About that hing of whether UNT fans come when we are winning. Some fairly clear data

GreenTexan13 · December 10, 2015

We have hyped hardcore fans. We don't have a hyped fan base. 24 or 25k is a pipe dream.
The only curious people to his performance are the hardcore fans. I worry greatly about student turnout.

I Don't worry about the students at all. a home opener game against a known DFW opponent? Students may not go to every game, but the two games that they usually bring numbers is the home opener and Homecoming. There will be at least 20-22K there. I'm not arguing with you when we play bethune-cookman though. The rest of the games probably won't match up to the SMU game attendance wise. (Unless we rack up a bunch of wins in the beginning of the year). But since this is Littrell's "give the new coach slack" year, I don't expect us to be the 2015 Toledo giant killer type of football team here at North Texas.

24 or 25k is not a pipe dream. I'd be willing to bet we scrape the bottom part of 24k if this game is at 6 or 7pm. Both SMU and UNT fans will be more willing to attend because it skips the hotter weather, conflict with children's sports games, and it is towards the end of the day when people might have their Saturday plans wrapped up.

outoftown · December 10, 2015

Here's the thing though, wins are not the end all-be all to this problem. For entertainment of any kind, it also takes proper marketing and engagement to draw consistent, loyal crowds; or more simply, the product will never just speak for itself. See: the aftermath of our legendary Heart of Dallas Bowl-winning season.

No, the data says that wins and losses only account for about 60-70 percent of the average attendance differences at this particular school. There remain 30-40% for everything else. Like marketing. In my eyes the data seem to say that a winning team markets itself and no marketing in the world can get a losing team the same attendance as a winning one. In other words: we play 1-11 and we average 13k and maybe 16k with perfect marketing. We go 5-7 and we get 18k and maybe 23k with perfect marketing. So marketing makes a difference, and it needs to be done, but it cannot completely overcome certain losing situations.

Edited December 10, 2015 by outoftown

Christopher Walker · December 10, 2015

No, the data says that wins and losses only account for about 60-70 percent of the average attendance differences at this particular school. There remain 30-40% for everything else. Like marketing. In my eyes the data seem to say that a winning team markets itself and no marketing in the world can get a losing team the same attendance as a winning one. In other words: we play 1-11 and we average 13k and maybe 16k with perfect marketing. We go 5-7 and we get 18k and maybe 23k with perfect marketing. So marketing makes a difference, and it needs to be done, but it cannot completely overcome certain losing situations.

Tell that historically to Washington State, Colorado, Colorado State, UTEP, Minnesota, Bowling Green, Cal, Indiana, Illinois, Louisville, Wake Forest, Southern Miss, Boston College, Georgia Tech, Ohio, etc. etc.

So marketing makes a difference, and it needs to be done, but it cannot completely overcome certain losing situations.

Never claimed it could. I'm just saying you cannot have one without the other. We tried resting on our laurels leading up to and after the Heart of Dallas Bowl and look where that got us: less, count 'em, less season ticket holders the next year.

MeanGreenTexan · December 10, 2015

...
Never claimed it could. I'm just saying you cannot have one without the other. We tried resting on our laurels leading up to and after the Heart of Dallas Bowl and look where that got us: less, count 'em, less season ticket holders the next year.

The Heart of Dallas Bowl sells itself.

Ben Gooding · December 10, 2015

Tell that historically to Washington State, Colorado, Colorado State, UTEP, Minnesota, Bowling Green, Cal, Indiana, Illinois, Louisville, Wake Forest, Southern Miss, Boston College, Georgia Tech, Ohio, etc. etc.
Never claimed it could. I'm just saying you cannot have one without the other. We tried resting on our laurels leading up to and after the Heart of Dallas Bowl and look where that got us: less, count 'em, less season ticket holders the next year.

Point is that marketing is a pivotal part of increasing attendance, just not nearly as important as winning. We struggle at both hence the uproar to have the AD removed. We can do better. In my opinion, we can do much better. It takes leg work to get it done and I know the pieces are not in place to put us in a position to be competitive in fundraising, marketing, donor members, and winning on the field/court. We can do better. If changes aren't made this will eventually be the demise of the president and he will be known as the guy that talked a big game and never pulled the trigger.

Eagle1855 · December 10, 2015

I believe there is a very good chance that the SMU game will be a sell out. First game of year for both teams, so there is no P5 whipping to start the year for either team. A lot of enthusiasm for Littrell at NT and even SMU should bring a couple of thousand versus the couple of hundred last time. Not anywhere close to the number NT had at Ford, but not the embarrassing number they brought to Apogee before.

It damn well should be. What more does one need? We're invested in the program in a way we've never been before. With some 250k+ people with NT ties in the DFW area alone, It's time for us as a fan base to put up or shut up, hit that 30k mark in the new stadium.