A question for long term fans

Got5onIt · November 17, 2015

Hair Roman played one season, 2007. Mendoza coached one season, 2007. OU happened the first game of 2007. Rice happened in 2008. I said the 2009 or 2010 team would've beaten this team by 2tds.
In 2015, we are averaging 15.8 points per game while giving up 43.4. Outscored by 27.6 points per game.
In 2010, we averaged 23.9 and gave up 29.7. Outscored by 5.8 points per game(with a 3rd or 4th string qb for 10 of the 12 games).
In 2009, we averaged 26.1 while giving up 35.6. Outscored by 9.5 points per game.
Since you brought up the two years that I didn't claim would beat this team, here are their stats as well.
In 2008, we averaged 20.0 points per game while giving up 47.6. Outscored by 27.6 points per game. Our worst season on record.
In 2007, we averaged 24.8 while giving up 45.1. Outscored by 20.3 in our only season with Mendoza at DC.

Now, let those statistics sink in, then tell me how the 2015 team could beat the 09 or 10 teams by a touchdown.

Nope, you'll never convince me Teflon Todd's team was better. Of course, I'm looking through some really hate filled glasses for Dodge. :D

Aquila_Viridis · November 17, 2015

Now is worse because it comes on top of the Dodge years. Now we've had many years of crap with no end in sight. The only thing that would raise spirits is hiring a currently very successful coach from a more prominent program, not an 'up and comer' with potential. That would cost a lot of money, but guess what, it costs a lot of money to have a great coaching staff that can compete in D1. Unfortunately instead of raising funds over the years from the masses, our lazy administration has worked on only a few people and that means limited possibilities. It is insane to be in such a large and wealthy metro and have no connection with the populace. Yet that is what we have endured, laziness and insanity. You would think this university was in a place like Ruston LA, but even teeny tiny LT is killing us. Apparently our people have no pride in what they do because they are abject failures at it.

UNT90 · November 17, 2015

No way. Dodge and Mendoza had players like Hair Roman on the team. OU and Rice bring back memories? 2015 beats those teams by a TD.

I see your OU and Rice and raise You Portland St. 66 UNT 7...

At home... On Homecoming...

Both the losses you mention were on the road against FBS competition.

No contest.

Cr1028 · November 17, 2015

I see your OU and Rice and raise You Portland St. 66 UNT 7...
At home... On Homecoming...
Both the losses you mention were on the road against FBS competition.
No contest.

Don't forget the $400k we paid either.

MeanGreenTexan · November 17, 2015

The Dodge years were bad, really bad,... but not this bad. We were a Sun Belt level program and as a fan base didn't have very high expectations. That just isn't the case now. The sad truth is more then a few current Sun Belt programs would clean our clock right now, and those programs spend much less money on athletics.
Even with the gains we have seen off the field during RV's time as AD (Apogee & C-USA), the decade of losing has taken its toll on many of us. With the facilities and conference we play in, we just shouldn't be this bad in all three major sports. None of the other recent additions are as bad in all three major sports. Many of us believe RV has made enough contributions to our athletics. Lets bring in new leadership and set a higher standard for success (winning, scheduling, & marketing). If the new leadership fixes those three issues, MGC and attendance numbers will naturally increase.

I agree with SSJ here. Back in the Dodge days, we knew we were small time because of the SBC and Fouts. We had Apogee and C-USA on the horizon to look forward to, so the pain was quelled somewhat by the hope we had.

After the move to Apogee and C-USA, expectations went up quite a bit. We blew the C-USA doors open in our inaugural season and won a bowl game down the road. We had made it! Nothing but blue skies ahead. McCarney had done exactly what he was brought in to do: turn our program around, just like he did with IASt.
What happened after January 1st, 2014 though... a demoralizing free-fall.

And, as has been pointed out, during the Dodge years, we were playing some pretty exciting basketball between the yearly football-crotch-kickings.

Dr. Seuss · November 17, 2015

We're talking about how great of a win from our WBB team... WBB.... No offense to the ladies, but this again is WBB....I'll go back and compare UNT to Plato's Allegory of the Cave, to the best of my ability. If you're not familiar with the story, go look it up.

"Good hires" are the shadows coming from behind the prisoners. All the prisoners have been told is that these hires from RV have been "good hires" because I'm chained down and I can only see what is in front of me.

In which they actually are not good hires. The group of 17 is standing on the boardwalk talking about how great of a hire RV's coaches have been. Every time they talk about theses "good hires" they keep on seeing the same "object" on the wall in front of them. The prisoners don't know that this object on the wall is an actual shadow. Every time the group of 17 talk about a "good hire" the prisoners keep on seeing this "object" on the wall because thats all they can see, and they refer that object to a "good hire"

Our minds have been programed to think RV has done a great job because thats all we've heard/seen. When one of us is released from the chains/cave we can see what is actually happening around us, "reality". The prisoners are programmed to think what they've been staring at is the actual object but in reality it's just a shadow. We go back and tell all of our friends about what is "reality." They laugh at us and think we're insane because that's not what they've been told/seen.

The answer is Yes, times are much worse

akriesman · November 17, 2015

Corky Nelson was my first introduction to NT football. This is the worst I have ever felt since those early days.

After the TD era, it felt like we had a decent roster and our players just needed a coach to take them over the hump. When TD was let go, you had the feeling that a good coach could turn things around after a year or two.

Now, we need not only a new coaching staff but also a pretty significant infusion of talent (especially at QB). And, the situation with our AD is stifling our program, whether your are pro or anti RV..

As others have mentioned, when the FB team has sucked in the past, we usually had men's or women's BB to carry us a bit.

We do have 2 things going for us right now: CUSA and our facilities. Those are pretty significant upgrades and should help land a decent coach, if we don't botch it.

Tyler Maryak · November 17, 2015

Several people have said it perfectly, but I'll reiterate the points relevant for me, a student from 2008-2012.

When I came in, the student perception was almost entirely apathy. Going to football games was something to do if you had no money and nowhere else to be. I was in numerous student organizations, so i was on the most extreme end of UNT fandom, which isn't saying much. For us, our hope was always "next season will be better." Going into my first year, everyone was saying that Riley Dodge was going to find his stride this season. The next season it was an easy schedule, if I remember correctly. Then Mac came in and the rest is history.

As has been said, once we got to 1-6 or whatever in football, we started planning for basketball. Soccer and volleyball also gave us an alternative outlet, but again, we were some of the more dedicated student fans.

This era is so much worse, for the reasons listed. My sister is now a junior at UNT and from speaking with her, I get the impression that students are a lot less apathetic. If you ever see the Twitter feuds between our students and A&M, TCU, SMU, etc. students, you will probably agree. There are innumerably fewer excuses as a CUSA school with a beautiful stadium and top-of-the-line budget. When you spend money like we do, it sets a large stage. Everyone was waiting for "the turnaround season" and thought 2013 was it. The further we get from it, the larger the frustration grows, especially with things like the now-infamous "accounting errors." People want something to point to that is a large and glaring positive, and we have nothing. I'm sad to say that soccer, golf, and a great music program are never going to gain UNT consistent national media coverage.

KingDL1 · November 17, 2015

This thread depresses me more!

This is the first time in 15 years as season ticket holder that I have really started to lose all hope as fan. I don't trust RV to do the right thing anymore nor do I want him involved in any decisions as an AD again. RV has lied or not carried through on so many promises it is sad he has a job. He helped us get to a quality level of facilities, but he is lacking everywhere else in his job. Not to beat a dead horse but this meaning RV as AD is a huge road block to me, I don't see any real progress in revenue sports until he is gone. I am nearing a point where I just don't care anymore. That is a place I never thought I would be and even despised in people around me that were alumni. They would say UNT will never take sport seriously enough to get to the next level and it seems they may be right.

Harry · November 17, 2015

Honestly this is probably as bad as it has ever been. I say that because I view 2011 (Apogee) as our restart button, in a way our real beginning of being serious about football.

Prior to 2011 we tinkered around with being serious about football but never really put significant resources behind it.

I started following things closely in 1994 when we had a good 1-AA team and made it to the NCAA playoffs. We had to hit a certain average attendance that season to qualify for I-A. You could sense the alumni, students and fans were starting to build around that goal.

In 1995 we started as a transitional I-A program and played a body bag schedule like you have never seen. We did have every game that season televised and so there was the initial "UTSA" startup excitement about that.

The Big West days under Simon and Dickey were a nightmare. We played late games out in western time zones. We had crappy facilities and no Texas teams to recruit to. We were way underfunded.

The Sun Belt was our best option after that and there was starting to be some serious movement towards legitimately being successful. I remember Gene Stallings coming and talking to a group of boosters about what needed to happen for us to be competitive at the I-A level. Our President at that Dr. Pohl said "athletics was the window to the university". I don't think anyone was extremely excited about the Sun Belt conference initially but it was certainly better than the Big West.

The 4-year bowl run during the Sun Belt years was great for the program. Getting to play in a bowl game really helped UNT athletics in terms of perception. The reality was though that while we excelled in the Belt, we struggled against teams outside of the Belt. So despite getting to our first bowl game in forever we were still a poorly funded program with one of the worst I-A stadiums in the country. in hindsight, some of the recruiting that we did in that era was amazing given the poor facilities and underpaid coaches. Things started to go south under Dickey and UNT hired Todd Dodge. Dodge brought a lot of excitement and for most was considered a great hire. He was honestly thought of as being Mack Brown's replacement by many, He brought in some good players but was a terrible game day coach. They were rough years but we also saw good offense and better media coverage. Dodge's first spring game broke a record for us, with like 6500 in attendance. So despite the losing there were some signs of hope because a new stadium was coming.

Fast forward to 2011 and everything seemed to be in place for us to really move forward. Apogee was built, and a seasoned coach McCarney was hired. We paid Mac and his assistants WAY more than we had ever paid a football staff. The University was growing in size and stature. In 2013 we joined C-USA. After 2013 and the bowl win, we as fans finally felt like "we made it". We had gotten over the hump and brighter days were ahead of us. Still there were signs that things were still amiss. Losing to start up UTSA at home robbed us of a conference championship game and a loss to Tulane on the road also hurt. We seemed to lose more recruiting battles than we won.

When things came crashing down in 2014 it was somewhat understandable after losing your starting QB and some good players. When it crashed this season, it became black and white.

So, even though there have been some dark dark days in the past, I would conclude that this season hurts the most of all. There are no more of the historical excuses (facilities, salaries etc). Mac was just a bad hire. A hire we paid a consultant $60K to help make. We did everything by the book and yet still came up short. You really could not second guess the handling of the McCarney hire as we had every expert in the country thinking he would do well.

I have stated, I truly believe if you want to HONESTLY evaluate our situation you have to start with 2011 as the first time we truly supported the program at a level financially to the point at which we should expect it to be successful. So yes, that hurts. It hurts a lot. We did our homework, ate a good breakfast and studied hard for the test yet still made an F.

Stan R · November 17, 2015

Why does it feel to me like Apogee in the hands of this athletic department is like handing over the keys to a Ferrari to a pre-teen. Holy cow they would have fun with it but they really don't know what they are doing and more likely than not to crash the thing into a curb or strip all the gears.

Game day just feels woefully mismanaged to me to the point of the folks running things just letting interns run things. Who's in charge? It really feels like pre-teens are running apogee and they are in way over their head. Why is that? We've had this facility for 5 years and I get the impression we've moved on to other things expecting that it "runs itself".

Well I've got news it doesn't run itself and we need a competent game day crew running things. This isn't minor leagues any more, facilities wise, we've got to step things up.

Harry · November 17, 2015

Why does it feel to me like Apogee in the hands of this athletic department is like handing over the keys to a Ferrari to a pre-teen. Holy cow they would have fun with it but they really don't know what they are doing and more likely than not to crash the thing into a curb or strip all the gears.
Game day just feels woefully mismanaged to me to the point of the folks running things just letting interns run things. Who's in charge? It really feels like pre-teens are running apogee and they are in way over their head. Why is that? We've had this facility for 5 years and I get the impression we've moved on to other things expecting that it "runs itself".
Well I've got news it doesn't run itself and we need a competent game day crew running things. This isn't minor leagues any more, facilities wise, we've got to step things up.

Like giving someone the keys to the GRX without giving them the formula.

golfingomez · November 17, 2015

Dodge's '09 or '10 teams would've beaten the current team by 2 touchdowns.

no way... i see the game playing something like this.

Dodge starts out with a good drive, throwing 14 consecutive wr bubble screens, gaining 4 yards per play and marching down the field, until they hit Mac's 30, then somehow manage to move backwards 15 yards through penalties and a sack. A terrible FG attempt ensues and Mac takes over, running up the gut on the first two plays for 3 yards, then somehow converting a miracle 3rd down attempt on a pass, before going three and out the next series when the third down pass is 8 yards off target. Luckily, Mac has the better special teams unit and is able to pin dodge back on his own 14.

The two teams repeat this process over the next three quarters, with Mac's yelling growing increasingly louder throughout the game, and with one of Dodge's players being carted off the field every 10th play.

Eventually, the game heads to overtime in a 7-7 tie, after Dodge's team has racked up 487 yards of meaningless offense and Mac's defense set up the only TD by recovering a fumble that a cornerback caused (Only after Cosh realized at the start of the 4th quarter that we should move our DB's up against an offense that never throws the ball further than 3 yards downfield).

At the start of overtime, Dodge's fourth string QB, Riley Dodge, has been forced to take over with only one good hand (he somehow injured his left hand getting some water from the Gatorade cooler) (It should be noted that we went with the fifth string QB, our backup safety, for 5 plays but he was knocked out of the game after tripping on the 48 yard line, the training staff is still unsure of what exactly happened. Riley took over after the staff decided his injury wasn't "that bad"). Riley scrambles around the backfield for a solid 12 seconds before throwing a pass that is batted around by two receivers and one DB, before Mac's squad secures it.

During Mac's possession, he decides to play for the FG and runs it three times up the middle, only to lose 4 yards. The FG attempt hits an upright and bounces off, no good, but during the play, Dodge's team was called for leaping, giving Mac's team a second shot at the FG, which Trevor Moore drills. sending all 52 people in attendance crazy.

Immediately after the game, Mac knocks one of Dodge's vertebrae out of place with one of his patented 'handshake/back slaps'. Unfortunately Dodge does not receive medical attention for a solid hour and 45 minutes due to ambulance's/training staff all dealing with other players.

Mac promises to buy the whole stadium some grey goose, but drinks it all before he can pass it around.

RV is seen jumping around in a suite, yelling, "I told you guys i made the right call with Mac!!!" as the chili and nacho cheese is drying on his shirt.

Cr1028 · November 17, 2015

no way... i see the game playing something like this.
Dodge starts out with a good drive, throwing 14 consecutive wr bubble screens, gaining 4 yards per play and marching down the field, until they hit Mac's 30, then somehow manage to move backwards 15 yards through penalties and a sack. A terrible FG attempt ensues and Mac takes over, running up the gut on the first two plays for 3 yards, then somehow converting a miracle 3rd down attempt on a pass, before going three and out the next series when the third down pass is 8 yards off target. Luckily, Mac has the better special teams unit and is able to pin dodge back on his own 14.
The two teams repeat this process over the next three quarters, with Mac's yelling growing increasingly louder throughout the game, and with one of Dodge's players being carted off the field every 10th play.
Eventually, the game heads to overtime in a 7-7 tie, after Dodge's team has racked up 487 yards of meaningless offense and Mac's defense set up the only TD by recovering a fumble that a cornerback caused (Only after Cosh realized at the start of the 4th quarter that we should move our DB's up against an offense that never throws the ball further than 3 yards downfield).
At the start of overtime, Dodge's fourth string QB, Riley Dodge, has been forced to take over with only one good hand (he somehow injured his left hand getting some water from the Gatorade cooler) (It should be noted that we went with the fifth string QB, our backup safety, for 5 plays but he was knocked out of the game after tripping on the 48 yard line, the training staff is still unsure of what exactly happened. Riley took over after the staff decided his injury wasn't "that bad"). Riley scrambles around the backfield for a solid 12 seconds before throwing a pass that is batted around by two receivers and one DB, before Mac's squad secures it.
During Mac's possession, he decides to play for the FG and runs it three times up the middle, only to lose 4 yards. The FG attempt hits an upright and bounces off, no good, but during the play, Dodge's team was called for leaping, giving Mac's team a second shot at the FG, which Trevor Moore drills. sending all 52 people in attendance crazy.
Immediately after the game, Mac knocks one of Dodge's vertebrae out of place with one of his patented 'handshake/back slaps'. Unfortunately Dodge does not receive medical attention for a solid hour and 45 minutes due to ambulance's/training staff all dealing with other players.
Mac promises to buy the whole stadium some grey goose, but drinks it all before he can pass it around.
RV is seen jumping around in a suite, yelling, "I told you guys i made the right call with Mac!!!" as the chili and nacho cheese is drying on his shirt.

I like your style but disagree.

Deloach would put 8 in the box because he knows none of the '15 team's quarterbacks can throw the ball. Cosh's soft, poor-tackling defense allows Riley and Dunbar to rack up Kenneth Dixon numbers. The 2010 defense was better than the 2015 offense and the 2010 offense was better than the 2015 defense. 2015 would lose whether it was Chico or Mac coaching the team to the Dodge or Canales coached 2010 team. No question.

HarringtonFishSmeller · November 17, 2015

This is easily worse because, at least in Dodge's case, we had two losing season in a row before he took over.

Yes, Dodge certainly - and RV, by extension - threw gas on the fire by bringing high school coaches along with him. RV later admitted that was an error. Dodge, while not saying so, didn't really have to because all high school coaches were replaced and crawled back down to the high school ranks one by one as the embarrassment grew.

Dodge also had Giovanni Vizza, who had scholarship offers to Nevada and Air Force. The Nevada head coach was then setting the college football world on notice with his "Pistol Formation" that is used by almost everyone today.

It is, of course, unlikely that Vizza would have beaten out Colin Kaepernick, who was a redshirt freshman in 2007, the year Vizza was a true freshman. But, it bears noting that he was a quarterback that Nevada's innovative coach thought could run The Pistol there.

The problems that make this juncture in time worse are clear:
(1) We are two years removed from a bowl season
(2) The coaches who led us so far down were not high school coaches, but veterans of the FBS/I-A college football world
(3) The quarterback situation is, by far, worse that it was even in 2005 and 2006. And, I'll go ahead and say, even worse than in 2010 when injuries had walk-on Chase Bain captaining the ship for a bit.

Back then, amateurs were in charge and, predictably, it went South. Now, we supposedly have professionals in charge, and we are further South than when Dodge's tenure ended.

In short, it's a complete f*cking disaster, okay?

jtm0097 · November 17, 2015

Dodge's team already ran through a Cosh defense. Anyone remember that Kansas State game? I know Canales was coaching but it was Dodge's team.

golfingomez · November 17, 2015

This is easily worse because, at least in Dodge's case, we had two losing season in a row before he took over.

ummm... what???

are you saying Mac walked into a better situation?

2005: 2-9 (Beat MTSU & FIU)

2006: 3-9 (Beat SMU, FIU & U-LaLa)

ENTER TODD DODGE

2007: 2-9 (Beat U-LaMon & WKU)

2008: 1-11 (Beat WKU)

2009: 2-10 (Beat Ball St. & WKU)

2010: 1-6 (Beat FAU)

ENTER MIKE CANALES

2010: 2-3 (Beat WKU & MTSU)

ENTER DAN MCCARNEY

I really think that we forget that in his entire tenure at UNT, Dodge, won SIX FREAKING GAMES!!! it was god awful to watch...

Mac had a really bad year here this year... Dodge had three of those in a row!!!

Hair Roman played one season, 2007. Mendoza coached one season, 2007. OU happened the first game of 2007. Rice happened in 2008. I said the 2009 or 2010 team would've beaten this team by 2tds.
In 2015, we are averaging 15.8 points per game while giving up 43.4. Outscored by 27.6 points per game.
In 2010, we averaged 23.9 and gave up 29.7. Outscored by 5.8 points per game(with a 3rd or 4th string qb for 10 of the 12 games).
In 2009, we averaged 26.1 while giving up 35.6. Outscored by 9.5 points per game.
Since you brought up the two years that I didn't claim would beat this team, here are their stats as well.
In 2008, we averaged 20.0 points per game while giving up 47.6. Outscored by 27.6 points per game. Our worst season on record.
In 2007, we averaged 24.8 while giving up 45.1. Outscored by 20.3 in our only season with Mendoza at DC.

Now, let those statistics sink in, then tell me how the 2015 team could beat the 09 or 10 teams by a touchdown.

so you are saying "Dodge's" best team could beat Mac's worst? probably

oldguystudent · November 17, 2015

Here's your roster.

For offense you get your pick of any and all players from:

San Francisco 49er from 1981, 1984, 1987. 1988, 1994

Dallas Cowboys from 1992, 1993, 1996

For defense, you get the 1985 Bears

Your kicker is Gary/Morten Anderson. You pick

Your punter is Ray Guy.

All players being in the prime of their career, perfectly healthy, free of off field issues.

Todd Dodge still finds a way to lose.

Joe Montana hands off to Emmitt Smith from the shot gun on 4th and inches and directs Smith to run out of bounds before the line of scrimmage. After the turnover on downs, Dodge calls his fourth timeout and sends out the kicking unit.

Richard Dent is issued shoes three sizes too small, Dodge puts Richard Perry at free safety, and forbids all defensive players from making tackles.

Anderson is directed to kick off aiming for the super pit, kicking the ball out of bounds...every time. He's forced to wear a blindfold and place a turbo fan on his foot every time he attempts a field goal.

Ray Guy continues to be Ray Guy and wins All-American honors because he gets so much damn on field presence.

greenminer · November 17, 2015

Dodge coaching issues: bringing his HS staff with him.

Also, I remember at one point the offense was so predictable we apparently had fans coming to this board, saying they could hear the opposing D (ULM?) actually calling out the exact play we were going to run before the snap. @FirefightnRick, I am not certain but I think you told that story.

HarringtonFishSmeller · November 17, 2015

ummm... what???
are you saying Mac walked into a better situation?

2005: 2-9 (Beat MTSU & FIU)
2006: 3-9 (Beat SMU, FIU & U-LaLa)
ENTER TODD DODGE
2007: 2-9 (Beat U-LaMon & WKU)
2008: 1-11 (Beat WKU)
2009: 2-10 (Beat Ball St. & WKU)
2010: 1-6 (Beat FAU)
ENTER MIKE CANALES
2010: 2-3 (Beat WKU & MTSU)
ENTER DAN MCCARNEY
I really think that we forget that in his entire tenure at UNT, Dodge, won SIX FREAKING GAMES!!! it was god awful to watch...
Mac had a really bad year here this year... Dodge had three of those in a row!!!
so you are saying "Dodge's" best team could beat Mac's worst? probably

No. He asked about this point in time. At this point in time, this squad is two years removed from a bowl game. When Dodge was hired, we were three years removed from a winning season.

It's obvious that McCarney's situation was a bit worse than the one Dodge took. However, McCarney, you must admit, had better facilities to work with, built up to a bowl season, then within two year's time, the program was in shambles again.

HoustonEagle · November 17, 2015

In a nutshell I think most of us have found our cap for losing seasons. I will also add that when NT loses we don't half ass the job. How many times have we found ourselves as arguably the worst football team in the nation. I am jealous of those programs that manage to play around .500 football year in and year out. That is sad. Strangely I am still here typing into this forum which means that while I feel gone I am truly not. There is just a dim shimmer of green light in my soul that has not been stomped out.

As a side note I would like to comment about the current discourse on this forum. So many of you have taken to attacking big time fans and supporters for their homerism. People like Kram, Flyonthewall and the group of 17(doubt there is that many now) should be applauded and thanked for their unwavering commitment. The original question for us long time fans was "is this the worst you have ever seen it". I can promise you that when it comes to fundraising it is nowhere near the worst. I am not sure how long that will last considering the dismal state of affairs. What I do know is that we need these men and women now more than ever. If we are to pull the nose up before we crash and burn they will be at the controls. You can demand the AD be fired (which I agree with) without making snide remarks towards people that are putting their time and money behind something we all believe in.

untjim1995 · November 17, 2015

Its definitely worse today. Apogee really looks like a gigantic waste of money to the 98% of the UNT Family that hates/doesn't care about football, not to mention that we play teams in this new stadium that our decrepit toilet bowl easily hosted with room to spare. We were told that a brand new stadium would change our lot in FBS life--it has done absolutely nothing to help us get any better than we were when we played at Fouts. CUSA was supposed to be our end-all-be-all conference to gain admittance into, because of all the regional foes that we have always wanted to get affiliated with in a conference. But we only get our chance because SMU leaves, along with UH, to the new AAC. That was tough, but hey, that's how it goes, because we still have Tulane...err...Tulsa...err..I mean we don't have to play in a conference with schools that sound small like Florida Atlantic...err...Middle Tennessee...err...Western Kentucky...oh, never mind. So, yeah, we got Rice, UTEP, UTSA, and La Tech, which is good, but many of us believed it would be Tulsa and Tulane with them in the West, while the CUSA East would be East Carolina, USM, Marshall, UAB, FIU, and Charlotte. Instead, we got SBC 2.0. People paid lots of dough on season tickets, MGC contributions, and even suites at the beautiful new stadium and they got rewarded with a conference slate of teams that are still fairly blah, but at least have some Texas connections (thank God!!) Then, we schedule OOC games after the initial season that are at best unmotivating to fans, unwatchable at worst. And when we finally have one good season in the last decade, our idiot AD extends that coach for 5 more years, not 2 or 3 that would have been reasonable at that time, especially when his offensive strategy not only does nothing to attract recruits with any talent, it doesn't get more butts in seats. Which led to the absolute hurricane of ineptness that washed over Apogee in October on Homecoming. That single loss cost us so much...a head coach that was bought out for $2.1 million, pride of the players who absolutely quit that day, people who made their way back for Homecoming for their one game a year that will probably not come back again anytime soon to watch a football game again, many donors and season ticket holders who basically said that the line in the sand has been crossed and we aren't going back until RV is gone, only to see the BOR, President, and UNT 17 ride to his rescue.

And losing basketball and Tony Benford haven't even been brought up once yet...even though they will most likely see him finally get fired for ineptitude at some point this year, too.

The thought of RV getting this turned around seems as believable as the Easter Bunny bringing you a basket full of eggs. But I cannot imagine how anyone can expect RV to hire the right guy for football--or basketball, for that matter.

The two main revenue sports have endured the two worst losses in our school's history with the two most recent RV hires--Benford's 2011-2012 team with all the talent to be included as a top mid-major to watch, loses to Division-II Alabama (Huntsville), and McCarney's Homecoming Massacre this year against FCS Portland State, 66-7. That's consistency, if nothing else, from your athletic department's money makers. And through it all, RV keeps his job.

#depressing

Got5onIt · November 17, 2015

GolfingGomez hit the target: Dodge's best team might beat Mac's worst.

I can dig it.

Army of Dad · November 17, 2015

In a nutshell I think most of us have found our cap for losing seasons. I will also add that when NT loses we don't half ass the job. How many times have we found ourselves as arguably the worst football team in the nation. I am jealous of those programs that manage to play around .500 football year in and year out. That is sad. Strangely I am still here typing into this forum which means that while I feel gone I am truly not. There is just a dim shimmer of green light in my soul that has not been stomped out.

As a side note I would like to comment about the current discourse on this forum. So many of you have taken to attacking big time fans and supporters for their homerism. People like Kram, Flyonthewall and the group of 17(doubt there is that many now) should be applauded and thanked for their unwavering commitment. The original question for us long time fans was "is this the worst you have ever seen it". I can promise you that when it comes to fundraising it is nowhere near the worst. I am not sure how long that will last considering the dismal state of affairs. What I do know is that we need these men and women now more than ever. If we are to pull the nose up before we crash and burn they will be at the controls. You can demand the AD be fired (which I agree with) without making snide remarks towards people that are putting their time and money behind something we all believe in.

You do realize the group you are talking about have given as good as they've gotten, right?

I've repeatedly said I think both sides need to tone down the rhetoric, but make no mistake it's both sides.

GRN-WHT · November 17, 2015

As a side note I would like to comment about the current discourse on this forum. So many of you have taken to attacking big time fans and supporters for their homerism. People like Kram, Flyonthewall and the group of 17(doubt there is that many now) should be applauded and thanked for their unwavering commitment. The original question for us long time fans was "is this the worst you have ever seen it". I can promise you that when it comes to fundraising it is nowhere near the worst. I am not sure how long that will last considering the dismal state of affairs. What I do know is that we need these men and women now more than ever. If we are to pull the nose up before we crash and burn they will be at the controls. You can demand the AD be fired (which I agree with) without making snide remarks towards people that are putting their time and money behind something we all believe in.

Goes both ways. Fly has called the other side idiots, piss-ants, non-factors and mother ffffers.