Developing: One dead after shots fired on Fry Street

[EagleMBA]

This video link from All About's post is a very lifelike training situation. It shows how much time you have to react when someone is 21' away. +1 to him, btw.

 

[rcade]

You will not hear the officer's or an official version of the witnesses accounts of events until after the grand jury investigation is complete, AS REQUIRED BY TEXAS LAW.

I was a news reporter for over a decade at the Star-Telegram. Police often told us an account of what happened in a shooting, based on the officers and witnesses who were there, long before any investigations could be completed.

Police departments choosing to provide little information after a shooting is a good way to make the public suspicious.

[Harry]

That video is really telling.  It can happen so quickly.

[UNT90]

I was a news reporter for over a decade at the Star-Telegram. Police often told us an account of what happened in a shooting, based on the officers and witnesses who were there, long before any investigations could be completed.

Police departments choosing to provide little information after a shooting is a good way to make the public suspicious.

You were given abut the same info that has been released so far in this deal. Much more will be available after the grand jury. 

People are going to do what they are going to do. If they are distrustful of police, getting that info out more quickly (and possibly less accurately) isn't going to help a thing.

Yes, you get canned statements from the PIO, but little meat. 

[greenit]

If the statements can be believed, it appears that the kid was given a couple of warnings, but from accounts it does not sound like the kid was in his right mind.  Truly unfortunate and tragic ending.

 

 

 

[rcade]

You were given abut the same info that has been released so far in this deal. Much more will be available after the grand jury. 

True, but it wouldn't take much information for cops to quell a lot of speculation and doubt: Where did the cop encounter McMillan, what words (if any) were exchanged, how far were they apart and what did McMillan do before the cop fired?

I passed along a tip about the Reddit user to the NT Daily. If he checks out as legitimate, his account helps clarify what appears to have taken place.

[Harry]

Washington Post Article

[UNT90]

True, but it wouldn't take much information for cops to quell a lot of speculation and doubt: Where did the cop encounter McMillan, what words (if any) were exchanged, how far were they apart and what did McMillan do before the cop fired?

I passed along a tip about the Reddit user to the NT Daily. If he checks out as legitimate, his account helps clarify what appears to have taken place.

does it? Because he faces no penalty if he lies. 

I really hate this 3 year old mentality of wanting it and wanting it now that has developed over the last 7 years (what a coincidence) when police involved shootings occur. It encourages sloppy police work and lying for attention. 

Like it or not, a lot of people want their 15, and will do anything to get it.

[rcade]

I really hate this 3 year old mentality of wanting it and wanting it now that has developed over the last 7 years (what a coincidence) when police involved shootings occur.

I know you want to blame Obama, but you're out of your mind if you think this is a new mentality. The public has always wanted information quickly after a police shooting or a major crime. They want that information so much I earned a bachelor's degree in providing it. (In hindsight, I should've double-majored. I do most of my work now in computer science.)

Edited December 15, 2015 by rcade

[UNT90]

I know you want to blame Obama, but you're out of your mind if you think this is a new mentality. The public has always wanted information quickly after a police shooting or a major crime. They want that information so much I earned a bachelor's degree in providing it. (In hindsight, I should've double-majored. I do most of my work now in computer science.)

Wanting and demanding are 2 different things. A LOT has changed because of politics in this nation the last 7 years, specifically where police shootings are concerned. 

Lets just hope the UNT campus doesn't have to deal with a bunch of out of town, paid protesters. 

[ChristopherRyanWilkes]

Correct, not to mention the fact that the guy could have taken one of their vehicles and become a much larger threat to population in general.

Terrible tactics. A fortunate outcome.

Just because they had an EXTREMELY fortunate outcome doesn't mean they were safe in what they did, for themselves, and much more importantly, for the community they protect. 

I wouldn't believe anything you read on social media about this, one way or the other. 

An eyewitness claiming to have been there at the last moment of the confrontation

https://www.reddit.com/r/Dallas/comments/3wsl1n/unt_police_kills_student_wielding_an_axe/

 

 

This Reddit post corroborates with what the person posted on their social media account. Not sure if it's the same person. I mean, I guess you can always be skeptical about social media but not sure why someone would make this up and post on their personal Facebook page and it just happens to match with other witnesses. Either way, disturbing series of events. 

[Rudy]

That video is really telling.  It can happen so quickly.

Try having a guy a full body suit act combative and belligerent throw things at you and then charge at you with a training knife, and you have to decide whether to taze or shoot, and if your taser malfunctions, either reload or transition to deadly force. All in less than 5 seconds.

[UNTpolitico]

I will add based on social media.. Our college of music and art and design must have a heck of a program on force escalation and weapons tactics because we have a lot of "experts" from there.

[foutsrouts]

Wanting and demanding are 2 different things. A LOT has changed because of politics in this nation the last 7 years, specifically where police shootings are concerned. 

Lets just hope the UNT campus doesn't have to deal with a bunch of out of town, paid protesters. 

Unlikely to happen for obvious reasons. Maybe I missed it, but I'm yet to notice a White Lives Matter movement. This was a very sad incident, but we all have to recognize that a certain percentage of people out there are potentially loose cannons who cannot control themselves when exposed to drugs/alcohol, adversity, or whatever. I do think that our militarized police forces across the country are a little too quick to shoot first and ask questions later these days, but every situation is different and cops have to protect their own lives.

IMO, a lot of what is going on nationwide is related to the mindset of some of our ex-military guys who went through hell overseas and are now patrolling our streets. I'm not trying to bash our brave military in any way, but there also seemed to be a similar police mentality after Vietnam, and those guys back in the late 70's into the 80's era didn't have to deal with our current terrorism situation. Nor did they have big brother watching them in the form of surveillance technology. It's a tough job and I'm glad I don't have to do it. 

[Censored by Laurie]

I'm yet to notice a White Lives Matter movement. 

well...Jamestown was founded in 1607. just work forward from there. 

[UNTFan23]

Unlikely to happen for obvious reasons. Maybe I missed it, but I'm yet to notice a White Lives Matter movement. This was a very sad incident, but we all have to recognize that a certain percentage of people out there are potentially loose cannons who cannot control themselves when exposed to drugs/alcohol, adversity, or whatever. I do think that our militarized police forces across the country are a little too quick to shoot first and ask questions later these days, but every situation is different and cops have to protect their own lives.

IMO, a lot of what is going on nationwide is related to the mindset of some of our ex-military guys who went through hell overseas and are now patrolling our streets. I'm not trying to bash our brave military in any way, but there also seemed to be a similar police mentality after Vietnam, and those guys back in the late 70's into the 80's era didn't have to deal with our current terrorism situation. Nor did they have big brother watching them in the form of surveillance technology. It's a tough job and I'm glad I don't have to do it. 

Militarized how?  Are we talking about when they have to respond to extreme conditions like riots, acts of terrorism, and active shooters or just when they are out on patrol?

Let's also remember that our police are first responders for acts of terrorism and active shooters, so they need to have proper "gear" to keep us as safe as possible.

[UNT90]

well...Jamestown was founded in 1607. just work forward from there. 

So much white guilt. Someday you may learn to love yourself.

[EagleGreen]

This video link from All About's post is a very lifelike training situation. It shows how much time you have to react when someone is 21' away. +1 to him, btw.

 

I think we all know this is a training exercise to gauge reaction time, and certainly not an exercise in how to deal with a person with an axe at 21 feet.  

[Rudy]

The "militarization" of police is bunk. Police in this country have always been the first line of defense on our own soil. Chicago PD even had the Tommy Gun before the army. Law enforcement needs the best tools to fight a variety of threats, that includes the scary armored vehicles which are used to evacuate victims when there is an active threat or when approaching a dangerous vehicle just like in San Bernardino. And there is a need for the scary camouflage uniforms, like when Pennsylvania and New York officers needed to search wooded areas for killers. People want to complain that we look too "scary". The truth is, I want to look scary. I want to show up at a domestic violence scene, and armed robbery, or that traffic stop with a cartel member, and I want that bad guy to ask himself, "Is he about to kick my ass.". Now yes. There is a fine line between being courteous and a hard ass, but we walk it and have to transition back and forth during the day, and even on the same call. As for the military comment, anyone who leaves the military and then goes into law enforcement has to go through the same training a 22 year old college graduate. They don't get any breaks or special treatment. That's one reason why I was opposed to the bill Chris Kyle wanted to get passed to speed up former military in getting hired as LEOs.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Rudy

[EagleMBA]

I think we all know this is a training exercise to gauge reaction time, and certainly not an exercise in how to deal with a person with an axe at 21 feet.  

Agreed. This is not role playing, nor intended to be. This armed person knows what is coming and still the target is within an axe swing, knife stab, pipe upside the head, etc.,  before getting a shot off. If the armed person was engaged in conversation or otherwise distracted by the target, thus slowing reaction time, this might not end well.

Edited December 15, 2015 by EagleMBA

[Rudy]

I understand and have no problem with scrutiny of law enforcement. My issue is that I think people have a hard on with going after cops, when there are other professions which are just as critical, that don't receive the microscope.

 

Perfect example. Since early spring, my mom has had shortness of breath and fatigue issues.  She's had a heart murmur for 30+ years. The doctor's office she was going to just though the had high blood pressure and continously prescribed more and more medication. She decided to get a second opinion last month, and within 5 minutes, she was told she needed open heart surgery to correct the murmur. In addition to that, she had to have other work done while they fixed that, she has other health issues, not to mention the added doctor visits and unnecessary medication she had been taken. There won't be any protests for her. There won't be any rioting, there won't be any bureaucrats from DC coming down to investigate and try to put the other doctor in prison.

 

Do you see my point?

[risinggreen]

I understand and have no problem with scrutiny of law enforcement. My issue is that I think people have a hard on with going after cops, when there are other professions which are just as critical, that don't receive the microscope.

 

Perfect example. Since early spring, my mom has had shortness of breath and fatigue issues.  She's had a heart murmur for 30+ years. The doctor's office she was going to just though the had high blood pressure and continously prescribed more and more medication. She decided to get a second opinion last month, and within 5 minutes, she was told she needed open heart surgery to correct the murmur. In addition to that, she had to have other work done while they fixed that, she has other health issues, not to mention the added doctor visits and unnecessary medication she had been taken. There won't be any protests for her. There won't be any rioting, there won't be any bureaucrats from DC coming down to investigate and try to put the other doctor in prison.

 

Do you see my point?

The recent riots and protests are virtually all related to perceived racial bias, and that's usually not an issue when dealing with doctors. Also, people are naturally more likely to be angered in mass by alleged abuses committed by mobile firearm packing public servants, than they are by doctors sitting in offices and hospitals packing scalpels and waiting for you to come to them.

Unless you're heading to an emergency room, you often have control over who will be your doctor, whereas you have zero control over which cop you involuntarily deal with on the street. I hope your mom is doing well by the way, and it sounds like her doctor should be flogged and then sued. 

[rcade]

The truth is, I want to look scary. I want to show up at a domestic violence scene, and armed robbery, or that traffic stop with a cartel member, and I want that bad guy to ask himself, "Is he about to kick my ass.".

The problem with this idea is that bad guys aren't the only kind of people who see you looking scary. If you're dressed like a soldier going house to house in Fallujah, what do you think innocent people and children are going to make of that? There's a societal cost to police looking militarized, and I think it also affects the mindset of some cops and members of the public. It makes police work into an us vs. them situation.

Edited December 16, 2015 by rcade

[Rudy]

There is a difference to looking like a soldier in Fallujah and wearing BDU's and/or an external vest carrier with gear. And no, we may look scary to the innocent people too, but if it comes down to it, you want the bad guys being scared, and I will use my personality to ease your mind.

[UNT90]

Unlikely to happen for obvious reasons. Maybe I missed it, but I'm yet to notice a White Lives Matter movement. This was a very sad incident, but we all have to recognize that a certain percentage of people out there are potentially loose cannons who cannot control themselves when exposed to drugs/alcohol, adversity, or whatever. I do think that our militarized police forces across the country are a little too quick to shoot first and ask questions later these days, but every situation is different and cops have to protect their own lives.

IMO, a lot of what is going on nationwide is related to the mindset of some of our ex-military guys who went through hell overseas and are now patrolling our streets. I'm not trying to bash our brave military in any way, but there also seemed to be a similar police mentality after Vietnam, and those guys back in the late 70's into the 80's era didn't have to deal with our current terrorism situation. Nor did they have big brother watching them in the form of surveillance technology. It's a tough job and I'm glad I don't have to do it. 

Don't buy into the far far right bulsh that local police are "over-militarized." If anything, they often find themselves out gunned in armed confrontations. Also, very few of the shooting incidents involve veterans from the Iraq or Afghanistan wars. Defensive tactics for police have changed very little since 2001, with the biggest change being the addition of the taser to the tool box. And the taser was simply inserted into the force continuum at local departments.

If you want to know what started the heavier arming of local police departments, here is your answer. Notice how the police have to commandeer a civilian armored car to rescue officers and civilians: