JJ feeling heat at LSU

greenjoe · December 2, 2015

I'll offer this once and only once. If Johnny comes back, he can have his old job back. But none of this maybe or with a bunch of silly incentives. Come back, and we'll just forget that little boo boo that interrupted your time here.

Just don't let it happen again.

GO MEAN GREEN

CMJ · December 2, 2015

I feel like Johnny did this at UNT though as well- he overperformed when his team was supposed to underperform, and he underperformed when his team had high expectations.

It's not like JJ is the only coach to do that though.

Take Coach K's five national championships. I'd argue that four of those he didn't really have the best team on paper. However, he probably had the best team and didn't win half a dozen times.

Crap happens.

Edited December 2, 2015 by CMJ

UNTFan23 · December 2, 2015

Meanwhile last Sunday night out in Knoxville....

FirefightnRick · December 2, 2015

LOL!!!!!!!!! I know right? That was my thoughts exactly. JJ is gone, he's not coming back. Get over him already!

Rick

UNTLifer · December 2, 2015

Ok. So who's your picture of..Kram or RV cause we know how you have that thing for sweater vests?

Rick

Digging deep and so off target. Nice try though.

UNT90 · December 2, 2015

I had a post in another thread about looking forward and how that is the proper thing to do in business and in life.

It so applies to this thread and everyone in it...

southsideguy · December 3, 2015

yet benford's seat is not even warm

Edited December 3, 2015 by southsideguy

Quoner · December 3, 2015

I'd say I'd love for him to bring Ben Simmons with him, but you guys would find a way to ruin that

Screw JJ - just imagine the fun if we had Simmons dropping another 40 and 10 while our fans critique his body language and the ramifications of how he uses his ding dong?

Army of Dad · December 3, 2015

Screw JJ - just imagine the fun if we had Simmons dropping another 40 and 10 while our fans critique his body language and the ramifications of how he uses his ding dong?

Only 10 boards!?

Quoner · December 3, 2015

Only 10 boards!?

Exactly. Roger Franklin would have had 14.

GangGreen · December 3, 2015

I had a post in another thread

You have a post in every thread.

UNT90 · December 3, 2015

You have a post in every thread.

Ain't it grand!!!!

Mean Green Matt · December 4, 2015

I don't know if we had peaked under JJ or not, but just because the guy who was hired (who was not a proven winner with head coaching experience) completely decimated what JJ built doesn't mean JJ is the best we could do the next time around.

Censored by Laurie · December 4, 2015

I don't know if we had peaked under JJ or not, but just because the guy who was hired (who was not a proven winner with head coaching experience) completely decimated what JJ built doesn't mean JJ is the best we could do the next time around.

I think even JJ's most ardent supporters openly talked about his shortcomings...in philosophy, player evaluation/usage, in-game coaching, et al...and wondered that if the bar were to be continually raised, could JJ continue to hit an increasingly high target.

that said...how far out out reach now does that even mediocre bar of 20 win seasons, competing for conference championships and early NCAA exits look right now?

perhaps we could do better...

but...let's say JJ is fired from LSU...and UNT finally does the right thing and cuts Benford loose...and JJ still has a strong affinity for Denton...and JJ has the stomach for another total reclamation project. he's someone who knows the program...would reinvigorate the fan base, if only out of nostalgia for some...certainly still has his local recruiting ties, now coupled with the doors a name like LSU opens.

we could also do a whole hell of a lot worse.

untlynchka1 · December 4, 2015

I think even JJ's most ardent supporters openly talked about his shortcomings...in philosophy, player evaluation/usage, in-game coaching, et al...and wondered that if the bar were to be continually raised, could JJ continue to hit an increasingly high target.

that said...how far out out reach now does that even mediocre bar of 20 win seasons, competing for conference championships and early NCAA exits look right now?
perhaps we could do better...

but...let's say JJ is fired from LSU...and UNT finally does the right thing and cuts Benford loose...and JJ still has a strong affinity for Denton...and JJ has the stomach for another total reclamation project. he's someone who knows the program...would reinvigorate the fan base, if only out of nostalgia for some...certainly still has his local recruiting ties, now coupled with the doors a name like LSU opens.
we could also do a whole hell of a lot worse.

first off, this actually happens and jj is free while we are looking for a coach, we go after him no questions asked.

Secondly, we are not a total reclamation project. We actually have a lot of talent. Probably more than most of jj's teams. We just have no head coach. Nobody that knows how to get what he needs to get out of his players.

Like y'all said jj underperformed a couple times, and he lost some games he probably shouldn't have lost, but he put us in position where we thought we shouldn't have lost those games.

Dont forget, he won 18 games his last year with both Cj and jordan failing out the second semester. T Mitch had way better numbers, and that was why we had all the optimism. Benford came in with all of them and only won 14?

Edited December 4, 2015 by untlynchka1

MeanGreenTexan · December 4, 2015

first off, this actually happens and jj is free while we are looking for a coach, we go after him no questions asked.
Secondly, we are not a total reclamation project. We actually have a lot of talent. Probably more than most of jj's teams. We just have no head coach. Nobody that knows how to get what he needs to get out of his players.
Like y'all said jj underperformed a couple times, and he lost some games he probably shouldn't have lost, but he put us in position where we thought we shouldn't have lost those games.
Dont forget, he won 18 games his last year with both Cj and Tristan failing out the second semester. T Mitch had way better numbers, and that was why we had all the optimism. Benford came in with all of them and only won 14?

Maybe several of JJ's first 3-4 yrs, but say 2006-07 (the 1st tourney year), this team would be wiped all over the floor by all of JJ's frontcourts.

Tristan never failed, and was not here when CJ and (I think you mean) Jordan.

Edit: Can you imagine Tramiel/Odufuwa down low being guarded by any of these post players?

Edited December 4, 2015 by MeanGreenTexan

UNT Five&Dime · December 4, 2015

Maybe several of JJ's first 3-4 yrs, but say 2006-07 (the 1st tourney year), this team would be wiped all over the floor by all of JJ's frontcourts.
Tristan never failed, and was not here when CJ and (I think you mean) Jordan.

Edit: Can you imagine Tramiel/Odufuwa down low being guarded by any of these post players?

Odufu who?

untlynchka1 · December 4, 2015

Maybe several of JJ's first 3-4 yrs, but say 2006-07 (the 1st tourney year), this team would be wiped all over the floor by all of JJ's frontcourts.
Tristan never failed, and was not here when CJ and (I think you mean) Jordan.

Edit: Can you imagine Tramiel/Odufuwa down low being guarded by any of these post players?

I did. Stupid alcohol

CMJ · December 4, 2015

first off, this actually happens and jj is free while we are looking for a coach, we go after him no questions asked.
Secondly, we are not a total reclamation project. We actually have a lot of talent. Probably more than most of jj's teams. We just have no head coach. Nobody that knows how to get what he needs to get out of his players.
Like y'all said jj underperformed a couple times, and he lost some games he probably shouldn't have lost, but he put us in position where we thought we shouldn't have lost those games.
Dont forget, he won 18 games his last year with both Cj and jordan failing out the second semester. T Mitch had way better numbers, and that was why we had all the optimism. Benford came in with all of them and only won 14?

No, we went a big fat 12-20 Benford's first season. We could only wish for fourteen wins.

buff64 · December 4, 2015

I'd say I'd love for him to bring Ben Simmons with him, but you guys would find a way to ruin that

Simmons will be gone before JJ.

Army of Dad · December 4, 2015

Odufu who?

ODUFU WAH!

GrandGreen · December 7, 2015

Maybe several of JJ's first 3-4 yrs, but say 2006-07 (the 1st tourney year), this team would be wiped all over the floor by all of JJ's frontcourts.
Tristan never failed, and was not here when CJ and (I think you mean) Jordan.

Edit: Can you imagine Tramiel/Odufuwa down low being guarded by any of these post players?

Yes, I actually think Combs will be a better player than either one and by the time he is a junior or senior Brice could be a force. Of course I also believe that another coach would be much more able to develop that front court than what NT has now.

The thing about Jones at NT was that his recruiting was nothing special for years. He didn't get the name recruits until his last couple of years, so no one knows what he could have done if he remained at NT. His forte was getting a good group of players and keeping them together for years and developing them into team seemingly always peaking at the end of the year. At LSU, he is getting the premier players and it remains to be seen if he can develop them into something special.

TheTastyGreek · December 7, 2015

The thing about Jones at NT was that his recruiting was nothing special for years. He didn't get the name recruits until his last couple of years, so no one knows what he could have done if he remained at NT. His forte was getting a good group of players and keeping them together for years and developing them into team seemingly always peaking at the end of the year. At LSU, he is getting the premier players and it remains to be seen if he can develop them into something special.

There's a lot of truth to that... If I remember right (Vito's DRC article seems to have vanished into internet oblivion, sadly), Tristan Thompson was the first high school 3-star recruit we got here under JJ, and that didn't happen until 2007.

It took a while, arguably until after the first and maybe even the second NCAA bids, to get first crack at legit game-ready high school talent under JJ. Grand is right that he managed to develop guys and find players like Quincy and Hopkins... One thing that I think was impressive was his (or the staff's) ability to maintain relationships and come close to making the sale, even if a bigger offer or the lack of notable success kept a high school talent from signing on right out of school. What he wasn't able to bring in out of high school, he did a brilliant job of getting in sophomore or junior transfers (Kendrick, Keith Wooden, Odufuwa, Colin Dennis, etc.).

When you look back at the progression of recruiting while JJ was here, there's a clear path upwards from lowly regarded 4 year recruits (no disrespect - some of whom developed wonderfully), transfers, through to fringe 3-star high school talent (after the first NCAA berth), and then the really big class after the second NCAA berth. Guys like Jordan Williams and Tristan, if they'd been recruits in the early 2000's, probably would have wound up like some of those other names... Taking a lower level BCS school offer and, if we were lucky, coming back to us on a rebound.

I don't think it was an ever-increasing trajectory... I don't think, even if he'd stayed, that we'd be regularly pulling in 4 star recruits (and certainly not Tony Mitchell-level players, in terms of recruit rankings). But I think that whatever he wasn't able to do recruiting in the first half of his tenure, JJ really built on his own foundation in the latter half.

One other thing I thought about a lot during the Deandre Harris shenanigans... I wonder what could have happened if Tony Benford coached Michael Sturns.