Littrell Targeting Graham Harrell as OC

[Harry]

WELCOME COACH HARRELL!

[TheReal_jayD]

Agree.  Plus it's two hires with three total years of experience.  An OC who has never been an OC at any level.  I really did expect that the coordinators would be guys with plenty of experience doing it.  I'm not crazy about UNT being the proving ground for a bunch of new coaches, as if we can't attract experienced coaches.

Again, I like the hire of Seth.  But, we're not generally facing teams whose defensive coaches and coordinators have little or no experience.

During Littrell's speech after the hiring, he said that he wouldn't just look to people he knew well for assistant coaches.  So far, though, that's exactly what he's done.

If the majority of coaches hired have little or no experience, this thing will turn into Dodge II, trading one win seasons for three to five win seasons.  If RV isn't already sunk, two or three more losing seasons should more than do the job.     

And, you can still count the number of conference titles they have - in total - on one hand.  Maybe even a hand that's missing some fingers.

Leach 1

Briles 3

ruffin-1

dykes-1

thats the only four i counted there may be more... but what impressive is that most of them went to more bowl games than they didnt.. 

 

[UNT90]

comparing graham harrell and vince young could be the most idiotic thing i have heard on here in a while..

You are right, because Vince Young was arguably the best college QB outside of Cam Newton in the last 30 years. 

Trying reading the link I was responding to, people.

[Monkeypox]

Good quote from dad, Sam:

 

"You hate to say this, but it takes winning," Sam Harrell said. "You've got to start winning for kids get excited and parents to get excited. Since the 1970's when they had won the state and gone on to another playoff, from the 70's all the way to the mid-90's they had been to the playoffs one time. One time in like 20 years. They had one playoff game in 22 years. They had no tradition in winning in football."

https://texastech.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1385148

[hickoryhouse]

I don't really care what it would look like to UT. I know that if it helps sell recruits on UNT it is worth it and I personally think it would help and help tremendously. Kids are vulnerable and easily swayed. Vince Young walking into a house with Seth Littrell to sit down with a family and talk football and a real vision (not RV vision) would pull kids. It just would. 

rediculous discussion in general but I see it working out like a Troy McClure piece from the Simpsons.    

 

Vy: hi I'm Vince Young. You might remember me from such events as my UT football national championship, flaming out in the NFL and needing my university to bail me out of self induced tailspin with a figure head bullsh job.    Now I'm loyal to another university and you should believe what I say about it.  

 

That ludicrous.       Actually the entire discussion is by it is a fun exercise. 

 

Fire rv

[UNT90]

You're just pissed we didn't hire Fritz to run the wishbone, flexbone, option attack that three schools still run with success.  Gee, we could have the Ghosts of Emory Bellard as our OC or maybe talk Switzer into eating hot dogs on our sideline running his system.

and your just a sunshine pumper who would be happy if we hired DT to be offensive coordinator. 

See how stupid conversations work? 

This isn't about Fritz, it's about an irrational over-reaction to 2 possible hires with little experience and a head coaching hire that apparently is the next Nick Saban before recruiting one player or holding one practice.

Delusional. 

Edited December 10, 2015 by UNT90

[UNTFan23]

I would say we have no idea how Harrell will perform as an OC because he has never been one before.

And what qualifies him as being a "great offensive mind?" Playing QB in the NFL? Being a WR coach at Washington St?

Under your line of thought, no one would ever get a promotion.  Your reason: They've never done that type of work before and so they don't deserve to move up to a higher level position.

[Ben Gooding]

rediculous discussion in general but I see it working out like a Troy McClure piece from the Simpsons.    

 

Vy: hi I'm Vince Young. You might remember me from such events as my UT football national championship, flaming out in the NFL and needing my university to bail me out of self induced tailspin with a figure head bullsh job.    Now I'm loyal to another university and you should believe what I say about it.  

 

That ludicrous.       Actually the entire discussion is by it is a fun exercise. 

 

Fire rv

Only important part of that post. 

[TheReal_jayD]

and your just a sunshine pumper who would be happy if we hired DT to be offensive coordinator. 

See how stupid conversations work? 

This isn't about Fritz, it's about an irrational over-reaction to 2 possible hires with little experience and a head coaching hire that apparently is the next Nick Saban before recruiting one player or holding one practice.

Delusional. 

I got a website for you to try ROWDYTALK.com.. a lot of people there share about the same amount of love and enthusiasm for MEAN GREEN football program as yourself there negative nancy..

[UNT90]

Under your line of thought, no one would ever get a promotion.  Your reason: They've never done that type of work before and so they don't deserve to move up to a higher level position.

This is just stupid, because that isn't what I said. At all.

You don't promote someone and immediately proclaim them to be a "genius" at their job when they have haven't even taken the position.

That is what the irrational have said. And it's really really dumb.

I got a website for you to try ROWDYTALK.com.. a lot of people there share about the same amount of love and enthusiasm for MEAN GREEN football program as yourself there negative nancy..

Saying it bigger doesn't make it smarter, offspring of RV. 

[NorthTexan95]

If all our coaches are really young then that could be a huge issue.  I'm betting (really hoping) we'll see more experience in the rest of the staff. 

We'll have some arrangement of coaching positions: 

HC: Littrell

OC: Harrell

WR: Filani

RB: Perry?

OL:

DC:

DL: Patrick?

LB:

Corner:

S:

The first two assistant coaches are very young.  Perry and Patrick, assuming they are retained, both have a good amount of experience.  The offensive coaching positions are just about full other than OL. 

 

[TheReal_jayD]

This is just stupid, because that isn't what I said. At all.

You don't promote someone and immediately proclaim them to be a "genius" at their job when they have haven't even taken the position.

That is what the irrational have said. And it's really really dumb.

Saying it bigger doesn't make it smarter, offspring of RV. 

Just making sure your old pessimistic ass can read it..

[EagleMBA]

I like the way this staff is starting to look. What better way than to reunite guys who know each other well when you are trying to effect a quick reversal of fortune?

 

[Mean Green 93-98]

I think his dad only recently stopped coaching (or is he still?)

Sam Harrell returns to football coaching post as OC at Fort Worth Christian

It was four years ago this month that Harrell, the architect of Ennis’ transformation from woebegone to powerhouse, gave up his coaching duties. His health was in decline as multiple sclerosis, a chronic disease in which the immune system attacks the central nervous system, affected his coordination and sapped his strength and energy level. He used a golf cart to get around at practices, and when the MS was at its worst, he needed a walker to get around at home.

Now Harrell is bounding up and down stairs and jumping, from a stand-still position and with relative ease, onto a 20-inch platform.

“It’s just amazing, it really is,” Harrell said. “I feel like the luckiest guy in the world. I’m doing things I never dreamed of doing again.”

Including coaching. Harrell began work this spring as the offensive coordinator at Fort Worth Christian, which is moving from a predominantly wing-T offense to the spread. Harrell was one of the early adopters, and innovators, of the spread offense at Ennis, where he coached from 1994 through 2009.

http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/high-school/mattwixon/2014/05/13/sam-harrell-returns-to-football-coaching-post-as-oc-at-fort-worth-christian

 

[southsideguy]

There's a vast difference in bringing your buddies who are all exclusively coaching high school, and bringing your buddies who are coaching at P5 FBS programs.

Just saying hire for what they bring and not because they are your friend.  It is true in any business.

[greenminer]

The irrationality on here is at an all time high. 

Completely agree.

 

See you in the next thread.

[MeanGreenHoops]

I don't disagree with anything you are saying.

What you aren't saying is that Harrell is an "offensive genious" or that he is already the best OC we have ever had. 

You are right, you could use "wait and see" for any hire. AND YOU SHOULD. Especially at a place that hasn't hired worth a crap in 10 years. 

Everyone breath. Let the process work. The time to judge is about 2 years away (absent a bowl or winless season next year).

I'm not sure what the point of even posting would be then if we can't have an opinion on it for 2 years.

Also, for those saying this could be Dodge 2, so far not even close. Yes these guys haven't done these jobs, but they also weren't in HS, they have been in good college programs. Big difference.

So far the hires look good.

[UNT90]

I'm not sure what the point of even posting would be then if we can't have an opinion on it for 2 years.

Also, for those saying this could be Dodge 2, so far not even close. Yes these guys haven't done these jobs, but they also weren't in HS, they have been in good college programs. Big difference.

So far the hires look good.

Calling the new head coach "a great hire" when he has never been a head coach is crazy, especially with the hiring history of one Rick Villarreal. Furthermore, calling a one year wide receiver coach an "offensive genius" when he has never called one play for a college offense is sunshine pumping of the most extreme. 

Be pissed off at me all you want, but the chances much more favor us looking for a new head coach in 3 or 4 years than they do of Littrell turning this thing around and moving on to a better job. That is simply historical fact. It's not like we have a long history of picking the right coach to give fans a reason to be excited.

And it's a pattern here, and probably is on all message boards. Go back and look at threads immediately after DMac's hiring and how everyone was so impressed that we had a national championship winning coach. Many talked about what an edge that would be in recruiting. Others talked about his energy and the resurrection at Iowa St. Those who expressed concern then were similiarly shouted down by irrational fans who believed Dan McCarney was a football god.

And what happened before that hire? We had a spread offense high school coach that didn't play defense. So RV goes the complete opposite direction with Mac, who ran a boring offense and wanted to stress defense. Now with that philosophy not working and people tired of run, run, pass, punt, RV goes immediately back to the spread offense guru with no head coaching experience who hires a OC with no OC experience and one year college coaching experience. Does this sound familiar at all? 

And the irrational cheer like morons. 

Look, maybe Littrell can do what no one has been able to do since Hayden Fry. I think Littrell is already shocked at the perception of UNT that he is finding on the recruiting trail. I think those are just the beginning of the shocking moments that he will experience as long as Rick Villarreal is AD. But maybe he is the guy that finally turns it around. 

The odds are stacked high against him, and I'll wait and see.

Edited December 11, 2015 by UNT90

[Mean_Green09]

I think Littrell is already shocked at the perception of UNT that he is finding on the recruiting trail. 

I dont think he is shocked at all that we failed to recruit and get in doors. He has already changed the perception of UNT among a lot of DFW area high school coaches. They know his name, they know his offense, and they've reached out to him. We know he is going to them, but the fact that they are reaching out to him is good news. Its step one to changing the culture.

Recruiting under Littrell will be a whole new ball game.

[UNT90]

I dont think he is shocked at all that we failed to recruit and get in doors. He has already changed the perception of UNT among a lot of DFW area high school coaches. They know his name, they know his offense, and they've reached out to him. We know he is going to them, but the fact that they are reaching out to him is good news. Its step one to changing the culture.

Recruiting under Littrell will be a whole new ball game.

We will see.

[MeanGreenTexan]

We will see.

I can't speak for the results, but I'm willing to bet Apogee Stadium that 'Recruiting under Littrell will be a whole new ball game.'  

McCarney's recruiting efforts were just awful.  He hit on some guys, but his (and his staff's) lack of effort led to quite a few misses.

[UNT90]

I can't speak for the results, but I'm willing to bet Apogee Stadium that 'Recruiting under Littrell will be a whole new ball game.'  

McCarney's recruiting efforts were just awful.  He hit on some guys, but his (and his staff's) lack of effort led to quite a few misses.

No doubt. Will Littrell get similiarly beaten down? We will see.

I expect some hits in his first class, but the 2017 class will be the indicating factor. We are still fighting for the bottom on kids' list with UTSA and Texas St. right now as far as FBS schools in Texas. I think the loss to Portland St will be used against us heavily in the upcoming recruiting cycle. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

No doubt. Will Littrell get similiarly beaten down? We will see.

I expect some hits in his first class, but the 2017 class will be the indicating factor. We are still fighting for the bottom on kids' list with UTSA and Texas St. right now as far as FBS schools in Texas. I think the loss to Portland St will be used against us heavily in the upcoming recruiting cycle. 

I certainly hope so, because that gives Littrell & staff an easy in to explain how things are going to change around here.  The only guys who could be hurt by that are guys who remain on-board from the old regime.

[UNT90]

I certainly hope so, because that gives Littrell & staff an easy in to explain how things are going to change around here.  The only guys who could be hurt by that are guys who remain on-board from the old regime.

This is rose colored glasses thinking. Kids are going to associate that loss with UNT, not with Dan McCarney.

[aztecskin]

This is rose colored glasses thinking. Kids are going to associate that loss with UNT, not with Dan McCarney.

And this is overly pessimistic thinking. 

We can't treat the recruits as a monolith. They will each have their own perceptions and biases against and for UNT. [1]

A competitor's argument based around the PSU loss can be refuted by Seth Littrell simply saying "that's the past. We want you to help build the future". If it were McCarney trying to sell the recruit, that would be a more difficult argument to overcome. "Yeah but this time we'll do better!" Right. Sure coach. 

[1]: These perceptions and biases are formed long before the December period of singing day. I don't run into too many kids dreaming of playing for UNT. That's fine, because there aren't many dreaming of playing for WKU either. For anyone not in the 4-star or 5-star ranks, playing at the school you dreamed of playing may not be a choice you have. One thing we can say that most, if not all, HS football players want -- is to play at the college level. The ones with choices (good ones) can be convinced to play here as long as we can make an argument that we aren't a clownshow. That's when SL points to his resume.