Carlos Harris

greenminer · November 30, 2015

I was ready to side with Rick's perception, then I found this. The shoulder clearly lays into the helmet of a defenseless player. FFR's snapshots dont' really capture it.

FirefightnRick · November 30, 2015

I was ready to side with Rick's perception, then I found this. The shoulder clearly lays into the helmet of a defenseless player. FFR's snapshots dont' really capture it.

I have that video and I can slow it down even more so. Doesn't change my mind at all.

He doesn't leave the ground to launch,...and his shoulder touches the chest first. If he wanted to intentionally hurt that player he could have led with his head to head or shoulder to head. Had either been used you would know it and the player wouldn't have gotten up.

Rick

golfingomez · November 30, 2015

regardless if it was legal or not, it was too violent... that's all that matters when it comes to these penalties... if it looks bad, the flag is thrown

FirefightnRick · November 30, 2015

Yeah you guys might want to read the rules. It could not be more textbook targeting according to what I am reading here.

Except for the part where it reads "...to the head or neck area..." His shoulder touches the chest first.

Rick

Thank you for posting the rule. Not sure how anyone can watch the play and not understand why a flag was thrown. Harris could have easily blocked the guy without trying to take his head off.

You couldn't avoid the head any better.

Rick

KingDL1 · November 30, 2015

Except for the part where it reads "...to the head or neck area..." His shoulder touches the chest first.

Rick
You couldn't avoid the head any better.

Rick

The angle tells me nothing the 10 replays yesterday he caught the defenseless player in the side of the head, did he graze his jersey or pads on the way, shit maybe but I feel he was head hunting and he seems to be trying to take the guys head off from the get-go . This is not a situation where the other player suddenly changed positions and it was too late to hit him square. He lined him up to take a shot to the defenseless player's head with his shoulder and sprung on it. Which is the how I read the rule.

If at times do I think targeting is a bad rule I do, not in this case because no matter how you slice it is was cheap and dirty shot. It is the absolute reason this rule was made, he could have broke the other players neck.

Rick I hope I am not coming across as an ass, I really do think it was Carlos's intent, by how he lined up for the hit, to his tweets, and his sideline celebration.

Edited November 30, 2015 by KingDL1

UNTexas · November 30, 2015

Yeah you guys might want to read the rules. It could not be more textbook targeting according to what I am reading here.

Did we watch the same hit? Shoulder to chest and one foot on the ground. The UTEP player happened to be looking away. I played this game. You take that shot every chance you get. I've been on the receiving end too. Way worse than that hit and I deserved it for lack of situational awareness. Sorry everyone's hatred of one of our own players makes them blind to a damn near perfect block. Total bs.

FirefightnRick · November 30, 2015

Great hit Sed!!!!!

Helmet to helmet. QB's helmet is knocked off,..was there a call? I don't remember but this tackle was applauded by everyone.

Rick

Did we watch the same hit? Shoulder to chest and one foot on the ground. The UTEP player happened to be looking away. I played this game. You take that shot every chance you get. I've been on the receiving end too. Way worse than that hit and I deserved it for lack of situational awareness. Sorry everyone's hatred of one of our own players makes them blind to a damn near perfect block. Total bs.

^....he gets it.

Rick

UNTcrazy727 · November 30, 2015

Great hit Sed!!!!!

Helmet to helmet. QB's helmet is knocked off,..was there a call? I don't remember but this tackle was applauded by everyone.

Rick

A player running with the ball usually isn't considered "defenseless." And I'm sorry, but Carlos clearly launches himself into the neck/head area. You keep harping on the fact that he had one foot on the ground, but that doesn't matter. By the time he makes full contact both feet are off the ground. Meanwhile, Ellis was clearly on the ground and just ducked his head/shoulder into the hit. Really not sure how you can't see the difference...

KingDL1 · November 30, 2015

A player running with the ball usually isn't considered "defenseless." And I'm sorry, but Carlos clearly launches himself into the neck/head area. You keep harping on the fact that he had one foot on the ground, but that doesn't matter. By the time he makes full contact both feet are off the ground. Meanwhile, Ellis was clearly on the ground and just ducked his head/shoulder into the hit. Really not sure how you can't see the difference...

Plus there is nothing in the rule about feet on the ground or not.

Targeting and Initiating Contact to Head or Neck Area of a Defenseless Player (Rule 9-1-4)
No player shall target and initiate contact to the head or neck area of a defenseless opponent with the helmet, forearm, fist, elbow or shoulder. When in question, it is a foul. (Rule 2-27-14)

UNTpolitico · November 30, 2015

Plus there is nothing in the rule about feet on the ground or not.

I was so disgusted by his sideline performance my focus on the rules and the play itself was absent.

KingDL1 · November 30, 2015

I was so disgusted by his sideline performance my focus on the rules and the play itself was absent.

I thought it was a total embarrassment.

greenit · November 30, 2015

I am thankful of Carlos' contributions to the program. It became pretty obvious over the years that he was a me first player, but then again most WRs are. He did not have a strong QB leader for the last couple of years to keep him in check. He has obvious passion, but needed someone to teach him how to harness it correctly.

Hated the antics after the penalty.

FirefightnRick · November 30, 2015

A player running with the ball usually isn't considered "defenseless." And I'm sorry, but Carlos clearly launches himself into the neck/head area. You keep harping on the fact that he had one foot on the ground, but that doesn't matter. By the time he makes full contact both feet are off the ground. Meanwhile, Ellis was clearly on the ground and just ducked his head/shoulder into the hit. Really not sure how you can't see the difference...

It only matters when countless people keep claiming he launched and left the ground to hit him when video and photos show he clearly did not.

But again....Sed Ellis's hit was much worse. Although the QB has the ball, like the guy Carlos hit he never sees it coming and is just as defenseless(but I know the rule wouldn't apply there)..., Sed not only could have injured the MTSU QB by hitting him in the head he placed himself in as just as much danger of severe injury. Yet everyone here applauded Sed's hit, remember?

Rick

I thought it was a total embarrassment.

Agree. He'll look back on it someday and realize it wasn't the right way to go out. At least I hope he does.

Rick

Cerebus · November 30, 2015

I think a lot of people's negative opinion of the player are causing them to read what they want in the hit.

UNTexas · November 30, 2015

A player running with the ball usually isn't considered "defenseless." And I'm sorry, but Carlos clearly launches himself into the neck/head area. You keep harping on the fact that he had one foot on the ground, but that doesn't matter. By the time he makes full contact both feet are off the ground. Meanwhile, Ellis was clearly on the ground and just ducked his head/shoulder into the hit. Really not sure how you can't see the difference...

People are harping on the feet because everyone says he launched himself. Sorry, it was a perfect form block. Players practice this their entire careers. He didn't do the flying squirrel into him and the player was absolutely not defenseless. The defender was unaware of his surroundings and got blocked in a huge way. Harris reacted the way he did and that's on him. He did a perfect job on the field. I guarantee you if there were in films next week the coaches applaud him in the film room. It's very solid football. Arm Chair QB all you want on the Internet but he was well in the right and I don't know a single guy who played at this level that would disagree except maybe the guy who took the hit.

I speak from this as a player who took a much more gruesome hit to my earhole. I got a concussion, wind knocked out of me, and a busted knee. #22 from NMSU destroyed me. I'll never forget and it was my fault. Bill Michaels even said jokingly in the film room you can't run down the feild acting like the big dog. I never did again. I payed attention from that day forward. It was a lesson and it's just the game.

Additionally, his reaction sucked but there were more emotions going through his head after he was ejected than most people can possibly image. He reacted horribly but he shouldn't have ended a great college career doing his job well.

Edited November 30, 2015 by UNTexas

Cerebus · November 30, 2015

The defender was unaware of his surroundings and got blocked in a huge way.

+one million.

greenit · November 30, 2015

As I recall, they threw a flag on Sed Ellis, reviewed it, and picked it up. They threw a flag on Carlos, reviewed it, and the call stood. It could be due to additional changes over the last couple of years.

As I recall, the thing that made the Sed play look so bad is that the ball carrier had left his feet and Sed caught him mid air. It was definitely a borderline play.

Say what you want, but the Carlos play is an example of the type of play that they are trying to take out of the game, along with the DBs that unload on a receiver when they are in a defenseless position. If Carlos would have more clearly blocked him below the shoulders, it would not have drawn a flag. He was borderline too high and it was flagged and upheld.

Times have changed.

FirefightnRick · November 30, 2015

As I recall, they threw a flag on Sed Ellis, reviewed it, and picked it up. They threw a flag on Carlos, reviewed it, and the call stood. It could be due to additional changes over the last couple of years.
As I recall, the thing that made the Sed play look so bad is that the ball carrier had left his feet and Sed caught him mid air. It was definitely a borderline play.
Say what you want, but the Carlos play is an example of the type of play that they are trying to take out of the game, along with the DBs that unload on a receiver when they are in a defenseless position. If Carlos would have more clearly blocked him below the shoulders, it would not have drawn a flag. He was borderline too high and it was flagged and upheld.
Times have changed.

BTW...I posted this two years ago,..that Emmitt and I sat next to Grammar's family at the Armed Forces Bowl. I asked his dad about that hit and he said he told his son he's gotta keep his head on a better swivel than that or he won't have a head to keep. That's great advice.

Rick

UNTcrazy727 · November 30, 2015

It only matters when countless people keep claiming he launched and left the ground to hit him when video and photos show he clearly did not.
But again....Sed Ellis's hit was much worse. Although the QB has the ball, like the guy Carlos hit he never sees it coming and is just as defenseless(but I know the rule wouldn't apply there)..., Sed not only could have injured the MTSU QB by hitting him in the head he placed himself in as just as much danger of severe injury. Yet everyone here applauded Sed's hit, remember?
Rick
Agree. He'll look back on it someday and realize it wasn't the right way to go out. At least I hope he does.

Rick

Why don't you post a photo of Carlos still making contact with the defender with both feet IN THE AIR. But like it's been stated on this thread before, the rule says nothing about "launching." It's about making forceable contact to the head area of a defenseless player(the QB in Zed's hit is not considered defenseless). The second the hit happened I knew a flag was coming and so should have anyone else who has watched football the past 3 years. It seems to me like you and others are just pissed with how the game has changed rather than understand the rule.

Got5onIt · November 30, 2015

I think a lot of people's negative opinion of the player are causing them to read what they want in the hit.

Agreed. Hit looked legit to me. Lots of Harris hate popping up on this thread for other reasons...

UNTLifer · November 30, 2015

IMHO, the hit was clean, his reaction was disgusting. Bye.

Silent Eagle · November 30, 2015

It was the reaction. It's one thing to play with emotion, but this simply provided more gravitas towards his established pattern of behavior confirming he's got a $hitbag attitude. I didn't see the play, so I can't speak intelligently on it. However, his attitude, inability to adhere to social media blackouts, and his general lack of leadership as a senior on a team that desperately needed a leader make it difficult for those concerned with the football team to give him a break.

MeanGreenD · November 30, 2015

When I got home from the game, my Dad told me how disgusting that was, both hit and behavior.

I couldn't have disagreed more. Happened right in front of my seat. Sunday morning, turned on SportsCenter while they showed highlights of hit after hit after hit including OU & OKSt players having stuff exploding from their helmets after a collision.

I found myself in the locker room after the game. Carlos was talking with his teammates about it. Joked about he was "smallest guy on the field". He's taken hit, after hit, after hit (y'all remember a couple years ago when UTSAs Okatcha (sp?) lit him up!?)

Carlos' reaction is misinterpreted. He was fuming and throwing the deuces was a way of throwing the middle finger at the refs. Had the refs let him play the game of football, the game we all love because there are so many big hits, then he may have ended his career the way he really wanted by catching a TD in the closing minutes.

You'll see this same hit over and over throughout the bowl games and playoffs, and it'll be celebrated by everyone in college football.

Eagle-96 · November 30, 2015

I think what the refs saw was a thrust infraction which doesn't necessitate having both feet off of the ground. Regardless the defender should have his head on a swivel and be aware of his surroundings at all times. You can't simply lock onto the ball carrier in that situation. Field awareness is a pee wee league fundamental. Immediately after the hit he started bowing up and clinching his fists in excitement. That tells me he was only interested in how hard he hit the player, not that he made a good block that helped his team. He was all about Carlos right there. Then, the post infraction reaction on the sideline was sorry. Go back and look at the tape, Carlos was anticipating the ejection and looked almost excited that he got kicked out. He grins and laughs and jumps up and down. Look at me everyone. Laughing and running off the field. It was all about Carlos. I just wish he would have represented UNT with more class than that. How about hugging some teammates, apologizing to your coach for putting the team in that position and then walking off the field.

rcade · November 30, 2015

Did we watch the same hit? Shoulder to chest and one foot on the ground. The UTEP player happened to be looking away. I played this game. You take that shot every chance you get. I've been on the receiving end too. Way worse than that hit and I deserved it for lack of situational awareness. Sorry everyone's hatred of one of our own players makes them blind to a damn near perfect block. Total bs.

You're living in the past. Football has changed because of CTE. You can't head hunt or do anything close to head hunting any more. This isn't the era where those hits always get you celebrated on SportsCenter. It's the one where they get you flagged and ejected. The refs who tossed Carlos watched replays. The call wasn't a mistake. It's how they enforce the rules today.

If you love the game you should welcome the new rules. CTE is an enormous health problem and there's new stories all the time making the case that football is too dangerous for young people to play. The latest story is that Frank Gifford had it.

Here's a brain scan an 18-year-old who suffered multiple concussions in football and already had CTE:

http://www.bu.edu/cte/our-research/case-studies/18-year-old/

Football players have to adjust how they hit to protect each others' brains. Refs will use penalties and ejections to enforce this.

Edited November 30, 2015 by rcade