VCU & Wichita St

GMG24 · November 21, 2015

These guys get it along with UTA! Be good at something. Makes your university recognizable.

ChristopherRyanWilkes · November 21, 2015

Agree. We've tried to make both football and basketball a priority and have failed.

Edited November 21, 2015 by ChristopherRyanWilkes

meangreenacct · November 21, 2015

Agree. We've tried to make both football and basketball a priority and have failed.

Have we really tried either?

oldguystudent · November 21, 2015

I've been considering doing a thing on my other alma mater and how they're kicking ass and taking names and why I think that is, but history tells me it would be unwise to do so.

ChristopherRyanWilkes · November 21, 2015

Have we really tried either?

Debatable. In terms of resources? Yes, we have tried to spread it out, but more towards football obviously. These schools don't have a football team to embarrass them and have wisely focused on more realistic things like basketball and baseball.

I've been considering doing a thing on my other alma mater and how they're kicking ass and taking names and why I think that is, but history tells me it would be unwise to do so.

Go for it, I'd like to hear it at least. We probably agree.

Edited November 21, 2015 by ChristopherRyanWilkes

UNT90 · November 21, 2015

Nothing screams lack of effort in both sports like leaving a terribly ineffective AD in place for 15 years.

UNT cares about neither program.

Edited November 21, 2015 by UNT90

ChristopherRyanWilkes · November 21, 2015

Nothing screams lack of effort like in both sports like leaving a terribly ineffective AD in place for 15 years.
UNT cares about neither program.

My main point is if we aren't going to make football a priority and get serious about it then we would be better off focusing on basketball. This point has been made before but I agree with it. I love football, but if I'm going to watch a 1-9 team, Id rather watch just a quality basketball team.

UNT90 · November 21, 2015

My main point is if we aren't going to make football a priority and get serious about it then we would be better off focusing on basketball. This point has been made before but I agree with it. I love football, but if I'm going to watch a 1-9 team, Id rather watch just a quality basketball team.

But the counter point is UNT doesn't care about that, either. Look who they have left at head coach going into year 4.

The problem isn't a focus issue, it's a complete lack of priority issue.

In all major sports.

GrandGreen · November 21, 2015

These guys get it along with UTA! Be good at something. Makes your university recognizable.

Not sure what your point is. I suspect many at UTA would love to have football. Wichita State always had a good bb program even when they had football.

UTA dropped football, but I really haven't seen were they have elevated their BB because of it.

If anything, not having a high profile football team hurts basketball success. The P5 conferences will continue to try to edge those teams out of big time basketball just like they do G5's in football.

History will tell you that at NT the opposite is true. The best bb and fb teams in NT history IMO co-existed in the late 60's. As did the second best in both sports: Fry's football and Blakeley's basketball.

chrisfisher · November 21, 2015

Football forum? Really?

Aquila_Viridis · November 21, 2015

My daughter wanted to go to college in the city but not in Tennessee so NT and VCU were both discussed. But she also wanted to go to a place her friends had heard of and that has a positive reputation. Let's leave aside the academic rankings for now. Not having a football team at all took VCU out. Not having a recognizable or successful team took NT out. Of course, being in Wichita took WSU out despite all the glory of WUShock. I know NT isn't in the middle of a dense urban environment but it's close to one. Once you get out of a group of very good schools that are either hard to get into or hard to get out of state scholarships at, there are not many urban schools that appealed to her. That is an example of one reason why NT has such potential.

If NT could get the academics and athletics up to where LT is, NT could attract an entirely different class of students, particularly out-of-state students who still pay more even after scholarships. I keep singling out LT but they are ranked like 389 on Forbes where NT is 570. NT could compete for students very favorably against UH for example, with a ranking like that and a relatively successful football team. NT has no problem getting enough students; the mission should be to get better ones and ones that pay more. You can debate whether it makes societal sense, but the unarguable reality is that a lot of people form much of their opinion of a school from whether or not it can field a competitive football team. Having one will not make the difference against colleges like Texas, UCLA or Georgia Tech, but that's not who NT can expect to compete (for students) with for another hundred years. It WILL make a difference against a lot of other schools at the next tier down.

Basketball can not have such an effect. Leave it til the football gets fixed. If the team sucks, there are a lot of good students who will not want to tell their friends that's where they're going. This ain't Rice or Vanderbilt.

CMJ · November 21, 2015

Sure basketball can have that same effect. Just because your daughter wasn't interested in a school that didn't have football team doesn't mean that others aren't. Butler, VCU, and George Mason all had a surge of interest in their schools after they made the Final Four. Check applications at Gonzaga now versus 1998 before they started their reign of success. Wichita State has also gotten dividends from their last few years.

http://www.kshb.com/news/region-kansas/after-final-four-wichita-state-univ-with-more-new-students-in-fall-2014-than-ku-k-state-combined

Edited November 21, 2015 by CMJ

Ben Gooding · November 21, 2015

I've been saying this for some time. Pick 1 and go ALL IN.

UNT90 · November 21, 2015

I've been saying this for some time. Pick 1 and go ALL IN.

But UNT picks zero and never dips more than a toe.

Ben Gooding · November 21, 2015

But UNT picks zero and never dips more than a toe.

Maybe so...

But I have said on this very forum that I am a much bigger football fan than basketball. However, it is much easier to be competitive and nationally known in basketball than it is football. We have an old but nice facility in basketball. I think we have hit that time to start really investing into The Pit and devoting more resources in basketball. Unlike football, there are no attendance issues during the late fall and winter because the sport is played indoors. Like football, there are a lot of recruits in the DFW area looking for a home every year. Unlike football, the P5 can't take them all. It's plain as day which is the easier sport to be nationally competitive and known and it's basketball.

*If I'm AD I let it be known that this next football hire will not be a flashy, big name hire, but rather a no-name less expensive hire so that we can put more resources in basketball and become somebody to deal with on a national stage.