[Eppie96]

A little disappointed in the salary- I was hoping that we would finally pay a coach 7 figures.  If Littrel has 2-3 winning seasons here, he is on the fast track to really big money.  

If he goes 6-6 next year, we need to bump his salary up to 7 figures.  Our program is a mess, and I don't think he will be able to post a winning record until year 3.  

 

 

[EagleMBA]

Those long-suffering fans of the Marketing/Sales persuasion who post here can better address this point than I can. It seems to me that you get better results when you compensate based on reasonable base salary plus commission versus a fixed, big-ass salary. Why would coaches be different animals? Coach Littrell has a base and incentives that could scare the hell out of $1 Mil by the end of the year if things go well for him, IMO. I don't doubt that he will bust his ass trying...as he should. I personally don't give a damn about what the outside world thinks about our salary structure at this time because I think we are competitive given the shape we're in.

[Ben Gooding]

A little disappointed in the salary- I was hoping that we would finally pay a coach 7 figures.  If Littrel has 2-3 winning seasons here, he is on the fast track to really big money.  

If he goes 6-6 next year, we need to bump his salary up to 7 figures.  Our program is a mess, and I don't think he will be able to post a winning record until year 3.  

 

 

Honest question looking for an honest answer...to you and all...

Why do people believe that we will not sniff 6-6 this year? 

Justify how these games listed below shouldn't at least be highly competitive with some new personnel (incoming freshmen;Jucos/redshirts this year), offensive philosophy, and maybe more importantly a new sense of energy and attitude...

SMU

Bethune-Cookeman 

Army

nutsack

UTEP

A La Tech team that will be completely rebuilding on both sides of the ball

A Rice team that is losing a lot of their key dudes on a team that wasn't really that good to begin with

Also, MUTS and So Miss come to our house next year. 

 

That is 7 games that should, in theory, be very competitive. I don't understand the mindset of not to expect 6-6 until 2018. We were a play or two away from beating UTEP and in my opinion SMU as well. Last year was the worst coached team I have ever seen at any level. Defensive players constantly out of position, personnel underutilized and over-utilized, bad play calling, subpar fundamentals at the LOS on both sides of the ball. The defensive positioning was absolutely atrocious all year long. Coaches play their hand that they have, but the decent coaches put players in the best position to make a play. That was not the case for our team at all. I think that will change tremendously with a new staff. I expect to see a far more disciplined defense that at the very least will be in position to make plays on the ball/ball carrier. I also expect the WR's to be forced into action and be forced to make plays due to the amount of plays that we will run and the way Littrells offense spreads the ball around. Concepts can make a world of difference and I expect to really see a big difference in general stances, alignments, assignments, discipline, etc. 6-6 should by no means be out of the realm of possibilities. 

[rcade]

That interview will most likely never see the light of day. At the end of the day, Sidway is a university employee, and if NT don't want it out there, it won't be out there.

NT Daily reporters are not university employees. If the school told the Daily not to report something, the reporters and editors there would report it -- and report the attempt to censor them.

He didn't respond to you because he wants his very mentioning of posting this interview to go away because he now has leverage over the AD. Leverage that could propel him in his career. 

This is a silly conspiracy theory. Sidway covered FC Dallas, had finals for the fall semester and the Daily doesn't produce editions during finals. All three could have caused him to set aside his RV interview plans until the holidays are over.

Also, RV is by many accounts done when his current contract expires. He's hardly someone you'd curry favor with to build a sports journalism career.

Edited December 23, 2015 by rcade

[Ben Gooding]

NT Daily reporters are not university employees. If the school told the Daily not to report something, the reporters and editors there would report it -- and report the attempt to censor them.

This is a silly conspiracy theory. Sidway covered FC Dallas, had finals for the fall semester and the Daily doesn't produce editions during finals. All three could have caused him to set aside his RV interview plans until the holidays are over.

Also, RV is by many accounts done when his current contract expires. He's hardly someone you'd curry favor with to build a sports journalism career.

I agree, he is hardly someone. But he is someone. 

[Harry]

A little disappointed in the salary- I was hoping that we would finally pay a coach 7 figures.  If Littrel has 2-3 winning seasons here, he is on the fast track to really big money.  

If he goes 6-6 next year, we need to bump his salary up to 7 figures.  Our program is a mess, and I don't think he will be able to post a winning record until year 3.  

 

 

I hear you but we really should wait to see where the assistant pool is after the smoke clears before we make a judgement.  If guys like Patrick and Perry get substantial bumps then you could sense a real across the board compensation lift that is encouraging.  If they don't, and we see small bumps in the DC and OC (remember Chico and Skladany were getting $190K a piece for 2 year deals) then I agree, it is pretty much business as usual.

[oldguystudent]

Those long-suffering fans of the Marketing/Sales persuasion who post here can better address this point than I can. It seems to me that you get better results when you compensate based on reasonable base salary plus commission versus a fixed, big-ass salary. Why would coaches be different animals? Coach Littrell has a base and incentives that could scare the hell out of $1 Mil by the end of the year if things go well for him, IMO. I don't doubt that he will bust his ass trying...as he should. I personally don't give a damn about what the outside world thinks about our salary structure at this time because I think we are competitive given the shape we're in.

It is a strange thing.  My sales days, my bonuses ranged anywhere from 40% to over 100% of my base annual salary.  You bet damn skippy I was out there busting balls to max that thing out.

Now, in accounting, my salary is good for the number of years I've been out of school, but it's static.  You get used to it, and begin to take it for granted.  My bonus generally covers my annual MGC and season tickets, nothing more, so I don't even give it but a mere second thought every once in a while.  I have zero incentive to do my work better, more efficiently, or any other corporate adjective you'd like to inject here.  In fact, I've been very open with management that between their compensation structure and their archaic project management techniques, I'm actually incentivized to do LESS work.  I've got some acknowledgement on that.

Bottom line.  I love to see an incentive laden contract for a coaching position.  That one year of his base salary would buy me about three houses doesn't make me weep for his impending standing in line at the soup kitchen.

[rcade]

After all the talk we'd pay $1 million a year, the actual salary is a bit underwhelming. We'll be paying Littrell a good salary by CUSA standards -- around 3rd or 4th of all the coaches, if I understand how USA Today's http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/rankings work -- but not enough to make the football world think that UNT is stepping up its money game.

The claim he took less pay so assistants could earn more is unproven. Absent a credible source, I am skeptical that is happening.

[ChristopherRyanWilkes]

After all the talk we'd pay $1 million a year, the actual salary is a bit underwhelming. We'll be paying Littrell a good salary by CUSA standards -- around 3rd or 4th of all the coaches, if I understand how USA Today's http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/rankings work -- but not enough to make the football world think that UNT is stepping up its money game.

The claim he took less pay so assistants could earn more is unproven. Absent a credible source, I am skeptical that is happening.

His agent wouldn't let him take that much of a pay cut. Sorry, but no one is that selfless. Maybe 100K less or so but I think our range was lower than stated and there were some exaggerations being perpetuated. History tell us RV is not that good of a negotiator as well. I'm more upset about what was probably an exaggeration of what we had as a potential applicant/candidate pool because we were supposively breaking the bank with this hire.. The fact that he had to take a salary a little more than our last coach just so we could pay the assistants more tells you there is still plenty of budgetary restrictions with this program. That's the discouraging part for me, after all the hype about the donors writing fat checks for this one. 

I hear you but we really should wait to see where the assistant pool is after the smoke clears before we make a judgement.  If guys like Patrick and Perry get substantial bumps then you could sense a real across the board compensation lift that is encouraging.  If they don't, and we see small bumps in the DC and OC (remember Chico and Skladany were getting $190K a piece for 2 year deals) then I agree, it is pretty much business as usual.

I think you nailed it with the business as usually part, I think that's what bothers me. It felt like we were finally about to make a big financial leap and this makes it feel like business as usual. Holding reservations to see assistants pay for sure. 

[UNT90]

I tweeted at Sidway the other day asking when he would post the full RV interview and got no response. He's responded to my tweets before so that's interesting.

I have also. And also no response. He works for UNT, who apparently has quashed that interview to protect Rick Villarreal. He probably got what he could out of the deal.

We all have bosses.

His agent wouldn't let him take that much of a pay cut. Sorry, but no one is that selfless. Maybe 100K less or so but I think our range was lower than stated and there were some exaggerations being perpetuated. History tell us RV is not that good of a negotiator as well. I'm more upset about what was probably an exaggeration of what we had as a potential applicant/candidate pool because we were supposively breaking the bank with this hire.. The fact that he had to take a salary a little more than our last coach just so we could pay the assistants more tells you there is still plenty of budgetary restrictions with this program. That's the discouraging part for me, after all the hype about the donors writing fat checks for this one. 

I think you nailed it with the business as usually part, I think that's what bothers me. It felt like we were finally about to make a big financial leap and this makes it feel like business as usual. Holding reservations to see assistants pay for sure. 

The far checks the donors wrote were to pay off another terrible Rick Villarreal hire. They will be asked to break them out again in about a month or so. Hopefully again right after the holidays, but that is looking less and less likely with every passing day.

Looks like Fly's drinking buddy survives past Benford while numerous alums walk away. 

Such is UNT athletics.

I hear you but we really should wait to see where the assistant pool is after the smoke clears before we make a judgement.  If guys like Patrick and Perry get substantial bumps then you could sense a real across the board compensation lift that is encouraging.  If they don't, and we see small bumps in the DC and OC (remember Chico and Skladany were getting $190K a piece for 2 year deals) then I agree, it is pretty much business as usual.

Why would anyone on the last staff deserve bumps? The DL was awful. Special teams took a huge step back. We had an all-conference FG kicker as a freshman lay a huge turd his sophomore year. 

I wasn't nessarily in favor of retaining anyone from the last staff. If there were 2 I would have given consideration, it would have been these 2, but it wouldn't come with a raise. 

But that's just me. 

Edited December 24, 2015 by UNT90

[greenit]

I swear, the 5 or 6 uber negative 'fans' on this board have poisoned the entire fan base.  

Hard to believe we are complaining that we are paying a HC roughly $800k per year.  As a first time head coach in the first year of his contract, isn't this more than we paid McCarney?  How is this not a step forward?

 

 

[GrandGreen]

Not sure why anyone would be upset that the starting salary is not higher.  The coach was hired, being paid millions a year is not going to make him any better of a coach.  He has a lot of incentives to raise that salary and if RV is still here he will will give him a new contract with any hint of success.   

I am a lot more concerned there is no report of any penalties for leaving early.  Yes, that would probably mean NT is winning; but I have never understood why schools never try to enforce employment contracts. 

[Eppie96]

After all the talk we'd pay $1 million a year, the actual salary is a bit underwhelming. We'll be paying Littrell a good salary by CUSA standards -- around 3rd or 4th of all the coaches, if I understand how USA Today's http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/rankings work -- but not enough to make the football world think that UNT is stepping up its money game.

The claim he took less pay so assistants could earn more is unproven. Absent a credible source, I am skeptical that is happening.

Agree.

Let's compare this to our friends down the road- 2 million for a Clemson OC, or 725K for a UNC  OC.  BIG difference.  Much deeper pockets, but they certainly stepped up to a much higher level.  

I'm a little surprised we got Littrel at that price, but I don't really think he was on any lower tier P5 or higher level G5 HC radar. I had never heard of our last two HC hires- McCarney or Littrel.

[wardly]

With all due respect to KRAM, I would have to see a video of Littrell  turning down money in order to pay his assistant  coaches more before I would believe it. The amount to be paid assistant coaches was increased based upon who he has hired so far for his staff, but it didn't come out of his pocket.The fact that he settled for less than $1million a year tells me that he left money on the table. Regardless of whether he did or didn't, he seems like what the doctor ordered for the worst team in  1A  football,and I wish him well.

[KRAM1]

I swear, the 5 or 6 uber negative 'fans' on this board have poisoned the entire fan base.  

Hard to believe we are complaining that we are paying a HC roughly $800k per year.  As a first time head coach in the first year of his contract, isn't this more than we paid McCarney?  How is this not a step forward?

 

 

Not the entire fan base.  Some see the negativity for what it is and move along.  The problem is that it has "poisoned" a lot of folks from posting on GMG.Com who no longer feel GMG.Com is an "open" forum. The days of "discussions" are gone.  Now we see personal attacks by certain people on a regular basis whenever some folks post anything...even positive comments, and we see the negative folks finding something wrong with every single thing UNT does.  How anyone can find something negative in the hiring of Coach Littrell is just an example of how hard they try to be negative.  Don't let it get you down.  In no way do these negative folks represent the majority of the fan base.  The fan base may be disappointed and down based on recent on-field and on-court performance, but the majority still support the Mean Green, and see plenty to be positive about in its future.  Hang in there.  What these negative folks want is to bring everyone else down to their level.  You know how that works, you see it at your place of employment, in our schools, churches and neighborhoods.  There always seem to be "those people" who are grumpy and see the glass half empty all the time and they love trying to convince others that they are correct in their negativity.  They are the folks people avoid at the Christmas party because even then they find something to complain about.  See it for what it is, consider the source and let it go. Don't let these folks spoil the party.

With all due respect to KRAM, I would have to see a video of Littrell  turning down money in order to pay his assistant  coaches more before I would believe it. The amount to be paid assistant coaches was increased based upon who he has hired so far for his staff, but it didn't come out of his pocket.The fact that he settled for less than $1million a year tells me that he left money on the table. Regardless of whether he did or didn't, he seems like what the doctor ordered for the worst team in  1A  football,and I wish him well.

No offense taken.  You will find no video, of course.  You can believe it or not.  I trust my source as this individual has been spot on with each and every little bit of information provided me throughout the course of this hire...from the day Coach Mac was relieved of his duties.  Besides, like you said, "he seems like just what the doctor ordered."  Thanks for disagreeing with me in a respectful manner....it is just a message board after all.

[SilverEagle]

Honest question looking for an honest answer...to you and all...

Why do people believe that we will not sniff 6-6 this year? 

Justify how these games listed below shouldn't at least be highly competitive with some new personnel (incoming freshmen;Jucos/redshirts this year), offensive philosophy, and maybe more importantly a new sense of energy and attitude...

SMU

Bethune-Cookeman 

Army

nutsack

UTEP

A La Tech team that will be completely rebuilding on both sides of the ball

A Rice team that is losing a lot of their key dudes on a team that wasn't really that good to begin with

Also, MUTS and So Miss come to our house next year. 

 

That is 7 games that should, in theory, be very competitive. I don't understand the mindset of not to expect 6-6 until 2018. We were a play or two away from beating UTEP and in my opinion SMU as well. Last year was the worst coached team I have ever seen at any level. Defensive players constantly out of position, personnel underutilized and over-utilized, bad play calling, subpar fundamentals at the LOS on both sides of the ball. The defensive positioning was absolutely atrocious all year long. Coaches play their hand that they have, but the decent coaches put players in the best position to make a play. That was not the case for our team at all. I think that will change tremendously with a new staff. I expect to see a far more disciplined defense that at the very least will be in position to make plays on the ball/ball carrier. I also expect the WR's to be forced into action and be forced to make plays due to the amount of plays that we will run and the way Littrells offense spreads the ball around. Concepts can make a world of difference and I expect to really see a big difference in general stances, alignments, assignments, discipline, etc. 6-6 should by no means be out of the realm of possibilities. 

I totally agree with your premise and we have historical precedent. In 1972, under Rod Rust, we were 1-10. The next year Hayden Fry took over and cobbled together a football team that had been in disarray and went 5-5-1 and tied for the MVC title. In 1993 Dennis Parker was fired after a 4-7 season. The next year Matt Simon took over Parker's team and went 7-4-1 and won the Southland conference championship (the season ended in the 1-AA playoffs with a loss to Boise St. 20-24 when Mitch Maher was intercepted on a late drive to win the game....by a one armed DB).

The main question in my mind is how well can our new coaching staff coach/motivate a team to play at the top of their game before home crowds that most of them never had to play in front of themselves. From the head coach to both coordinators, their playing experiences were OU/TT/Kansas St. And their coaching experiences have pretty much been the same. All of them playing and coaching in front of a minimum of 45K screaming/adoring fans.

So my question is "can they adapt to our culture"? 

And my second question is "when in God's name is someone in the athletic department and/or our administration going make a serious effort to change our athletic fan base culture"?

 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2015 by SilverEagle

[rcade]

How anyone can find something negative in the hiring of Coach Littrell is just an example of how hard they try to be negative.

You're cheerleading too hard. Just because you like the hire doesn't mean it wasn't open to fair criticism. There's a case to be made we should've gone another direction and hired someone with head coaching experience and a stronger Texas background, just as there was a case to be made when McCarney was hired that he wasn't the right choice. Littrell hasn't proven himself yet, and pretending otherwise just to be go-team-go is a bunch of hot air.

Those of you who think there's too much negativity on GMG should put the blame where it belongs -- on RV. Negative feedback is a rational response to the product he's put out there the past decade.

Edited December 24, 2015 by rcade

[Eagle-96]

The aspect of the contract I like the most are the wins based incentives. $$$ for wins over 5 as wells as winning the West and/or getting to a bowl game provides some real incentive to WIN and not just hold onto the ball and run clock on offense so the other team doesn't run up the score and make us look bad. I want a coach who isn't afraid to take chances and lays it all out there. Mitigating disaster is for Emergency Management majors not head football coaches.

[SilverEagle]

The aspect of the contract I like the most are the wins based incentives. $$$ for wins over 5 as wells as winning the West and/or getting to a bowl game provides some real incentive to WIN and not just hold onto the ball and run clock on offense so the other team doesn't run up the score and make us look bad. I want a coach who isn't afraid to take chances and lays it all out there. Mitigating disaster is for Emergency Management majors not head football coaches.

One of the best quotes I've heard in a long time. Good job!

[KRAM1]

You're cheerleading too hard. Just because you like the hire doesn't mean it wasn't open to fair criticism. There's a case to be made we should've gone another direction and hired someone with head coaching experience and a stronger Texas background, just as there was a case to be made when McCarney was hired that he wasn't the right choice. Littrell hasn't proven himself yet, and pretending otherwise just to be go-team-go is a bunch of hot air.

Those of you who think there's too much negativity on GMG should put the blame where it belongs -- on RV. Negative feedback is a rationale response to the product he's put out there the past decade.

The constant negativity is not fair criticism.  It is from the same folks who constantly find something to complain about in everything UNT.  Constant negativity is not "fair criticism".  Something about a rumpled $100 bill comes to mind.  But, you really did know this already.

[rcade]

The constant negativity is not fair criticism.  It is from the same folks who constantly find something to complain about in everything UNT.  Constant negativity is not "fair criticism".  Something about a rumpled $100 bill comes to mind.  But, you really did know this already.

What I know is that you're trying too hard to police the tone around here. Even if that was a worthy use of your time, it's futile. Until we start producing Ws, a lot of longtime Mean Green fans just as committed to the school as you are will be completely fed up.

[Eagle-96]

What I know is that you're trying too hard to police the tone around here. Even if that was a worthy use of your time, it's futile. Until we start producing Ws, a lot of longtime Mean Green fans just as committed to the school as you are will be completely fed up.

Just do it like they do in Olympic Ice Skating(it really is a dazzling sport). Throw out the high and low scores from the judges and then average everyone else. 

[UNT90]

I had never heard of our last two HC hires- McCarney or Littrel.

...

The constant negativity is not fair criticism.  It is from the same folks who constantly find something to complain about in everything UNT.  Constant negativity is not "fair criticism".  Something about a rumpled $100 bill comes to mind.  But, you really did know this already.

From the same guy who will say "I didn't hear anyone complaining when he was hired!" In 3 years if he fails.

Not a fan of this hire. I'll say it long and loud so if failure happens you can't yet again parrot the AD talking points. 

Funny game you play. 

Not the entire fan base.  Some see the negativity for what it is and move along.  The problem is that it has "poisoned" a lot of folks from posting on GMG.Com who no longer feel GMG.Com is an "open" forum. The days of "discussions" are gone.  Now we see personal attacks by certain people on a regular basis whenever some folks post anything...even positive comments, and we see the negative folks finding something wrong with every single thing UNT does.  How anyone can find something negative in the hiring of Coach Littrell is just an example of how hard they try to be negative.  Don't let it get you down.  In no way do these negative folks represent the majority of the fan base.  The fan base may be disappointed and down based on recent on-field and on-court performance, but the majority still support the Mean Green, and see plenty to be positive about in its future.  Hang in there.  What these negative folks want is to bring everyone else down to their level.  You know how that works, you see it at your place of employment, in our schools, churches and neighborhoods.  There always seem to be "those people" who are grumpy and see the glass half empty all the time and they love trying to convince others that they are correct in their negativity.  They are the folks people avoid at the Christmas party because even then they find something to complain about.  See it for what it is, consider the source and let it go. Don't let these folks spoil the party.

No offense taken.  You will find no video, of course.  You can believe it or not.  I trust my source as this individual has been spot on with each and every little bit of information provided me throughout the course of this hire...from the day Coach Mac was relieved of his duties.  Besides, like you said, "he seems like just what the doctor ordered."  Thanks for disagreeing with me in a respectful manner....it is just a message board after all.

This is funny. Mark, you are the king of the passive/aggressive personal attack on here. And you will cry to the moderators in a NY second if your feelings get hurt or to silent an opposing view.

UNT's crappy performance in EVERY revenue sport has much more to do with people not posting than opposing opinions. 

Maybe a respectful dialog and not complaining to mods or sending longwinded PMs telling people how they should think would be a better approach.

But that's just me. 

(I have never complained to a mod about any post on this board, because it's simply silly to do so. The only time I have had contact with mods is in an attempt to stop someone from being banned for something they said about me. If you can't take the heat, stay the F out of the kitchen). 

Edited December 25, 2015 by UNT90

[GangGreen]

 If you can't take the heat, stay the Fouts of the kitchen). 

fify