7 Of The 10 Eleven-Man 2015 Texas State Champions...

FirefightnRick · December 22, 2015

....threw the ball 16 times or fewer, 8 of them threw it 20 times or fewer, and of those 8 teams all but one utilized a dominant,..option and/or triple option ground game to win their championship. Most of these teams always had lead blocking inside and out. Outside blocking seemed to use at least a pulling lineman if not two. Katy was the exception. They run a version of the veer out of the "I" formation and straight up pound it down your throat. And three other losing teams were run oriented as well.

So considering the thinking around here is that "Today's high school recruits only want to play for college teams that run the "fun"..spread and throw it all over the place offenses"...as opposed to the triple option and multiple option from the pistol,...I wonder where all these state champions are going to play in college? I mean..they all can't play for the academies and Ga.Tech, New Mexico and Georgia Southern? AMIRIGHT?

Rick

Eagle-96 · December 22, 2015

....threw the ball 16 times or fewer, 8 of them threw it 20 times or fewer, and of those 8 teams all but one utilized a dominant,..option and/or triple option ground game to win their championship. Most of these teams always had lead blocking inside and out. Outside blocking seemed to use at least a pulling lineman if not two. Katy was the exception. They run a version of the veer out of the "I" formation and straight up pound it down your throat. And three other losing teams were run oriented as well.
So considering the thinking around here is that "Today's high school recruits only want to play for college teams that run the "fun"..spread and throw it all over the place offenses"...as opposed to the triple option and multiple option from the pistol,...I wonder where all these state champions are going to play in college? I mean..they all can't play for the academies and Ga.Tech, New Mexico and Georgia Southern? AMIRIGHT?

Rick

61% of high schools nationwide run a variation of the spread. The next closest offense is the Wing T which is run by 11%. The fact remains that most high school kids are familiar with the spread in some form. There are more players that run a variation of the spread in high school making the transition easier to running it in college. i.e( we have more players to choose from now that we run the spread). These kids play football at the high schools they do because of the town they live in. They don't have a choice in what their coach runs. Ask them and they will tell you that they WANT to play in a spread offense so that they blow up their stats and get the hot chicks that dig them stats man.

HoustonEagle · December 22, 2015

....threw the ball 16 times or fewer, 8 of them threw it 20 times or fewer, and of those 8 teams all but one utilized a dominant,..option and/or triple option ground game to win their championship. Most of these teams always had lead blocking inside and out. Outside blocking seemed to use at least a pulling lineman if not two. Katy was the exception. They run a version of the veer out of the "I" formation and straight up pound it down your throat. And three other losing teams were run oriented as well.
So considering the thinking around here is that "Today's high school recruits only want to play for college teams that run the "fun"..spread and throw it all over the place offenses"...as opposed to the triple option and multiple option from the pistol,...I wonder where all these state champions are going to play in college? I mean..they all can't play for the academies and Ga.Tech, New Mexico and Georgia Southern? AMIRIGHT?

Rick

Your comments aside I am believer that it is more advantageous to run an offense that is different from conventional wisdom. Which is not the direction we are going. There is a very real possibility that the next wave of thinking in High School and College Football is to come up with new and clever run based offenses. Which, as history always proves, will be something old that is polished up to look modern and fresh.

Edited December 22, 2015 by HoustonEagle

unt_rocket09 · December 22, 2015

A lot of teams run the rock out of the spread. Nothing new.

Aldo · December 22, 2015

AMIRIGHT?

Maybe?

If we run it more than we did last year, I will be happy.

Because it means our offense is on the move.

FirefightnRick · December 23, 2015

A lot of teams run the rock out of the spread. Nothing new.

Yeah...and in this case, a lot of losing non-State Champion teams do because all but two or three of the 10 state champions DON'T.

Rick

....they WANT to play in a spread offense so that they blow up their stats and get the hot chicks that dig them stats man.

If asked I'd bet they'd believe they would get more hot chicks as winners than stat-building losers.

Rick

Edited December 23, 2015 by FirefightnRick

BillySee58 · December 23, 2015

That's because in high school you just put the ball in the hands of your best athletes, and there's such a big gap in ability between them and most players that they can take care of the rest. If you don't have a legit D1 QB then why try getting the ball downfield to your one or two stars when you can just hand them the ball and get 8 yards every carry?

Usually I think people made that comment regarding quarterbacks not wanting to play primarily under center, and wanting to play in a spread offense. I think that hurt us, but not as much as having an awful recruiting staff and HC/OC combo. We didn't recruit great at QB, but we really weren't recruiting any worse at QB than other positions.

VideoEagle · December 23, 2015

We didn't recruit great at QB, but we really weren't recruiting any worse at QB than other positions.

Yes, this is exactly correct.

FirefightnRick · December 23, 2015

If you don't have a legit D1 QB then why try getting the ball downfield to your one or two stars...

That's a great question? Very few high schools have a legit D1 QB yet a crap load of them continue to throw it around like they think they do. I guess a state championship isn't everyone's goal?

Rick

BillySee58 · December 23, 2015

That's a great question? Very few high schools have a legit D1 QB yet a crap load of them continue to throw it around like they think they do. I guess a state championship isn't everyone's goal?

Rick

If you don't have the elite athletes to hand the ball off/use as a primarily running QB then running a spread and trying to spread the ball around gives you a higher ceiling. Which isn't a state championship either way if you don't have elite players.

GMG24 · December 23, 2015

If you don't have the elite athletes to hand the ball off/use as a primarily running QB then running a spread and trying to spread the ball around gives you a higher ceiling. Which isn't a state championship either way if you don't have elite players.

it doesn't fit his narrative...

FirefightnRick · December 23, 2015

If you don't have the elite athletes to hand the ball off/use as a primarily running QB then running a spread and trying to spread the ball around gives you a higher ceiling. Which isn't a state championship either way if you don't have elite players.

Westlake, Lake Travis, and several others had "ELITE ATHLETES" and couldn't beat the run teams with them.

Brock and George Ranch,..in existence all of 3 years..maybe four,..and dominate. Brock doesn't get Elite Athletes, and George Ranch,..although has a great running back, had a 6'0" 250 lb right guard leading the way.

Could this be the beginning of the trend starting to turn back to the days of the wish bone and the triple option in high school?

Rick

it doesn't fit his narrative...

Yeah...and it's a pretty good one too.

Rick

Edited December 23, 2015 by FirefightnRick

Mike Jackson · December 23, 2015

I agree having a coach that runs a version of the spread offense is not the end all. However if you have a coach that is very good at coaching defenses to stop spread offenses that could be special. I like how Stanford runs their program. It seems like they are comfortable running 60% of the time or passing 60% of the time depending on the match up they have. They have no problems recruiting high quality QB's either.

BillySee58 · December 23, 2015

Westlake, Lake Travis, and several others had "ELITE ATHLETES" and couldn't beat the run teams with them.

That is not true. They had good high school players, but not elite athletes. Other than Westlake's QB Ehlinger, neither team had legitimate P5-caliber playmakers. And he was elite as a passer, not as much as a runner.

Brock and George Ranch,..in existence all of 3 years..maybe four,..and dominate. Brock doesn't get Elite Athletes, and George Ranch,..although has a great running back, had a 6'0" 250 lb right guard leading the way.

Yeah, Anderson from George Ranch is an elite athlete. Multiple P5 offers including Texas. I don't get what you're trying to say about a 6'0" 250 lb guard. Are you implying that's small? Because that's a pretty good sized high school guard.

FirefightnRick · December 23, 2015

That is not true. They had good high school players, but not elite athletes. Other than Westlake's QB Ehlinger, neither team had legitimate P5-caliber playmakers. And he was elite as a passer, not as much as a runner.

So Westlake beat a massive team the size of Allen with one elite athlete?

Rick

BillySee58 · December 23, 2015

Could this be the beginning of the trend starting to turn back to the days of the wish bone and the triple option in high school?

You're trying to make this a black and white thing, and it's not. There are always going to be great teams that run the ball a lot and win state titles. Especially when they have elite athletes who are going to BIGXII or other P5 schools.

Trinity was the dominant team a few years back when I played, because they had big offensive lines and elite athletes like Brandon Carter. What does that have to do with whether or not D1-caliber QB prospects care about what offense they're going to play in in college? Nothing.

Like I said, having a spread offense does help get good QB recruits, but obviously recruiting has to be there. And you can recruit good QBs to less-spread offenses, it's just at least a little harder.

So Westlake beat a massive team the size of Allen with one elite athlete?

Rick

Yes. They had a good team, and played a good game. Allen was vulnerable with their QB play. P5 college coaches agree that Westlake has just one elite athlete, too.

Edited December 23, 2015 by BillySee58

FirefightnRick · December 23, 2015

You're trying to make this a black and white thing, and it's not. There are always going to be great teams that run the ball a lot and win state titles. Especially when they have elite athletes who are going to BIGXII schools.
Trinity was the dominant team a few years back when I played, because they had big offensive lines and elite athletes like Brandon Carter. What does that have to do with whether or not D1-caliber QB prospects care about what offense they're going to play in in college? Nothing.
Like I said, having a spread offense does help get good QB recruits, but obviously recruiting has to be there. And you can recruit good QBs to less-spread offenses, it's just at least a little harder.

no..I'm not making it a black and white issue. Those who claim recruits won't play for a program that runs a triple option are. I don't remember if your one of them or not. Nor do I care.

As I've said before..many times now, most recruits want playing time in a program that has a chance to win.

Rick

BillySee58 · December 23, 2015

no..I'm not making it a black and white issue. Those who claim recruits won't play for a program that runs a triple option are. I don't remember if your one of them or not. Nor do I care.
As I've said before..many times now, most recruits want playing time in a program that has a chance to win.

Rick

Did you forget the post you quoted me in? Look what I said at the bottom.

It's easier to get a kid when he knows he'll be a primary focus as a QB. But yeah, that was only a part of Mccarney's problem. It was just recruiting in general.

Basically Littrell is a better recruiter than Mac and has an offense that makes it at least a little easier to recruit to than what Mac wanted to do.

UNTLifer · December 23, 2015

How many colleges at the FCS/FBS level run the triple option versus a pro style or pass heavy offense?

Edited December 23, 2015 by UNTLifer

FirefightnRick · December 23, 2015

P5 college coaches agree that Westlake has just one elite athlete, too.

Yeah,..those same programs thought that about Kyler Murray and Kyle Allen too.

That reminds me..how many "Elite" athletes did Portland Stste have?

Rick

Basically Littrell is a better recruiter at schools he's never had to struggle to recruit to than Mac was at North Texas.

FIFY

Rick

greenminer · December 23, 2015

I'm tempted to start a poll to gauge how many think Littrell will fail, but maybe it's not needed.

FirefightnRick · December 23, 2015

maybe it's not needed.

Maybe in another thread?

This thread was just meant to point out that during America's current love affair for the Shuck and Duck that a majority of HS's in Texas won State Championships last week with kids in triple option/multi-option run first offenses.

Rick

SilverEagle · December 23, 2015

Your comments aside I am believer that it is more advantageous to run an offense that is different from conventional wisdom. Which is not the direction we are going. There is a very real possibility that the next wave of thinking in High School and College Football is to come up with new and clever run based offenses. Which, as history always proves, will be something old that is polished up to look modern and fresh.

I remember watching the Urban Myers-coached Utah team play for the first time with Smith at QB. After a few series my comment about their offense was that it looked like an inverted wishbone with almost equal parts passing and running. I don't think I've seen an offense like it since. But it could be that what Myers had created was something that was ideally suited to the players he had on hand.

I remember that starting in the mid-80's Corkey Nelson went from his favorite offense, the veer, to the old wishbone, and then the "flying wishbone", all in a span of about 4 years. It all had to do with the talent that he had on-hand, and his willingness to "adjust". Regarding going back to the wishbone, it helped that he had Chuck Mills as one of his assistants. Mills ran the "bone" when he was a high school coach. And in the case of Decatur, he ran it very well.

UNT90 · December 23, 2015

Did you forget the post you quoted me in? Look what I said at the bottom.
It's easier to get a kid when he knows he'll be a primary focus as a QB. But yeah, that was only a part of Mccarney's problem. It was just recruiting in general.
Basically Littrell is a better recruiter than Mac and has an offense that makes it at least a little easier to recruit to than what Mac wanted to do.

It will be interesting to see if Littrell recruits any better than DMac. I know you will say a tree stump could recruit better, but it still wil be interesting to see how Littrell's first real class (2017) stacks up against Mac's first real class (2012, which was pretty awful, as I recall).

I don't buy that Littrell will out-recruit Mac simply by stepping on (or off, for that matter) campus. I think the perceived culture of UNT is going to be a huge hurdle for Littrell with kids with multiple offers.

Popcorn ready.

Eagle-96 · December 23, 2015

It will be interesting to see if Littrell recruits any better than DMac. I know you will say a tree stump could recruit better, but it still wil be interesting to see how Littrell's first real class (2017) stacks up against Mac's first real class (2012, which was pretty awful, as I recall).
I don't buy that Littrell will out-recruit Mac simply by stepping on (or off, for that matter) campus. I think the perceived culture of UNT is going to be a huge hurdle for Littrell with kids with multiple offers.
Popcorn ready.

It will be interesting indeed. Kids just don't hold UNT in high regard right now and haven't for some time. One way into their minds is through their coaches. Texas high school coaches have big egos and they need to be stroked. Littrell is out there pressing the flesh with the guys that can influence decisions. I realize that kids are going to choose colleges based on their own criteria(playing time, TV time, winning, education quality). One of the factors is the opinion of the high school coach and some coaches have considerable sway over where these kids end up. For some of these kids their high school coach is one of the main male influences in their life and they value their opinion. I've seen statements that Mac simply stopped contact with high schools. Just stopped coming around. Stopped calling. High school coaches remember that. Recruiting to UNT needs ALL the help it can get and I like the fact that Littrell is out there letting coaches know who he is and what UNT is about. Will this help our classes? Time will tell.