About that hing of whether UNT fans come when we are winning. Some fairly clear data

smoothfresh · December 10, 2015

It will never happen but hear me out. The SMU game should be free for any non season ticket holder (season ticket holders..thank you and don't flip a lid).

We finally sell (or should I say pack) this beautiful stadium. These "new" fans spend $$$ on concessions and enjoy the experience which in turn could lead to them purchasing tickets in the future.

From an athletic department budget perspective I'm not sure of the ramifications but at this point (year 5 of Apogee) we should explore all avenues to get people in here.

Think of the pictures we would have to use in future marketing and showing to recruits.

Edited December 10, 2015 by smoothfresh

Ben Gooding · December 10, 2015

Geez, your an insulting juvenile.

You'll live. Stop throwing BS out. You dislike RV so much I genuinely think you want Littrell to fail and you want to see less than the 13631 we averaged this year JUST so you can wand your hand over your previous posts like you're showing us letters on wheel of fortune and simply be able to say, "I told you so."

Edited December 10, 2015 by Ben Gooding

flyonthewall · December 10, 2015

Geez you're a depressing person. A season opener at home with a new HC installing a new O will draw more than 16k. Vs a rival no less. I know you want RV gone (as do I) but let's not allow the desire to see him gone turn you into a dumbass.

Makes me wonder which is worse, a group of people on a message board beating a drum for change to make this place better, and getting absolutely nowhere, or a group of people blindly donating millions of dollars to try to effect change, finally convincing the "powers that be" to step up to the plate and go get a coach "money be damned" instead of compromising because of money (dodge), and then hiring McCarney because of phantom "skins".

If you ask me, we are all dumbasses. I think you guys are dumbasses because you sit around throwing darts trying to figure out what is going on sometimes getting it right, but most of the time posting speculative bullshit that just isn't true. All the while knowing the true whys of how Stephens got hired, then Aston, then Peterson, then Benford. You guys think that I am a dumbass because I "blindly follow RV" and have bought in to his "vision" of what North Texas should be in athletics.

This year took a lot out of all of our North Texas pride. I told my wife if this is our quarterback we may only win two games. It was a complete beating watching this team slip backwards. I mean, I watched several big donors on new years day 2014 say "We need to extend this guy, now". Then we slip off of the mountain like a mudslide? So guess what, the guys that pushed that decision are now going to have to help pay to correct that. That is "how it go" in college football.

I satirically made the reference of "piss ants" after hearing it from a fellow suite holder and friend of mine, and thought is was kind of funny. Well it's not funny. We all know the truth, we need me, you, students, alumni in Dallas, everybody. The guy buying the endzone family pack pizza deal is just as important as anybody on game day.

I can say that for me, this hire is different. There is no talk about a journey, about a "football plan". There is no putting a fist in the air and showing a ring, then saying "I talked to Urban last night", and "When I got here we didn't look like a football team". Nope, just a guy saying I have a lot of work to do. Sure there are some coach speak cliches about playing fast, and spreading the ball around, and having fun. But there is a calm about this guy that makes you step back and say wow. I had a old man tell me long ago who raised bird dogs, you can train dogs all of your life, but when you get that really good one, and sometimes it never happens for people, you will know from the beginning that it is the one. The world is full of unknowns rising to be the best in their field. The one common denominator that I see is talent. But when you take talent and combine that with an unbelievable and unexplainable ability to just refuse to lose, then you have something special. It is the calm that is giving me goose bumps.

As for me, I am going to roll it out there against SMU, get as many people to come as I can, and pray for some ffffing help from the football team to get them back for Bethleham State or whoever we are playing.

TIgreen01 · December 10, 2015

I think you're dead on about what happened after Portland St. My immediate group of buddies are all talking about dropping out on season tickets after 15 years. Likely all but one are gone for next year.

As far as curiosity, I'm getting text messages from friend's wives who see all the FB stuff that UNT is releasing and asking about it. Harry has been harping on our size being a huge advantage on social media and I think he's right. Mind you, these aren't die-hard UNT fans who's wives are asking, either. I think that stuff really has a chance to help us pull in casual fans who may not otherwise give us a second look.

Edit---well crap, multi-quote functionality tripped me up, but I attempted to quote UNT90:

"I think a lot of people gave up after Portland St. And I think it's going to take winning to get them back."

"The only curious people to his performance are the hardcore fans. I worry greatly about student turnout."

--end EDIT

Edited December 10, 2015 by TIgreen01

Ben Gooding · December 10, 2015

I think you're dead on about what happened after Portland St. My immediate group of buddies are all talking about dropping out on season tickets after 15 years. Likely all but one are gone for next year.
As far as curiosity, I'm getting text messages from friend's wives who see all the FB stuff that UNT is releasing and asking about it. Harry has been harping on our size being a huge advantage on social media and I think he's right. Mind you, these aren't die-hard UNT fans who's wives are asking, either. I think that stuff really has a chance to help us pull in casual fans who may not otherwise give us a second look.
Edit---well crap, multi-quote functionality tripped me up, but I attempted to quote UNT90:
"I think a lot of people gave up after Portland St. And I think it's going to take winning to get them back."
"The only curious people to his performance are the hardcore fans. I worry greatly about student turnout."
--end EDIT

I don't worry at all about student turnout. They will be there in force vs SMU. A good showing vs them will bring them back. A fun offense to watch will bring them back as well. Students will bring 8-10K for the season home opener vs SMU. Bank on that.

UNT90 · December 10, 2015

You'll live. Stop throwing BS out. You dislike RV so much I genuinely think you want Littrell to fail and you want to see less than the 13631 we averaged this year JUST so you can wand your hand over your previous posts like you're showing us letters on wheel of fortune and simply be able to say, "I told you so."

Well, your an idiot, then. But that's pretty well documented, anyway.

untbowler · December 10, 2015

RV accommodated TV for the horrible, sweltering, oppressively hot day game. He did it on purpose. We should NEVER EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES HAVE A DAY GAME AT THE BEGINNING OF SEPTEMBER. I don't care about TV. In fact, TV only drives down the attendance numbers anyway. Why come sit in 100 degree weather when you can watch it at home. Dumb Dumb Dumb decision. Next seasons opener needs to be no earlier than 6:00, preferably 7:00.

I have never understood the scheduling rationale of mid day games in September and early October and late evening games in late October and November, in my opinion should be just the opposite. Start at 7 PM during September into October and play at 11 or noon as you get into the dregs of fall where it is chilly in the evening.

I can say that for me, this hire is different. There is no talk about a journey, about a "football plan". There is no putting a fist in the air and showing a ring, then saying "I talked to Urban last night", and "When I got here we didn't look like a football team". Nope, just a guy saying I have a lot of work to do. Sure there are some coach speak cliches about playing fast, and spreading the ball around, and having fun. But there is a calm about this guy that makes you step back and say wow. I had a old man tell me long ago who raised bird dogs, you can train dogs all of your life, but when you get that really good one, and sometimes it never happens for people, you will know from the beginning that it is the one. The world is full of unknowns rising to be the best in their field. The one common denominator that I see is talent. But when you take talent and combine that with an unbelievable and unexplainable ability to just refuse to lose, then you have something special. It is the calm that is giving me goose bumps.

I am already liking the blue collar attitude, keep out of the spot light and get to work. No rings to show off and no talking of past glory.

Hope the community and the Area HS get visited and Littrell becomes a big name for the area and if he gets snagged away in 2-4 yrs even more that the right hire was made.

Ben Gooding · December 10, 2015

Well, your an idiot, then. But that's pretty well documented, anyway.

*you're - but it's OK.

Quoner · December 10, 2015

Well, your an idiot, then. But that's pretty well documented, anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUwjNBjqR-c

Edited December 10, 2015 by Quoner

UNT90 · December 10, 2015

Makes me wonder which is worse, a group of people on a message board beating a drum for change to make this place better, and getting absolutely nowhere, or a group of people blindly donating millions of dollars to try to effect change, finally convincing the "powers that be" to step up to the plate and go get a coach "money be damned" instead of compromising because of money (dodge), and then hiring McCarney because of phantom "skins".
If you ask me, we are all dumbasses. I think you guys are dumbasses because you sit around throwing darts trying to figure out what is going on sometimes getting it right, but most of the time posting speculative bullshit that just isn't true. All the while knowing the true whys of how Stephens got hired, then Aston, then Peterson, then Benford. You guys think that I am a dumbass because I "blindly follow RV" and have bought in to his "vision" of what North Texas should be in athletics.
This year took a lot out of all of our North Texas pride. I told my wife if this is our quarterback we may only win two games. It was a complete beating watching this team slip backwards. I mean, I watched several big donors on new years day 2014 say "We need to extend this guy, now". Then we slip off of the mountain like a mudslide? So guess what, the guys that pushed that decision are now going to have to help pay to correct that. That is "how it go" in college football.
I satirically made the reference of "piss ants" after hearing it from a fellow suite holder and friend of mine, and thought is was kind of funny. Well it's not funny. We all know the truth, we need me, you, students, alumni in Dallas, everybody. The guy buying the endzone family pack pizza deal is just as important as anybody on game day.
I can say that for me, this hire is different. There is no talk about a journey, about a "football plan". There is no putting a fist in the air and showing a ring, then saying "I talked to Urban last night", and "When I got here we didn't look like a football team". Nope, just a guy saying I have a lot of work to do. Sure there are some coach speak cliches about playing fast, and spreading the ball around, and having fun. But there is a calm about this guy that makes you step back and say wow. I had a old man tell me long ago who raised bird dogs, you can train dogs all of your life, but when you get that really good one, and sometimes it never happens for people, you will know from the beginning that it is the one. The world is full of unknowns rising to be the best in their field. The one common denominator that I see is talent. But when you take talent and combine that with an unbelievable and unexplainable ability to just refuse to lose, then you have something special. It is the calm that is giving me goose bumps.
As for me, I am going to roll it out there against SMU, get as many people to come as I can, and pray for some ffffing help from the football team to get them back for Bethleham State or whoever we are playing.

Or Littrell could be in over his head.

Point being we won't know probably until mid 2017 season, although we should have a pretty good feel mid 2016.

The other problems will remain because the AD remains. Those of us that don't get tickets personally delivered will still have to cross our fingers and hope that a ticket office that has been a problem for years can get away game tickets mailed to us, even though we ordered them a month in advance. We will still have to deal with crappy marketing and promotions. We will still have to deal with basketball season and a coach that should have been fired 3 years ago.

We have treated a symptom, but the disease remains.

What doesn't help you is coming on here and telling people "you just don't know what's going on," and then not telling anyone what is "really" going on. If you aren't going to tell us, don't tell us we are wrong. It gives the appearance of being an elitist.

Edited December 10, 2015 by UNT90

HoustonEagle · December 10, 2015

Somehow this discussion did not go where I would have thought. The data primarily says that people will come once we are winning, and that 70% of RVs job to get that done is hiring the coach who will do that. No need ragging on the fans.
Oh and let me add, that it does not take all that much winning. See where the line crosses the 0 (equal winning and losing streaks). Yep that would be somewhere just under 21k average. A bit of consistent winning and we will have sellouts because the average will go up to 25k which will bump against the capacity on some games.
With regard to this whole SMU game thing. Attendance will be up for reasons such as "new season" the new coach will bring a few hundred and SMU being a rival where both teams have a shot at winning will bring out some people on UNTs side as well as SMUs. But then again for a lot of casual fans we will still be on a losing streak and believing enough to move their butts to Apogee will not happen before they see us winning. And the data I put up says that the latter usually trumps the former, so if I'd have to guess I'd say I expect about 17 to 21k depending on time and weather and marketing effort. If we'd have the same hype after winning the last 2 games of the season it would more be like 23-28k

How did you find enough wins to even do this analysis? I'm serious. We have won so little in the last 12 years I don't think we can even pretend to project what would happen if we became a consistent winner.

UNTLifer · December 10, 2015

I think the students will show. I was shocked at the turnout at the Union shown during "The First 48" video.

Schedule SMU in the evening, 7pm or 8pm kickoff, and make the game an event and see what happens.

Cr1028 · December 10, 2015

No one outside the 8k hardcore fans know a thing about the new coach's offensive system, and they won't before SMU.

If they watched the ACC championship game they will.

Edited December 10, 2015 by Cr1028

NorthTexan95 · December 10, 2015

I love the chart and the data ... unfortunately it's probably a bit over RV's head so he won't get it.

oldguystudent · December 10, 2015

I satirically made the reference of "piss ants" after hearing it from a fellow suite holder and friend of mine, and thought is was kind of funny. Well it's not funny. We all know the truth, we need me, you, students, alumni in Dallas, everybody. The guy buying the endzone family pack pizza deal is just as important as anybody on game day.

There has been change in the ticket office. There has been noticeable change in the mailers I've received. Hopefully there will be change in who oversees mean green club growth for the commoners. Everybody wants to feel valued. For me, that doesn't necessarily need to involved whether or not anybody listens to what I have to say about depth charts or coaching hires, but rather that I'm valued for giving a large sum of money relative to my annual income. Heretofore, whenever directly dealing with the office and not going through you, they've made me feel like I'm a burden and occasionally, and I quote, "A dumbass." The source of the latter nomenclature has obviously and thankfully moved on.

wardly · December 10, 2015

Once again we will start with a clean slate. And once again the hard core Eagle fans will attend our home opener. T.V. sets the time. After years of being hidden in the Belt I find it funny when we complain about a televised afternoon game vs. evening. I would hope that we have 20,000+.

Cr1028 · December 10, 2015

Or Littrell could be in over his head.
Point being we won't know probably until mid 2017 season, although we should have a pretty good feel mid 2016.
The other problems will remain because the AD remains. Those of us that don't get tickets personally delivered will still have to cross our fingers and hope that a ticket office that has been a problem for years can get away game tickets mailed to us, even though we ordered them a month in advance. We will still have to deal with crappy marketing and promotions. We will still have to deal with basketball season and a coach that should have been fired 3 years ago.
We have treated a symptom, but the disease remains.
What doesn't help you is coming on here and telling people "you just don't know what's going on," and then not telling anyone what is "really" going on. If you aren't going to tell us, don't tell us we are wrong. It gives the appearance of being an elitist.

90 be like

41LEKO3wQuL._SX300_.jpg

ColoradoEagle · December 10, 2015

Once again we will start with a clean slate. And once again the hard core Eagle fans will attend our home opener. T.V. sets the time. After years of being hidden in the Belt I find it funny when we complain about a televised afternoon game vs. evening. I would hope that we have 20,000+.

If our televised game is on FS1 or something, that's different. We played Rice at 1:30 in the afternoon in the middle of September to be on Fox College Sports. That's a channel 99% of people have never even heard of. It's not even in HD. Screw that.

Cr1028 · December 10, 2015

Once again we will start with a clean slate. And once again the hard core Eagle fans will attend our home opener. T.V. sets the time. After years of being hidden in the Belt I find it funny when we complain about a televised afternoon game vs. evening. I would hope that we have 20,000+.

untjim1995 · December 10, 2015

It will never happen but hear me out. The SMU game should be free for any non season ticket holder (season ticket holders..thank you and don't flip a lid).
We finally sell (or should I say pack) this beautiful stadium. These "new" fans spend $$$ on concessions and enjoy the experience which in turn could lead to them purchasing tickets in the future.
From an athletic department budget perspective I'm not sure of the ramifications but at this point (year 5 of Apogee) we should explore all avenues to get people in here.
Think of the pictures we would have to use in future marketing and showing to recruits.

This is what needs to be done for the Bethune-Cookman game, just as it should have been done for the last home game against UTEP. The empty 27,000 seats at Apogee for that last game didn't buy one coke, program, or t-shirt.

But it really doesn't matter--RV will never consider something like this or it would have already happened at various points along the way of the last decade of suckitude.

90 be like

Doesn't this sum up about 90% of all posts on here from every poster?

outoftown · December 10, 2015

How did you find enough wins to even do this analysis? I'm serious. We have won so little in the last 12 years I don't think we can even pretend to project what would happen if we became a consistent winner.

Fair point. I guess the graph shows more that people leaving is very well correlated to how much losing we are doing, with the influence of the little winning we did slightly sprinkled in. That said, the conclusion remains, that the more UNT loses, the less people are in the stands/ then less UNT loses the more people are in the stands and that winning or losing is the most important factor for predicting annual average attendance.

And from your post I take it you will agree, when I say that RV does not have a point when he claims that we tried winning and the people did not come out.

Edited December 10, 2015 by outoftown

UNT90 · December 10, 2015

90 be like

Actually, just the opposite. But whatevs

Christopher Walker · December 10, 2015

Fair point. I guess the graph shows more that people leaving is very well correlated to how much losing we are doing, with the influence of the little winning we did slightly sprinkled in. That said, the conclusion remains, that the more UNT loses, the less people are in the stands and that winning or losing is the most important factor for predicing annual average attendance.
And from your post I take it you will agree, when I say that RV does not have a point when he claims that we tried winning and the people did not come out.

Here's the thing though, wins are not the end all-be all to this problem. For entertainment of any kind, it also takes proper marketing and engagement to draw consistent, loyal crowds; or more simply, the product will never just speak for itself. See: the aftermath of our legendary Heart of Dallas Bowl-winning season.

See also this: I work for one of our two major big (non-jazz oriented) music festivals here in town, 35 Denton. This week, we released the first in a series of puppet promos, transforming popular music venues into miniatures.

This video contains absolutely no info regarding any artists that will be playing the fest next Spring, and yet its mere existence and proliferation has already garnered a significant boost in pre-sale numbers. Why? How? Well, for one it's an incredibly well-made promo that has money behind it; it draws on the incredibly well-respected brand that we've crafted over the years (one that even survived a re-organization and year off!) as well as appeals to cultural touchstones of the town; and it builds hype in a way that is backed up by excellent customer service and engagement.

Marketing matters; especially for the entertainment dollar.

-----------

@flyonthewall, it's good to hear your tune on some items has evolved... or perhaps with the hire done, you're more able to talk about stuff. You're still always welcome to come by my office and continue our chat from last time...

ColoradoEagle · December 10, 2015

This video contains absolutely no info regarding any artists that will be playing the fest next Spring, and yet its mere existence and proliferation has already garnered a significant boost in pre-sale numbers.

It's a very cool video, but maybe I'm missing something...62 views?