Littrell Targeting Graham Harrell as OC

MGNation92 · December 10, 2015

No one has any idea if Harrell can execute Leach's offense. He has never done it.

I'll just leave this here:

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/graham-harrell-1.html

UNT90 · December 10, 2015

I'll just leave this here:
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/graham-harrell-1.html

Big difference from playing and coaching.

Good lord.

Maybe we should hire Vince Young as OC...

The irrationality on here is at an all time high.

Edited December 10, 2015 by UNT90

Aldo · December 10, 2015

So Leach is a great offensive mind is what you are really saying.
No one has any idea if Harrell can execute Leach's offense. He has never done it.

I do share your concern of a positional coach becoming a first time OC.

What I see is, Littrell is confident that Harrell is able to run Littrell's system.

UNT90 · December 10, 2015

I do share your concern of a positional coach becoming a first time OC.
What I see is, Littrell is confident that Harrell is able to run Littrell's system.

Right. Calling Harrell a "great offensive mind" is just... I mean, the cat has never ran his own offense before.

He may do well here, but WE DON'T KNOW.

MeanMag · December 10, 2015

Big difference from playing and coaching.
God lord.
Maybe we should hire Vince Young as OC...
The irrationality on here is at an all time high.

Then you admit there is a big difference between what graham and Vince have been doing the past few years...

ChristopherRyanWilkes · December 10, 2015

I do share your concern of a positional coach becoming a first time OC.
What I see is, Littrell is confident that Harrell is able to run Littrell's system.

On top of that, what better alternative has anyone proposed? I know UNT90 mentioned someone with experience as an Offensive Coordinator, but what OC who is worth his salt is searching for another OC job right now? You may be able to get a former OC who is now an a position coach but what does that tell you? Sonny Cumbie is just one example that comes to mind, but plenty of OCs at P5's right now, and especially in Texas, spent a few years as position coaches and then quickly were promoted to Offensive Coordinator at a young age. Lincoln Riley is another example, used Eastern Carolina as a launching pad to his OU gig now.

aztecskin · December 10, 2015

@2:30, he talks about coach Leach & his system not changing after 10 years. Should bode well for him as I anticipate much of what Littrell does is what Leach does.
Would love to try and weasel out one of our paycheck games and one of our FCS games over the next 2 seasons to work in a home/home w/WAZZU. It would either be high-scoring as heck, or very low scoring because each defense would know what the other team's offense is doing...

I've been advocating for this kind of matchup for a while. A Pac 12 team is a great opponent and Wazzu went to Rutgers this season y'all.

southsideguy · December 10, 2015

hope he does not make the dodge mistake and hire his buddies.

aztecskin · December 10, 2015

Mike Leach trusted Graham Harrell to essentially call his own plays on the field as the #2 team in the nation. He trusted Harrell to check out of bad plays and into good ones and more. He's essentially had OC training under the most difficult conditions (while having to execute the play). I imagine if he is sitting up in the booth or on the sidelines he'll be better able to figure out a play that will work.

Again, Littrell's offense that Harrell will run. One that has its origins in a common boss (Leach) that they both know very well.

Aldo · December 10, 2015

Right. Calling Harrell a "great offensive mind" is just... I mean, the cat has never ran his own offense before.
He may do well here, but WE DON'T KNOW.

Why are you taking that phrasing and running with it? Only one person said it. Chill.

Everyone, Graham Harrell is not a great offensive mind.

My opinion is that he's learning the ropes under some big names. He's running Littrell's offense.

ChristopherRyanWilkes · December 10, 2015

Right. Calling Harrell a "great offensive mind" is just... I mean, the cat has never ran his own offense before.
He may do well here, but WE DON'T KNOW.

Sorry, but you could literally use "we don't know" argument for anything but it doesn't actually analyze the hire. If you look at the mold across the nation for big program OC's you will see a pattern. Many of them were college and perhaps even NFL QB's (check), ran the spread offense in college (check), are young which also fits in with the spread offense thing (check), were a position coach for maybe a year or two and then were promoted to offensive coordinator very quickly (check and possibly check). Look at current offensive coordinators in Texas right now who are successful and you can see how similar Graham is to all of them, something we have not had before in Canales and others.

UNT90 · December 10, 2015

Then you admit there is a big difference between what graham and Vince have been doing the past few years...

I responded to a post about Harrell as a player.

If that is the only qualification to being an "offensive genius," hire Vince Young.

Ben Gooding · December 10, 2015

I responded to a post about Harrell as a player.
If that is the only qualification to being an "offensive genius," hire Vince Young.

Yes, please. Don't put headset on this guy, but if we're looking for a recruiting guru as mentioned on another thread this would be a no brainer. Plus, I think he is looking for real employment outside of "LHN."

UNT90 · December 10, 2015

Sorry, but you could literally use "we don't know" argument for anything but it doesn't actually analyze the hire. If you look at the mold across the nation for big program OC's you will see a pattern. Many of them were college and perhaps even NFL QB's (check), ran the spread offense in college (check), are young which also fits in with the spread offense thing (check), were a position coach for maybe a year or two and then were promoted to offensive coordinator very quickly (check and possibly check). Look at current offensive coordinators in Texas right now who are successful and you can see how similar Graham is to all of them, something we have not had before in Canales and others.

I don't disagree with anything you are saying.

What you aren't saying is that Harrell is an "offensive genious" or that he is already the best OC we have ever had.

You are right, you could use "wait and see" for any hire. AND YOU SHOULD. Especially at a place that hasn't hired worth a crap in 10 years.

Everyone breath. Let the process work. The time to judge is about 2 years away (absent a bowl or winless season next year).

TheReal_jayD · December 10, 2015

I responded to a post about Harrell as a player.
If that is the only qualification to being an "offensive genius," hire Vince Young.

comparing graham harrell and vince young could be the most idiotic thing i have heard on here in a while..

Christopher Walker · December 10, 2015

hope he does not make the dodge mistake and hire his buddies.

There's a vast difference in bringing your buddies who are all exclusively coaching high school, and bringing your buddies who are coaching at P5 FBS programs.

Edited December 10, 2015 by Christopher Walker

ChristopherRyanWilkes · December 10, 2015

I don't disagree with anything you are saying.
What you aren't saying is that Harrell is an "offensive genious" or that he is already the best OC we have ever had.
You are right, you could use "wait and see" for any hire. AND YOU SHOULD. Especially at a place that hasn't hired worth a crap in 10 years.
Everyone breath. Let the process work. The time to judge is about 2 years away (absent a bowl or winless season next year).

Of course, it is always wait and see. All I'm saying is it easy to see where he could succeed where others here have failed. Look at just the amazing amount of Leach guys who are successful coordinators and even head coaches right now from his time at Texas Tech. I count Littrell as one of them and possibly Harrell. It is exciting to get some new and fresh energy out there. We should see the results in recruiting very soon which is the most immediate thing we can quantify.

There's a vast difference in bringing your buddies who are all exclusively coaching high school, and bringing your buddies who are coaching at P5 FBS programs.

This is a ridiculous comparison. Just look at the money differences to know why this is different.

MGNation92 · December 10, 2015

I'm just saying, outside learning under AARON RODGERS(not exactly detrimental) for a couple years, Harrell has literally played or coached the exact same system his entire career. He has a solid working knowledge of how it works and should be run, but you know, that probably has nothing to do with his ability to execute that system.

hickoryhouse · December 10, 2015

Yes, please. Don't put headset on this guy, but if we're looking for a recruiting guru as mentioned on another thread this would be a no brainer. Plus, I think he is looking for real employment outside of "LHN."

so v young is a recruiting prodigy all of a sudden? Well I'll be damned. Texas has been doing it wrong with him in a meaningless "thank you for your service" type of gig there.

Just because he has name recognition doesn't mean that he is a good recruiter. And his super UT hero persona and pedigree would look beyond rediculous and two faced at our great institution.

Not it that this is actually a possibility, just saying that 90 has a point. Name recognition doesn't mean dick when it comes to actually being an offensive genius or recruiting guru or even a herbal healer! At some point you have to prove it an VY hasn't done that. Similarly just because GH comes from Leach's system and has one year of coaching doesn't mean he is an offensive genius or guru or shaman or whatever descriptor you want to use.

I am excited about the progress and think GH could be a good coach, if he is the hire he has 100% of my support.... But as a coach from these parts once said. Maybe we should "put away the anointing oils"

ChristopherRyanWilkes · December 10, 2015

Hal Mumme - head coach at Valdosta State 1992-1996, Kentucky 1997-2000, SE Louisiana 2003-2004, New Mexico State 2005-2008, McMurry 2009-2012, and Belhaven 2014-present; offensive coordinator at SMU^[3] 2013.
- Mike Leach - offensive coordinator under Mumme at Valdosta State 1992-1996 and Kentucky 1997-1998, then at Oklahoma in 1999; head coach at Texas Tech 2000-2009; head coach at Washington State 2012–present.
  - Mark Mangino - offensive line coach at Oklahoma in 1999 under Leach; offensive coordinator at Oklahoma 2000-2001 after Leach's departure; head coach at Kansas 2002-2009.
  - Art Briles - running backs coach at Texas Tech under Leach from 2000-2002; head coach at Houston 2003-2007 and Baylor 2008-present.
  - Ruffin McNeil - at Texas Tech under Leach as linebackers coach 2000-2006 and defensive coordinator 2007-2009; head coach at East Carolina 2010–2015.
  - Lincoln Riley - wide receivers coach at Texas Tech from 2007-2009; offensive coordinator at East Carolina from 2010-2014; offensive coordinator at Oklahoma from 2015-present
  - Sonny Cumbie - co-offensive coordinator at Texas Tech 2013; co-offensive coordinator at TCU from 2014-present. played under Leach at Texas Tech.
  - Clay McGuire - offensive line coach at Washington State 2012 under Leach; played under Leach at Texas Tech.
  - Eric Morris - inside wide receivers coach at Washington State 2012 under Leach; played under Leach at Texas Tech; IWR coach at Texas Tech 2013–present. (Now Offensive Coordinator)
  - Robert Anae - offensive line coach at Texas Tech 2000-2004 under Leach; offensive coordinator at BYU 2005-2010; OC at BYU 2013-present.
  - Josh Heupel - played QB under Leach (1999) and Mangino (2000) at Oklahoma. Coached quarterbacks at Oklahoma from 2006-2009 before serving as Co-OC from 2010–2014 for Oklahoma. (Now OC at Utah State)
- Tony Franklin - running backs coach at Kentucky 1997-1999, under Leach in 1998; offensive coordinator at Kentucky in 2000; offensive coordinator at Troy in 2006, Auburn 2007-2008, Middle Tennessee 2009, Louisiana Tech 2010-2012, and OC at California 2013–present.
- Chris Hatcher - quarterbacks and receivers coach at Kentucky under Mumme in 1999; head coach at Valdosta State 2000-2006, Georgia Southern 2007-2009, Murray State 2010-2014, and Samford present.
- Dana Holgorsen - quarterbacks and wide receivers coach under Mumme at Valdosta State 1993-1995; at Texas Tech under Leach as wide receivers coach 2000-2006 and offensive coordinator in 2007; offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach at Houston under Kevin Sumlin 2008-2009; offensive coordinator at Oklahoma State in 2010; head coach at West Virginia 2011–present.
- Sonny Dykes - wide receivers coach at Kentucky under Mumme in 1999 and Texas Tech under Leach 2000-2006; offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach at Arizona 2007-2009; head coach at Louisiana Tech 2010-2012; head coach at California starting in 2013.
- Kliff Kingsbury - quarterback at Texas Tech 1998-2002, under Leach 2000-2002; offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach at Houston under Sumlin 2010-2011; offensive coordinator at Texas A&M under Sumlin in 2012; head coach at Texas Tech 2013–present.

Edited December 10, 2015 by ChristopherRyanWilkes

HarringtonFishSmeller · December 10, 2015

Impressed? It's 2 hires.
The most important hire is still to come.
So we could here about how HE actually won a national title at Auburn?
Suck it, Dan McCarney.

Agree. Plus it's two hires with three total years of experience. An OC who has never been an OC at any level. I really did expect that the coordinators would be guys with plenty of experience doing it. I'm not crazy about UNT being the proving ground for a bunch of new coaches, as if we can't attract experienced coaches.

Again, I like the hire of Seth. But, we're not generally facing teams whose defensive coaches and coordinators have little or no experience.

During Littrell's speech after the hiring, he said that he wouldn't just look to people he knew well for assistant coaches. So far, though, that's exactly what he's done.

If the majority of coaches hired have little or no experience, this thing will turn into Dodge II, trading one win seasons for three to five win seasons. If RV isn't already sunk, two or three more losing seasons should more than do the job.

Hal Mumme - head coach at Valdosta State 1992-1996, Kentucky 1997-2000, SE Louisiana 2003-2004, New Mexico State 2005-2008, McMurry 2009-2012, and Belhaven 2014-present; offensive coordinator at SMU^[3] 2013.
Mike Leach - offensive coordinator under Mumme at Valdosta State 1992-1996 and Kentucky 1997-1998, then at Oklahoma in 1999; head coach at Texas Tech 2000-2009; head coach at Washington State 2012–present.
Mark Mangino - offensive line coach at Oklahoma in 1999 under Leach; offensive coordinator at Oklahoma 2000-2001 after Leach's departure; head coach at Kansas 2002-2009.
Art Briles - running backs coach at Texas Tech under Leach from 2000-2002; head coach at Houston 2003-2007 and Baylor 2008-present.
Ruffin McNeil - at Texas Tech under Leach as linebackers coach 2000-2006 and defensive coordinator 2007-2009; head coach at East Carolina 2010–2015.
Lincoln Riley - wide receivers coach at Texas Tech from 2007-2009; offensive coordinator at East Carolina from 2010-2014; offensive coordinator at Oklahoma from 2015-present
Sonny Cumbie - co-offensive coordinator at Texas Tech 2013; co-offensive coordinator at TCU from 2014-present. played under Leach at Texas Tech.
Clay McGuire - offensive line coach at Washington State 2012 under Leach; played under Leach at Texas Tech.
Eric Morris - inside wide receivers coach at Washington State 2012 under Leach; played under Leach at Texas Tech; IWR coach at Texas Tech 2013–present. (Now Offensive Coordinator)
Robert Anae - offensive line coach at Texas Tech 2000-2004 under Leach; offensive coordinator at BYU 2005-2010; OC at BYU 2013-present.
Josh Heupel - played QB under Leach (1999) and Mangino (2000) at Oklahoma. Coached quarterbacks at Oklahoma from 2006-2009 before serving as Co-OC from 2010–2014 for Oklahoma. (Now OC at Utah State)
Tony Franklin - running backs coach at Kentucky 1997-1999, under Leach in 1998; offensive coordinator at Kentucky in 2000; offensive coordinator at Troy in 2006, Auburn 2007-2008, Middle Tennessee 2009, Louisiana Tech 2010-2012, and OC at California 2013–present.
Chris Hatcher - quarterbacks and receivers coach at Kentucky under Mumme in 1999; head coach at Valdosta State 2000-2006, Georgia Southern 2007-2009, Murray State 2010-2014, and Samford present.
Dana Holgorsen - quarterbacks and wide receivers coach under Mumme at Valdosta State 1993-1995; at Texas Tech under Leach as wide receivers coach 2000-2006 and offensive coordinator in 2007; offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach at Houston under Kevin Sumlin 2008-2009; offensive coordinator at Oklahoma State in 2010; head coach at West Virginia 2011–present.
Sonny Dykes - wide receivers coach at Kentucky under Mumme in 1999 and Texas Tech under Leach 2000-2006; offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach at Arizona 2007-2009; head coach at Louisiana Tech 2010-2012; head coach at California starting in 2013.
Kliff Kingsbury - quarterback at Texas Tech 1998-2002, under Leach 2000-2002; offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach at Houston under Sumlin 2010-2011; offensive coordinator at Texas A&M under Sumlin in 2012; head coach at Texas Tech 2013–present.

And, you can still count the number of conference titles they have - in total - on one hand. Maybe even a hand that's missing some fingers.

Edited December 10, 2015 by HarringtonFishSmeller

UNTLifer · December 10, 2015

Right. Calling Harrell a "great offensive mind" is just... I mean, the cat has never ran his own offense before.
He may do well here, but WE DON'T KNOW.

You're just pissed we didn't hire Fritz to run the wishbone, flexbone, option attack that three schools still run with success. Gee, we could have the Ghosts of Emory Bellard as our OC or maybe talk Switzer into eating hot dogs on our sideline running his system.

meangreen08 · December 10, 2015

I do share your concern of a positional coach becoming a first time OC.
What I see is, Littrell is confident that Harrell is able to run Littrell's system.

BINGO.

Ben Gooding · December 10, 2015

so v young is a recruiting prodigy all of a sudden? Well I'll be damned. Texas has been doing it wrong with him in a meaningless "thank you for your service" type of gig there.

Just because he has name recognition doesn't mean that he is a good recruiter. And his super UT hero persona and pedigree would look beyond rediculous and two faced at our great institution.

Not it that this is actually a possibility, just saying that 90 has a point. Name recognition doesn't mean dick when it comes to actually being an offensive genius or recruiting guru or even a herbal healer! At some point you have to prove it an VY hasn't done that. Similarly just because GH comes from Leach's system and has one year of coaching doesn't mean he is an offensive genius or guru or shaman or whatever descriptor you want to use.
I am excited about the progress and think GH could be a good coach, if he is the hire he has 100% of my support.... But as a coach from these parts once said. Maybe we should "put away the anointing oils"

I don't really care what it would look like to UT. I know that if it helps sell recruits on UNT it is worth it and I personally think it would help and help tremendously. Kids are vulnerable and easily swayed. Vince Young walking into a house with Seth Littrell to sit down with a family and talk football and a real vision (not RV vision) would pull kids. It just would.

Monkeypox · December 10, 2015

This is a pretty natural hire, as have all those on the offensive side, quite frankly. Right now, we're going with youth, system familiarity, and upside. While I share concerns about the lack of experience, particularly at schools with little to no Athletics support or history of success, I'm fine with all this.

The Harrell name is still well-respected and dug deep in Texas coaching circles. The fact that his college success was so recent, I think his dad only recently stopped coaching (or is he still?), and that both of Graham's brothers are coaching out west can't hurt. Zac, as I'm sure everyone knows, is a North Texas grad and lives in Denton.

So, yeah, we'll see if they can make this thing tick, but I'm not so worried about the offensive scheme or playcalling. We're not to a point where we can even begin to worry about that, IMO. Right now, we need to be able to pull recruits and coach them up. Maybe if we start getting within 30 points of a decent opponent, I can start bitching about playcalling or something.

Also, like others, I'm anxiously awaiting the hires on the DEFENSIVE side of the ball, since that will be the side with the most pressure on it when running an offense like this.