Developing: One dead after shots fired on Fry Street

[UNTFan23]

If the suspect is only 5 or 6 feet away from an officer, even with the officer's gun drawn there is really nothing to stop someone with an ax/hatchet even if they are not displaying/holding the weapon in a threatening manor, from getting off a swing of the weapon thus possibly injuring/killing the officer before he/she has a chance to disable the suspect.  If the suspect is not disabled by the officer but the officer is disabled, then that puts people in the immediate area at risk.

While the officer knows the suspect has the ax/hatchet, the officer doesn't know if he/she has any other weapons (like a gun) and can't risk the safety of other people.  The suspect forced the officer's hand and lethal force had to be applied.  Again, had insufficient force been applied and other people been injured, people would have howled and complained how the police didn't do enough.

It's always an unfortunate event when an officer has to draw his weapon and shoot/kill someone but the main purpose of our police is to serve and protect. They can't protect us if they are injured/killed by someone who means to do harm.

[ChristopherRyanWilkes]

If the suspect is only 5 or 6 feet away from an officer, even with the officer's gun drawn there is really nothing to stop someone with an ax/hatchet even if they are not displaying/holding the weapon in a threatening manor, from getting off a swing of the weapon thus possibly injuring/killing the officer before he/she has a chance to disable the suspect.  If the suspect is not disabled by the officer but the officer is disabled, then that puts people in the immediate area at risk.

While the officer knows the suspect has the ax/hatchet, the officer doesn't know if he/she has any other weapons (like a gun) and can't risk the safety of other people.  The suspect forced the officer's hand and lethal force had to be applied.  Again, had insufficient force been applied and other people been injured, people would have howled and complained how the police didn't do enough.

It's always an unfortunate event when an officer has to draw his weapon and shoot/kill someone but the main purpose of our police is to serve and protect. They can't protect us if they are injured/killed by someone who means to do harm.

Yeah and a disabled officer also leaves the suspect with access to the officer's weapon. This is why even unarmed suspects sometime get taken down, they can't risk being knocked out during physical confrontation with their weapon left vulnerable. Especially in situations like this where back-up had not arrived yet. 

[UNTexas]

FYI - people keep saying tase the guy or shot him in the leg. A law enforcement officer shouldn't deploy a taser or any other non lethal force when faced with a life threatening situation, like a man charging you with a tomahawk screaming shot me. Police shot to kill, not slow down. Guns are made to kill. This isn't Hollywood. Tasers are great for naked streakers at sporting events. Additionally, the officer was solo and you don't taser people solo. Cops have been killed trying that.

So, here in the real world, this officer did his job and deserves the our appreciation for preventing harm to the community by the recently departed. He went home safe too. Not much else to talk about if this is an intelligent conversation. 

Edited December 18, 2015 by UNTexas

[meangreenacct]

Some would say I'm a pretty liberal guy, but I don't see what else the officer should have done? If you want to end up shot, keep advancing with a weapon in your hand with a gun pointed at you. I can imagine the last thing that officer thought he would do when he came to work is discharge his weapon. Although the time between firing and arriving on the scene was short, doesn't make it any less justified. Bad situation for all involved, as a young man's family has to cope with the loss of a loved one, and the officer has to carry what happened with him throughout his career - which no doubt isn't easy even in a situation that's completely justified.

As to the "not guilty" comment, should never even be charged.

[EagleMBA]

FYI - people keep saying tase the guy or shot him in the leg. A law enforcement officer shouldn't deploy a taser or any other non lethal force when faced with a life threatening situation, like a man charging you with a tomahawk screaming shot me. Police shot to kill, not slow down. Guns are made to kill. This isn't Hollywood. Tasers are great for naked streakers at sporting events. Additionally, the officer was solo and you don't taser people solo. Cops have been killed trying that.

So, in the here in the real world, this officer did his job and deserves the our appreciation for preventing harm to the community by the recently departed. He went home safe too. Not much else to talk about if this is an intelligent conversation. 

Agree. People say stuff like "shoot in the leg" not thinking of the unintended consequences, like where does that round go if it misses the perp's leg? What about innocent bystanders? That is another reason, besides stopping the threat ASAP, that the officer is taught to aim for the body mass.

Edited December 17, 2015 by EagleMBA

[oldguystudent]

Agree. People say stuff like "shoot in the leg" not thinking of the unintended consequences, like where does that round go if it misses the perp's leg? What about innocent bystanders? That is another reason, besides stopping the threat ASAP, that the officer is taught to aim for the body mass.

See, I've avoided the shoot in the leg comment because I genuinely have no idea how difficult that shot is.  I've no experience with handguns at all, but to my knowledge, they are considerably less accurate than a rifle, so even at that close distance, he could miss.

[Rudy]

Put on a badge and go do the job. I mean, you are so smart, right?

I got $300 that you would have crapped your pants and ran the other way in that situation: 

I've got money on him shooting in a simulation.  

So the kid didn't kill the other two people he was talking to when the officer arrived?  He didn't make verbal threats to the officer?  He didn't raise the weapon in a threatening manner?  The officer exited his car with gun drawn instead of his taser?  The kid was shot within 10 seconds from exiting the cruiser?

I am not saying the kid wasn't acting irrationally. Sorry, but I expect better outcomes than this.  This result seems no different than what would happen if ordinary citizens carrying a firearm rolled up on the scene. I expect more from trained experts. 

Otherwise, let's just spend that training budget on extra ammo. 

please, enlighten me as to what we should have done. He had a deadly weapon, he charged the officer, he was even within 5-6 feet when the corporal fired. He was yelling, "Shoot me!", which indicates that he is not going to stop until lethal force is applied. The officer even attempted to create more space between himself and McMillan. I'm honestly clueless how any rational human being can still question the justification for lethal force.  

 

Simple question, do you think he should have fired before having the weapon swung at him? Do you think the officer should have an injury before firing? Yes or no?

 

And what the HELL is a "university cop response"?  

[EagleMBA]

 

And what the HELL is a "university cop response"?  

I had the same question. Some sort of "can't we all just get along?" appeal...to an individual clearly out of his mind? Maybe "Straighten up, young man...you could be expelled" ?

Perhaps the approach of the dorm mother in 1964 who caught me bringing in a bottle of vodka wrapped in sweatpants and said "Now Honey, take that up to your room before you get caught with it!" ?

In a lot of ways, a "university cop" has a very tough job and responsibility for lots of young stupids; he can't be just "one of the gang", there is too much on the line. JMO.

[Rudy]

A lot of people are under the impression that a different set of rules apply to college police than local, county, and state police.  While a college PD administration may prefer you to break up the party with underage drinking instead of handing out MIC tickets at the door on their way out, they are fully empowered police officers.  They face the same risks as every other cop (see MIT Officer Sean Collier), and their authority is real.  If you break the law, you face the consequences.

[UNT90]

http://www.policeone.com/police-products/firearms/training/articles/55089006-Video-Calif-officer-shoots-kills-man-charging-him-with-knife

Close to the same situation. Exact same outcome. 

[Rudy]

Notice how that subject CONTINUED to advance on the deputy even AFTER being shot. 

[UNTpolitico]

As tragic as a 21 year old student getting shot is. We find people critical of the police officer not the individual with the hatchet... I bet if he wasn't walking around smashing cars with a hatchet the police wouldn't have to had even contacted him.

[UNT90]

Notice how that subject CONTINUED to advance on the deputy even AFTER being shot. 

Notice how the suspect could have got into the deputy's car and left the scene?

No, officers don't have time to make sure their car doors are locked before confronting armed individuals (for you dolts out there that think confronting an armed individual is akin to buying a gallon of milk at the grocery store). 

He actually made a tactical error in not shooting earlier. If the dude was able to take his vehicle, he would then have access to either the car mounted shotgun or AR-15 or similiar rifle.

But idiots don't even consider that possibility. Because they are idiots. 

I've got money on him shooting in a simulation.  

 

And crapping his pants.

[greenit]

Love the personal attacks. Keep them coming. So typical and so hypocritical.

Unfortunate outcome for ALL involved. 

 

Is it accurate that only a single officer was dispatched to the scene?

[UNT90]

Love the personal attacks. Keep them coming. So typical and so hypocritical.

Unfortunate outcome for ALL involved. 

 

Is it accurate that only a single officer was dispatched to the scene?

No, but why let that stop you?

[oldguystudent]

A lot of people are under the impression that a different set of rules apply to college police than local, county, and state police.  While a college PD administration may prefer you to break up the party with underage drinking instead of handing out MIC tickets at the door on their way out, they are fully empowered police officers.  They face the same risks as every other cop (see MIT Officer Sean Collier), and their authority is real.  If you break the law, you face the consequences.

It seems like I've read somewhere that jurisdiction wise, University police are some of the most powerful in Texas.  

[UNTFan23]

It seems like I've read somewhere that jurisdiction wise, University police are some of the most powerful in Texas.  

University Police, in Texas, fall under State Police. UNT PD likely have some sort of mutual aid agreement for the areas surrounding the campus.

[greenit]

No, but why let that stop you?

So now you are accusing me of making stuff up because I don't agree with your stance?  This seems to be the same thing that you berate people for in other threads.   

I don't think I have said that this officer deserves punishment or is 'guilty' of something.  I am simply pissed off at the outcome of this event.  While the shooting may have been justified, I am not looking for justified opportunities for campus police to discharge their weapons. 

If there were multiple cops on the scene and the suspect was wearing light clothing (t-shirt), it seems like those are the components that have been previously suggest as being needed in order to deploy non lethal tactics such as a taser.  In this case, for whatever reason, that option does not appear to have been considered even though seemingly there were favorable components in place.

I don't think anyone is claiming it is an easy job.  On the job decisions that result in death deserve to be scrutinized without people losing their minds.

The internet and social media have made it far easier for people's voices to be heard (we have seen this first hand regarding our sports team and administration as it relates to this board).  The easy access to mass communication has caused many professions to come under increased scrutiny.  There are many examples of where this has occurred.

This is not a bad thing, but it has put a lot of people that are not used to having their decisions scrutinized on the defensive and they will have to adjust.

 

 

[UNTFan23]

So now you are accusing me of making stuff up because I don't agree with your stance?  This seems to be the same thing that you berate people for in other threads.   

I don't think I have said that this officer deserves punishment or is 'guilty' of something.  I am simply pissed off at the outcome of this event.  While the shooting may have been justified, I am not looking for justified opportunities for campus police to discharge their weapons. 

If there were multiple cops on the scene and the suspect was wearing light clothing (t-shirt), it seems like those are the components that have been previously suggest as being needed in order to deploy non lethal tactics such as a taser.  In this case, for whatever reason, that option does not appear to have been considered even though seemingly there were favorable components in place.

I don't think anyone is claiming it is an easy job.  On the job decisions that result in death deserve to be scrutinized without people losing their minds.

The internet and social media have made it far easier for people's voices to be heard (we have seen this first hand regarding our sports team and administration as it relates to this board).  The easy access to mass communication has caused many professions to come under increased scrutiny.  There are many examples of where this has occurred.

This is not a bad thing, but it has put a lot of people that are not used to having their decisions scrutinized on the defensive and they will have to adjust.

I have doubts that had there been other officers present, non-lethal measures would have been taken had the suspect still had the weapon and still advanced towards any of the officers on the scene.  The actions of the suspect did dictate the actions the officer took and would have still dictated the actions additional officers would have taken.

[Rudy]

I've already explained why the taser may not have been an option. You've got at least 3 law enforcement officers on this board. Nothing we say will convince you that in that situation, why the taser was not used.  

As to how many officers were dispatched, chances are it was just one, but when the call came out, other officers would have responded anyways. If you watch the released dash am footage, you hear other sirens approaching immediately after the shots.  

Edited December 20, 2015 by Rudy

[UNTpolitico]

I've already explained why the taser may not have been an option. You've got at least 3 law enforcement officers on this board. Nothing we say will convince you that in that situation, why the taser was not used.  

As to how many officers were dispatched, chances are it was just one, but when the call came out, other officers would have responded anyways. If you watch the released dash am footage, you hear other sirens approaching immediately after the shots.  

Rudy understands this more than most. The number of officers dispatched or on scene at the time would not change the results. Suspect with a deadly weapon possibly under the influence of who knows what advancing with a deadly weapon after repeated commands. We would probably just have more officers on desk duty. 

 

Rudy I quoted you because I want to thank you for what you do to protect the public and wish you and your family a merry Christmas. Stay safe out there.

University Police, in Texas, fall under State Police. UNT PD likely have some sort of mutual aid agreement for the areas surrounding the campus.

"The department has jurisdiction within the UNT campus, the city of Denton, and any county where UNT maintains property. Our 44 sworn police officers are state certified and enforce all city, state, and federal laws, as well as university policies." 

As stated they have a broad jurisdiction. 

[Rudy]

Thank you, and Merry Christmas To you too.

 

As for the jurisdiction, we don't step on each other's toes or butt heads. We all work together. At the first two places I reserved for, where it was one on duty for the whole town, you would often drive 5 minutes to other towns to back each other up.  

[UNT90]

I've already explained why the taser may not have been an option. You've got at least 3 law enforcement officers on this board. Nothing we say will convince you that in that situation, why the taser was not used.  

As to how many officers were dispatched, chances are it was just one, but when the call came out, other officers would have responded anyways. If you watch the released dash am footage, you hear other sirens approaching immediately after the shots.  

One officer should not and would not have been dispatched to a person with a weapon call, unless UNT police are practicing 1950 policing.

If police would have waited for a force of 5 officers, the suspect may have injured or killed one or more people. Then Greenit would be on here blaming the police for being cowards for not responding and handling the situation.

With people like him, it's always going to be the police's fault. Probably because he got a speeding ticket as a 19 year old and can't get over it...

 

[HoustonEagle]

FYI - people keep saying tase the guy or shot him in the leg. A law enforcement officer shouldn't deploy a taser or any other non lethal force when faced with a life threatening situation, like a man charging you with a tomahawk screaming shot me. Police shot to kill, not slow down. Guns are made to kill. This isn't Hollywood. Tasers are great for naked streakers at sporting events. Additionally, the officer was solo and you don't taser people solo. Cops have been killed trying that.

So, here in the real world, this officer did his job and deserves the our appreciation for preventing harm to the community by the recently departed. He went home safe too. Not much else to talk about if this is an intelligent conversation. 

Dude you were definitely drunk when you wrote that….. 

[Quoner]

I've already explained why the taser may not have been an option. You've got at least 3 law enforcement officers on this board.

Wait...just curious...who's the 3rd besides you and Emmitt?