Slightly Different Take On The Schedule Question From Earlier This Week

greenit · November 19, 2015

This question is not meant to generate comments on the AD's ability to run a program and it is not asking whether we can afford to eliminate the current annual paycheck game. It is meant to try and determine if there is more interest from the fan base to play:

The current strategy (Option 1) 6 HOME GAMES
- a road game against a traditionally top 25 P5 program (I will call this the premier OOC game) - still get paid
- a home game against an FCS team (winnable (did not say guaranteed win) home game) - we pay them to come to Apogee
- smoo series (OOC rivalry game in H/H series)
- one additional H/H series (rotating H/H series against comparable G5 program with some brand appeal)
Potential strategy (Option 2) - THIS OPTION PRODUCES A 5 GAME HOME SCHEDULE EVERY OTHER YEAR
- a road game against a traditionally top 25 P5 program (I will call this the premier OOC game) - still get paid
- smoo series (OOC rivalry game in H/H series)
- one additional H/H series (rotating H/H series against comparable G5 program with some brand appeal)
- one additional H/H series (rotating H/H series against comparable G5 program with some brand appeal)
Potential strategy (Option 3) 6 HOME GAMES
- a rotating H/H series against what would normally be considered a bottom 20-25 P5 program or a top 5 G5 program with name appeal (premier OOC game)
- smoo series (OOC rivalry game in H/H series)
- rotating H/H series with non regional G5 program
- rotating H/H series with regional G5 programs (Texas and mostly bordering states, recognizable name due to proximity)

Edited November 19, 2015 by greenit

ADLER · November 19, 2015

We have a long history with NMSU, Texas St, Tulsa, Arkansas St, and Louisiana-Lafayette.

Those are all schools close enough for UNT fans to travel, and they would all bring decent crowds to Apogee. Rivalries would soon develop.

Other teams to consider would be UNM, Colorado St, Memphis, Hawaii etc

We theoretically have SMU and Army series for the next few years, maybe add in one non-regional team per year for h/h and any one of the above for a competitive 6 home 6 away all FBS schedule each year.

A real schedule (one without purchased victories or sold defeats) is the only way to succeed. It allows our team to win against teams that fans care about beating and gets us to bowls where we may have shots at P5 conferences.

1)Hire a coach and staff that we feel will field the best team possible. By Chico's admission North Texas has done a horrible job at this as recruiting and player development were neglected.

2) Schedule to win. Everyone else does it, some with 8 home games, and it works quite well for them. North Texas has done a horrible job at this by scheduling destructive bodybag games every year.

3) Promote the game as the "big event in town this week" and North Texas as "Our Home Team". Louisiana-Lafayette went from being a school with extremely low attendance to averaging twice what we do. How? They flooded their market with ULL gear and got people to come out to the tailgate parties. This was the same tactic employed by USF in its initial seasons. It worked at those schools and countless others. Until the last dozen years UNT merchandise was severely overpriced and only available through the two campus bookstores. Residents of Denton County are aware of North Texas but they have never become emotionally connected to North Texas.

4)Promote the games. This means finding ways to fill the seats with not just homeless, orphans, kindergartners, and detained immigrants, but actually marketing the promotions to people that may actually return and buy tickets.

5) Make the gameday the best that it possibly can be. Fans will not pay to come back if they have a bad time.We can't control the weather, but we can certainly forecast that it will be hot in September; schedule those games kickoff no earlier than 7:00. Searing temperatures bake our biggest contributor base, the students. No late summer games starting before sunset. Schedule more wisely around events, nobody wants to be at a football game on Halloween night but we keep scheduling games at that time.

North Texas has so much potential; beautiful facilities and a huge disengaged fanbase looking for any solid reason to support the program. It could be quite a successful program with some very basic adjustments.

UNT90 · November 19, 2015

This poll really doesn't matter. Our AD has said we will whore ourselves at least once a year. And that he wants this whorin' to happen.

Until we have a new AD with fresh ideas and a work ethic to change the culture inside the AD and fan base, ain't nothing changing.

greenit · November 19, 2015

Please don't post in this thread again UNT90 if you can't keep from posting about the AD. This thread has absolutely nothing to do with the AD. This thread is about understanding what the people on this board would like to see in a schedule. It is not concerned with how, or if, or who. That comes later.

Ben Gooding · November 19, 2015

I chose option 3. That gives us the best opportunity to build a real fan base with wins vs teams people have heard of.

MeanGreenTexan · November 19, 2015

Of course the ideal scenario would be #3. You cannot talk about this without talking about other issues that would keep it from happening.
Like... budgeting issues. Availability of those "Lower P5 - Upper G5" opponents & their willingness to do a h/h with us. Negotiating ability with those schools. Etc...

Also, you bring up the SMU series as a lock, but fail to bring up the Army series which is even more of a lock. So we have 2 OOC H/H series already lined up for the foreseeable future.

Travis · November 19, 2015

Who on Earth is ok with 5 home games every other year?! The two of you OUT YOURSELF!

ADLER · November 19, 2015

Please don't interpret my post above as not wanting to play against P5 schools.

We should play those, but only the ones that will play us in home&home series.

We just need to stop selling ourselves to schools that refuse to play road games.

Christopher Walker · November 19, 2015

You need a fourth option:

"Break out of Army series and FCS scheduling before they happen; schedule viable Home-and-Homes with P5s and higher G5s like seemingly every other school in our conference appear capable of doing."

ADLER · November 19, 2015

Just out of curiosity, why are you opposed to scheduling Army? That's a pretty well known opponent, lots of pageantry, and the media loves to cover them.

greenjoe · November 19, 2015

I'd like to see home-and-home games only with out-of-conference-opponents. For those teams that won't play us h-a-h, the price is $2mil.

untjim1995 · November 19, 2015

Who on Earth is ok with 5 home games every other year?! The two of you OUT YOURSELF!

I am.

I think that playing a FCS school is a gigantic waste of time and money, for fans and the program. We paid a FCS school hundreds of thousands of dollars this year to get prison raped on Homecoming. Last year, we paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to play a FCS school that each Denton High School would have beaten in Nicholls State, a team that literally didn't help us one bit for playing, in part because it made us believe we actually had a decent QB in Dajon Williams, who couldn't make plays against any FBS team. These games bring no one to Denton from the other schools, nor does it bring any casual fans to Apogee to watch the game. We need excitement and actual butts-in-seats, not to mention games that the DFW media might just try to have an interest in covering beyond a brief mention of the score.

If this year, for example, instead of Portland State, let's say we were playing a team here like Fresno State or San Diego State, while also playing in Dallas at SMU, and two other road games, that would have been 100% better than what we had this year. That would have been 5 home games, an alternative home game in Dallas, and 6 true road games. I'd be just fine with that every other year.

But don't fret--you can enjoy the great games against Bethune-Cookman, Lamar, Incarnate Word, and Abilene Christian in the coming years in a half-empty Apogee. But my stance of never attending a FCS game in Denton already paid off immensely by not witnessing the most embarrassing loss in modern college football history, at Homecoming no less. I sure hope that none of you have to endure another one of those epic losses again in person, but you're gonna get 4 more chances in the next 4 years for it to happen again, all so we can have 6 home games. Its yet another reason why we are unbelievably small-time--and why so many UNT students and alumni have zero interest in following us as their primary team. We make it really, really easy to be a t-shirt fan of the P5 giants around here before ever rooting for your own school. I know one thing--beating up FCS spares doesn't help this change. Actually competing--not even winning, just being competitive--against a well-recognized opponent at home would do 1000x more for us than beating a FCS team. But we will never get that chance anytime soon, because we are playing SMU and Army in alternative years here, two of the worst teams in FBS, as your primary OOC game.

Christopher Walker · November 19, 2015

Just out of curiosity, why are you opposed to scheduling Army? That's a pretty well known opponent, lots of pageantry, and the media loves to cover them.

Because they've never, ever had much of a draw. Plus, the length of time we're binding ourselves to them makes scheduling incredibly limiting.

Travis · November 19, 2015

I am.
I think that playing a FCS school is a gigantic waste of time and money, for fans and the program. We paid a FCS school hundreds of thousands of dollars this year to get prison raped on Homecoming. Last year, we paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to play a FCS school that each Denton High School would have beaten in Nicholls State, a team that literally didn't help us one bit for playing, in part because it made us believe we actually had a decent QB in Dajon Williams, who couldn't make plays against any FBS team. These games bring no one to Denton from the other schools, nor does it bring any casual fans to Apogee to watch the game. We need excitement and actual butts-in-seats, not to mention games that the DFW media might just try to have an interest in covering beyond a brief mention of the score.
If this year, for example, instead of Portland State, let's say we were playing a team here like Fresno State or San Diego State, while also playing in Dallas at SMU, and two other road games, that would have been 100% better than what we had this year. That would have been 5 home games, an alternative home game in Dallas, and 6 true road games. I'd be just fine with that every other year.
But don't fret--you can enjoy the great games against Bethune-Cookman, Lamar, Incarnate Word, and Abilene Christian in the coming years in a half-empty Apogee. But my stance of never attending a FCS game in Denton already paid off immensely by not witnessing the most embarrassing loss in modern college football history, at Homecoming no less. I sure hope that none of you have to endure another one of those epic losses again in person, but you're gonna get 4 more chances in the next 4 years for it to happen again, all so we can have 6 home games. Its yet another reason why we are unbelievably small-time--and why so many UNT students and alumni have zero interest in following us as their primary team. We make it really, really easy to be a t-shirt fan of the P5 giants around here before ever rooting for your own school. I know one thing--beating up FCS spares doesn't help this change. Actually competing--not even winning, just being competitive--against a well-recognized opponent at home would do 1000x more for us than beating a FCS team. But we will never get that chance anytime soon, because we are playing SMU and Army in alternative years here, two of the worst teams in FBS, as your primary OOC game.

You do realize there was a third option to have 6 home games and not one of those include FCS, right?

FirefightnRick · November 19, 2015

We have a long history with NMSU, Texas St, Tulsa, Arkansas St, and Louisiana-Lafayette.
Those are all schools close enough for UNT fans to travel, and they would all bring decent crowds to Apogee. Rivalries would soon develop.
Other teams to consider would be UNM, Colorado St, Memphis, Hawaii etc
We theoretically have SMU and Army series for the next few years, maybe add in one non-regional team per year for h/h and any one of the above for a competitive 6 home 6 away all FBS schedule each year.
A real schedule (one without purchased victories or sold defeats) is the only way to succeed. It allows our team to win against teams that fans care about beating and gets us to bowls where we may have shots at P5 conferences.
1)Hire a coach and staff that we feel will field the best team possible. By Chico's admission North Texas has done a horrible job at this as recruiting and player development were neglected.
2) Schedule to win. Everyone else does it, some with 8 home games, and it works quite well for them. North Texas has done a horrible job at this by scheduling destructive bodybag games every year.
3) Promote the game as the "big event in town this week" and North Texas as "Our Home Team". Louisiana-Lafayette went from being a school with extremely low attendance to averaging twice what we do. How? They flooded their market with ULL gear and got people to come out to the tailgate parties. This was the same tactic employed by USF in its initial seasons. It worked at those schools and countless others. Until the last dozen years UNT merchandise was severely overpriced and only available through the two campus bookstores. Residents of Denton County are aware of North Texas but they have never become emotionally connected to North Texas.
4)Promote the games. This means finding ways to fill the seats with not just homeless, orphans, kindergartners, and detained immigrants, but actually marketing the promotions to people that may actually return and buy tickets.
5) Make the gameday the best that it possibly can be. Fans will not pay to come back if they have a bad time.We can't control the weather, but we can certainly forecast that it will be hot in September; schedule those games kickoff no earlier than 7:00. Searing temperatures bake our biggest contributor base, the students. No late summer games starting before sunset. Schedule more wisely around events, nobody wants to be at a football game on Halloween night but we keep scheduling games at that time.
North Texas has so much potential; beautiful facilities and a huge disengaged fanbase looking for any solid reason to support the program. It could be quite a successful program with some very basic adjustments.

Excellent post. I recall, you traveled to the first game against South Florida in '01 and was amazed at the effort they put forward promoting that game at Tampa Bay Buckanerr Stadium.....which we lost 28-10. Leavitt's staff was having to use trailers houses as offices at the time.

Rick

Edited November 19, 2015 by FirefightnRick

rcade · November 19, 2015

Just out of curiosity, why are you opposed to scheduling Army? That's a pretty well known opponent, lots of pageantry, and the media loves to cover them.

Playing Army in a home and home is nice. Playing them 6 straight years is a bit much. How much excitement will the game generate in years 3-6?

MeanGreenTexan · November 19, 2015

Playing Army in a home and home is nice. Playing them 6 straight years is a bit much. How much excitement will the game generate in years 3-6?

We're trying to win games though.
Army is a beatable team. Every year.
I kinda agree about having them for 6yrs (I actually thought it was 8?) being a little long, hamstringing future schedules... but we could do much worse than Army as far as fan excitement, while trying to also schedule a winnable game. I always enjoy the flyovers and such that comes with a game VS any of the Service Academies.

forevereagle · November 19, 2015

I kinda agree about having them for 6yrs (I actually thought it was 8?)

I believe it was a total of 8 games, but we played the first two already.

MeanGreenTexan · November 19, 2015

I believe it was a total of 8 games, but we played the first two already.

Really? The 8 games were scheduled way back in 2009 or so? We first played Army at Fouts.

Stix · November 19, 2015

Just out of curiosity, why are you opposed to scheduling Army? That's a pretty well known opponent, lots of pageantry, and the media loves to cover them.

Because they've never, ever had much of a draw. Plus, the length of time we're binding ourselves to them makes scheduling incredibly limiting.

Huh?

Nov. 10, 2007 vs. Navy Attendance: 26,012
Nov. 21, 2009 vs. Army Attendance: 23,647

I'll agree that we shouldn't tie up our schedule playing the same school every year for 8 - 10 years (other than our conference opponents). I would like to see us play a lot of different schools.

untjim1995 · November 19, 2015

You do realize there was a third option to have 6 home games and not one of those include FCS, right?

That scenario is preferable, no doubt...its just not realistic. We are poors--we gotta lift that skirt if we are gonna pay for non-revenue sports.

forevereagle · November 19, 2015

Really? The 8 games were scheduled way back in 2009 or so? We first played Army at Fouts.

I think so. We signed 8 games, 2 played immediately with the rest to start next year. I could be wrong, but that is my recollection.

Travis · November 19, 2015

That scenario is preferable, no doubt...its just not realistic. We are poors--we gotta lift that skirt if we are gonna pay for non-revenue sports.

But, it seems that many, many like caliber schools can do it. Why is it not realistic for us?

Huff · November 20, 2015

If money were not part of the situation option 3 would be my choice. If money were not part of the situation I would be driving a Mercedes instead of a Ford.

greenit · November 20, 2015

Keep in mind option 1 involves playing the bluebloods of college football and option 3 is playing P5, but likely playing the bottom 1/3 P5 or whoever you could get to agree to a H/H.

Some people (more than I expected) are voting they would rather keep playing the bluebloods even though it means always playing them on the road and having to play an FCS.