Question For @FlyOnTheWall Regarding Scheduling

[JesseMartin]

Boise didn't get to where they are/were by scheduling top 5 teams every year. Or by scheduling 2 in a single year. They scheduled winnable games at first, won them, built up the program to a point where they then could play those bigger opponents and win. 

Right...that was my whole point.  By low-end P5, I meant teams like I mentioned earlier - Kansas, Vandy, etc.  Teams in the big conferences that aren't competing for championships every year, be they conference or national.  Then play badasses either in bowls or AFTER you dominate the kiddie pool for a while.

[Mike Jackson]

Bodybag or paycheck games fund programs that don't have support from the town in which they are located, the bulk of alumni, and the student body. Denton and UNT fall squarely in this category. To schedule home and home you have to give the visitor a guarantee. When even a Portland State gets $600 K to play here it's obvious that proceeds from any game other than a lower tier mid major or FCS are all that is possible. The sheer size of Apogee and the stubborn refusal to play in a bigger metroplex venue make scheduling any remotely respectable P 5 impossible. It will only get worse as the P5 s start to understand that scheduling cupcakes will cost them any chance at the made for tv mythical four team " National Championship". To keep harping on scheduling a home and home against anyone other than a G5 is fruitless. Plus paying big guarantees will cost our non revenue sports dearly, as football Bodybag guarantees are the only reason that they can exist!!

This is just one of many reasons that RV has to go.  I don't mind playing Tennessee but you can have Portland State come in here when you don't get home and homes series with regional lower level P5 FBS programs like Kansas, Iowa State, Texas Tech, Colorado and Kansas State.   So let get real and let us get the excuses why we can't schedule each team case by case.

1. Texas Tech?

2. Houston?

3. Kansas State?

4. Colorado

5. Colorado State

6. Tulsa?

7. Kansas?

8. Memphis?

9. Louisville?

10. Vanderbilt?

11. Kentucky?

Those are a lot of options.  All teams that would generate interest here except maybe Tulsa.  Maybe 1 home game to 2 away game or 1 home game to 3 away game deals could get this done.  Because at the end of the day if RV get this next hire wrong don't be surprised if this is a FCS program come 2025.  I know I am walking away at the end of this season and as long as RV is here I don't see anything changing significant enough for me to come back.   Very few people care about this program because they have given us very few reasons to care over the last 12 years.

 

[eulessismore]

I have no problem with playing the big boys.  It's just that as many times as we've played them in recent years, I think that we should reasonably expect to be able to win, if just once in a blue moon.  I mean, I'd be ok with the HFC and the AD to say absolutely nothing about such an opponent in the week leading up to such a game, if at the end of the night, our guys were on their way home with a win under their belt.  There must be a way to do this; I doubt if scheduling two in one year, with one near the end of what anyone could see would be a brutal season, is the way to do it.  I do appreciate what Coach Canales said after the Tennessee game, that "Damarcus just has to get better", but hell, the entire athletic department, coaching staff, and team have to get better.

Houston has done it, Baylor has done it, TCU has done, Memphis has done it, Temple has done it; that is, come back from the football dead after consecutive bad HFC hires.  Damn it, let's do it.

[97and03]

So...

If we make a million, but then pay 400K to a FCS team, then we are netting 600K for the paycheck game. (roughly, depending on the circumstances each year).

I am hearing we have the money to step up and pay the next coach more than a million. Some have insisted that 1.5 million is a reachable figure. So Mac's salary minus that figure is about 750K. 

Why not eliminate the body bag game and continue to pay around 750-850k for the coach? Seems that the math work and you end up increasing revenue by always having 6 home games and one of those is an extra FBS home game instead of FCS, so more fans come out and spend money.

 

Is it really that simple?

[vpackrats]

Well, let's face it ... there's a lot of things wrong with the program right now but, to me, the "paycheck" game isn't one of them.  In fact, I hope we continue to play 1 "big boy" each & every year.  (Not 2 of them, I agree with that).  As NM Green said, this was just a great, great weekend of fun.  Meeting the Cool Beans owner in Knoxville (a big UNT alum), having drinks with other UNT fans, hiking in Great Smoky Mountains National Park for a few days before the game, etc.  That's good stuff.  And it's great to have that opportunity each year EX:  Experiencing the best tailgating ever while enjoying LSU hospitality, squeezing in golf on the Robert Trent Jones golf trail before seeing one of the meccas of college football in Alabama, etc, etc.  That's what makes it fun!  Once a year isn't going to kill anybody.  Several of our 8 person group to Tennessee is already talking about wanting to go to Gainesville in Florida next year -- and a few of them aren't even UNT graduates!  We have Florida, Iowa, Arkansas, Wisconsin & Texas A&M over the next 5 years (one each year).  That's good variety & it will be fun.  And just think what an opportunity it would be if we can beat one of them in those years!  :) 

[UNT90]

Well, let's face it ... there's a lot of things wrong with the program right now but, to me, the "paycheck" game isn't one of them.  In fact, I hope we continue to play 1 "big boy" each & every year.  (Not 2 of them, I agree with that).  As NM Green said, this was just a great, great weekend of fun.  Meeting the Cool Beans owner in Knoxville (a big UNT alum), having drinks with other UNT fans, hiking in Great Smoky Mountains National Park for a few days before the game, etc.  That's good stuff.  And it's great to have that opportunity each year EX:  Experiencing the best tailgating ever while enjoying LSU hospitality, squeezing in golf on the Robert Trent Jones golf trail before seeing one of the meccas of college football in Alabama, etc, etc.  That's what makes it fun!  Once a year isn't going to kill anybody.  Several of our 8 person group to Tennessee is already talking about wanting to go to Gainesville in Florida next year -- and a few of them aren't even UNT graduates!  We have Florida, Iowa, Arkansas, Wisconsin & Texas A&M over the next 5 years (one each year).  That's good variety & it will be fun.  And just think what an opportunity it would be if we can beat one of them in those years!  :) 

NM Green flies in for a couple of games a year, usually away games from what I read in his posts. Is he a season ticket holder? Are you? Look, I used to be where you guys are at. The only UNT games I went to were the games against big P5 names on the road. My fandom became more serious when I committed o season tickets and actually started going to Denton for games. I kinda got tired of seeing UNT get it's teeth kicked in every single game I attended.

Wouldn't you like, just once, to have the opportunity to play one of these teams in Apogee? See, because you talk about the opportunity to beat one of those teams, yet history shows us there is no chance of that ever happening on the road. Ever.

Its great that you can go and enjoy other things and have the game as a simple side distraction, just don't ever make the game anything other than that, because you will be disappointed.

[Silent Eagle]

NM Green flies in for a couple of games a year, usually away games from what I read in his posts. Is he a season ticket holder? Are you? Look, I used to be where you guys are at. The only UNT games I went to were the games against big P5 names on the road. My fandom became more serious when I committed o season tickets and actually started going to Denton for games. I kinda got tired of seeing UNT get it's teeth kicked in every single game I attended.

Wouldn't you like, just once, to have the opportunity to play one of these teams in Apogee? See, because you talk about the opportunity to beat one of those teams, yet history shows us there is no chance of that ever happening on the road. Ever.

Its great that you can go and enjoy other things and have the game as a simple side distraction, just don't ever make the game anything other than that, because you will be disappointed.

Isn't this what was supposed to happen once we got Apogee? Shouldn't we expect what was promised to us once we built Apogee? Villareal said it would be an attractive venue for big name schools to visit. Who is the big name? Houston? Hardly. Again, an inexcusable failure to meet the expectations. Can we start tracking the promises he made and seeing how close he is to actually meeting them similar to what we see in elected officials? I'll be willing to wager if we did that, we'd see a long list of broken promises.

[greenit]

Isn't this what was supposed to happen once we got Apogee? Shouldn't we expect what was promised to us once we built Apogee? Villareal said it would be an attractive venue for big name schools to visit. Who is the big name? Houston? Hardly. Again, an inexcusable failure to meet the expectations. Can we start tracking the promises he made and seeing how close he is to actually meeting them similar to what we see in elected officials? I'll be willing to wager if we did that, we'd see a long list of broken promises.

Again, I would suggest to look at the cause, not the symptom.  The symptom is that we are not getting teams from the P5 to play in Apogee.  I believe the cause is the fact we are still playing paycheck games.  If we played the paycheck game AND scheduled another P5 at the same time, that is probably not putting yourself in the best opportunity to have success.

Figure out a way to fund the program where the paycheck game is not necessary and a lot of the symptoms that get so many people riled up go away imo.  Once the program gets to that point, maybe we can make some real progress.

 

[Silent Eagle]

Again, I would suggest to look at the cause, not the symptom.  The symptom is that we are not getting teams from the P5 to play in Apogee.  I believe the cause is the fact we are still playing paycheck games.  If we played the paycheck game AND scheduled another P5 at the same time, that is probably not putting yourself in the best opportunity to have success.

Figure out a way to fund the program where the paycheck game is not necessary and a lot of the symptoms that get so many people riled up go away imo.  Once the program gets to that point, maybe we can make some real progress.

 

Get an AD that looks beyond the UNT wine and cheese club for donations and we'll be able to pay for everything. We've been over this, try to keep up.

[Ben Gooding]

Again, I would suggest to look at the cause, not the symptom.  The symptom is that we are not getting teams from the P5 to play in Apogee.  I believe the cause is the fact we are still playing paycheck games.  If we played the paycheck game AND scheduled another P5 at the same time, that is probably not putting yourself in the best opportunity to have success.

Figure out a way to fund the program where the paycheck game is not necessary and a lot of the symptoms that get so many people riled up go away imo.  Once the program gets to that point, maybe we can make some real progress.

 

Fundraising has been this AD's biggest downfall. What you are saying needs to happen will never happen with this current AD. 

[UNT90]

Again, I would suggest to look at the cause, not the symptom.  The symptom is that we are not getting teams from the P5 to play in Apogee.  I believe the cause is the fact we are still playing paycheck games.  If we played the paycheck game AND scheduled another P5 at the same time, that is probably not putting yourself in the best opportunity to have success.

Figure out a way to fund the program where the paycheck game is not necessary and a lot of the symptoms that get so many people riled up go away imo.  Once the program gets to that point, maybe we can make some real progress.

 

When your AD has said that he WANTS to play the paycheck game, nothing will ever change until that AD is gone. And the schedule for the next 5 years proves that.

We will never get rid of the whore game as long as RV is AD. 

[buff64]

@flyonthewall regarding future scheduling, has there been any discussion of eliminating paycheck games?  There could be a lot of goodwill created if we take a stand and announce that we will be eliminating future games that do not involve a return home game for UNT.  It seems to be that announcing the elimination of the paycheck game by the Athletic Department would rank right up there with allowing tailgating as a positive change that will affect the program.

If not, what is the argument to keep them?

There seem to be quite a few people that see the continuation of the paycheck game as being a large roadblock to building support (better chance of wins, improved home schedule, increased season ticket sales, MGC membership, public perception, etc...). 

Any thoughts?V

 

RV told us several years  ago that we would only play schools that would agree to home and home games. Also , said preparations for Christmas would not began until after Thanksgiving.

 

 

[Silent Eagle]

 

RV told us several years  ago that we would only play schools that would agree to home and home games. Also , said preparations for Christmas would not began until after Thanksgiving.

 

 

 

He's a fibber.

[UNT90]

He's a fibber.

I prefer the more accurate term of liar. 

[DallasGreen]

And personally, I don't mind having a good program every year to play.  I have no issue with one.  For instance, Memphis played Ole Miss.  I would prefer it be a school in Texas or nearby so our fans can make the trip.  There are plenty to fit the bill.  My issue is with two.  I also agree that it would be nice to get a bigger team to come to Apogee.  It's pretty much been Houston and that is it.  I hear that it is due to the size being an issue, but yet, SMU is able to get the A&M and Baylors to come to Ford.  Why not us?

Answer SMU has the $$$$$$$ to eat the loss on the guarantee they pay and UNT does not !

[GreenTexan13]

Since we aren't getting rid of the whore games? Can we at least limit the paycheck games to one a year? And I don't want to play an SEC team in the month of November ever again. Whether we played good on defense or not......

Thank you RV,

Sincerely,

GreenTexan13 (Josh)

[vpackrats]

NM Green flies in for a couple of games a year, usually away games from what I read in his posts. Is he a season ticket holder? Are you? Look, I used to be where you guys are at. The only UNT games I went to were the games against big P5 names on the road. My fandom became more serious when I committed o season tickets and actually started going to Denton for games. I kinda got tired of seeing UNT get it's teeth kicked in every single game I attended.

Wouldn't you like, just once, to have the opportunity to play one of these teams in Apogee? See, because you talk about the opportunity to beat one of those teams, yet history shows us there is no chance of that ever happening on the road. Ever.

Its great that you can go and enjoy other things and have the game as a simple side distraction, just don't ever make the game anything other than that, because you will be disappointed.

Not sure about NM Green but I've been a season ticket holder (was a season ticket holder) since 2003.  4 season tickets + MGC membership for 12 years.  Didn't renew this year because of the schedule.  Now before I get flamed by the board, just know that in this case it wasn't smart cash management for me to re-up in 2015 when I knew I was only going to be able to attend one home game for sure / maybe two.  Halloween night with kids is a killer / being a whore for TV Thursday night games was a killer for my work location / etc.  Anyway, we've beat a dead horse on the schedule & I think we all agree the home schedule was B A D this year.  I was fully planning on re-upping next year after a 1 year hiatus but I'm in wait & see mode now.  Like many of you, if I'm going to invest in 4 season tickets & a MGC membership, what is the AD doing to advance the program?  Also, I wonder how many of us are out there (not that many posts -- mainly a reader) who have invested years of watching games at Apogee & Fouts & are ready to apply their funds elsewhere?  I'm sure it's waaaay more than 17 -- if you catch my drift.  And, to bring it full circle since to me it's always important to bring it back to the original thread topic -- season tickets or not, my butt is still gonna be in the Swamp on 9/17 with hopefully as many of you guys as possible.

[UNT90]

Not sure about NM Green but I've been a season ticket holder (was a season ticket holder) since 2003.  4 season tickets + MGC membership for 12 years.  Didn't renew this year because of the schedule.  Now before I get flamed by the board, just know that in this case it wasn't smart cash management for me to re-up in 2015 when I knew I was only going to be able to attend one home game for sure / maybe two.  Halloween night with kids is a killer / being a whore for TV Thursday night games was a killer for my work location / etc.  Anyway, we've beat a dead horse on the schedule & I think we all agree the home schedule was B A D this year.  I was fully planning on re-upping next year after a 1 year hiatus but I'm in wait & see mode now.  Like many of you, if I'm going to invest in 4 season tickets & a MGC membership, what is the AD doing to advance the program?  Also, I wonder how many of us are out there (not that many posts -- mainly a reader) who have invested years of watching games at Apogee & Fouts & are ready to apply their funds elsewhere?  I'm sure it's waaaay more than 17 -- if you catch my drift.  And, to bring it full circle since to me it's always important to bring it back to the original thread topic -- season tickets or not, my butt is still gonna be in the Swamp on 9/17 with hopefully as many of you guys as possible.

If anyone flames you for not buying this year, they are just jealous because you had the foresight to avoid the mayhem. 

Edited November 16, 2015 by UNT90

[greenit]

For those that are responding with the fact they like playing big name programs, why do you assume that we can't play P5 teams unless we play them in the road?

Also, I realize that our current context is that we need the paycheck to fund the program.  This thread was supposed to be about asking someone from the inner circle if there has been any discussion about eliminating these types of paycheck games and instead only play H/H series. 

In other words, if money was not a constraint, would we choose to only play other teams that were willing to play H/H?

[UNTexas]

If the bodybag games aren't going anywhere because of revenue then the Athletic Department can do something with scheduling that would be equally or even more beneficial to the program, eliminate playing Lamar, Abilene Christian, Bethune Cookman, and Incarnate Word. It hurts recruiting, fans could care less, and we pay them. Get good teams to come here and fans will come, it increases revenue by butts in seats, you can bring in recruits to the game, and most importantly it's better for UNT. And for f$$$ sake schedule at least 6 home games.

Edited November 17, 2015 by UNTexas

[Silent Eagle]

WHOA! 6 home games? What sort of voodoo witchcraft are you peddling here, heretic? Obviously, Tulsa and Tulane leaving have crippled our schedule for the next decade plus, so we're hamstrung in our ability to really schedule the games that we want.

 

[Tyler Maryak]

I love the threads directed to someone in specific because they hardly ever get a comment from that person. lolz

[untjim1995]

If the bodybag games aren't going anywhere because of revenue then the Athletic Department can do something with scheduling that would be equally or even more beneficial to the program, eliminate playing Lamar, Abilene Christian, Bethune Cookman, and Incarnate Word. It hurts recruiting, fans could care less, and we pay them. Get good teams to come here and fans will come, it increases revenue by butts in seats, you can bring in recruits to the game, and most importantly it's better for UNT. And for f$$$ sake schedule at least 6 home games.

Having one Bodybag game to cover the non-revenue programs is pretty normal for most G5 programs, so it doesn't bother me to play a team like Iowa. What bothers me is when we play a team like Tennessee...or Florida...or Alabama...or Texas...or LSU...or Oklahoma...or Clemson...or Texas A&M...or Georgia. It infuriates me when we play one of those southern powerhouses in the same year we play another P5 program, too. I got that that had to happen when we played at decrepit, toilet-bowl Fouts. But, today, we have now had two seasons where we played two P5 OOC games (2012 and 2015) and gave our fans the reward of watching FCS teams like Texas Southern and Portland State. This year, in particular, would have been the perfect year to have a strong home opponent in OOC, since you played an "alternative home game" in Dallas at SMU. But nope, we are going to schedule a FCS team that nobody has heard of and won't bring 50 people to a game---and its the only OOC game at home. So when you add to that sheer idiocy by getting completely and utterly crushed by said FCS no-name by 59 points on your Homecoming weekend, it sort of tells most people that major changes need to be made--and the head football coach shouldn't be the top of the major change totem pole. At almost any other school in America, FBS or FCS, a loss like that PSU game would have seen the AD removed ASAP, maybe even the President of the university. That would have happened because those schools have chosen a revenue sport(s) as their primary window to the university. We just don't do it that way here.

To me, the ideal schedule is playing one bodybag opponent from OUTSIDE of the South. Iowa is fine--in typical UNT fashion, we schedule the right type of bodybag opponent in the year we are the worst we have been since we moved up to FBS in 1995 and Iowa is having their best year since Hayden Fry roamed the sidelines. But the point is that scheduling B1G teams, Pac-12 teams, northern ACC teams, and northern  Big XII teams gives you at least a chance of not having your fanbase just leave you to be t-shirts fans of OU, UT, A&M, etc...because you got pounded 85-0 in the first few weeks of the season. Plus, in most seasons, we might have a chance to actually compete with a northern school from the P5s. Then, play three OOC home-and-homes series with G5s--absolutely no more FCS teams. If it means 5 game seasons, then that's the price of being poor, but there is absolutely no gain for our program to host and pay a FCS team, especially now that one of those teams came in here and gave us the worst loss in modern college football history. Use that SMU game like we did this year, as an alternative home game, and match it up with another G5 program here, as well as another G5 program on the road. Play at bodybag, "at" SMU, at BYU, home to Army. Next year, at bodybag, home to SMU, home to BYU, at Army...again, that would require effort, which the BOR doesn't demand and the UNT 17 don't want to effect their relationship with their good ol' pal, RV...can't hurt their access to this awesome program, since it is EXACTLY the same as their Aggie and Longhorn buddies getting the same treatment with their respective ADs for millions more than you get here at little ol' UNT. Scoreboard, Texas Exes and A&M 12th Man members!!

As most of us that can breathe already know, nothing will change here for at least 5 years ahead with the schedule and your AD has been on record that he won't change his style of scheduling. He just has to pick up the phone for a regional P5 powerhouse and they schedule us on the spot--they get an easy opponent that people have heard of in this region, plus we give them the RV Discount compared to powerhouse programs like Arkansas State, ULM, ULL, and others...and then we turn around and give away half of the payout to host FCS spares that bring absolutely no one to Denton from their own school, as well as potential fans around here, both living near Denton and actually attending UNT. You get what you deserve and what you demand--and that is us right now,  in a perfect sadsack nutshell right now.

 

[greenit]

I love the threads directed to someone in specific because they hardly ever get a comment from that person. lolz

I wouldn't be so sure about that.  

[flyonthewall]

This thread seems to be degenerating into another RV bashing thread. That was not my intent.

I really was hoping to find out from Fly if there have been any real discussions internally about trying to eliminate the paycheck game. 

Essentially, is anyone pursuing a goal of eliminating these games?  It is understood that it will take additional funds to do so. 

Hopefully, once he has a chance to look into it he will share some info. 

what was the question? (Lol) I am out of town working for a couple of days.  I have an opinion.   Unfortunately, when your drunk on a plane, the only thing you have the energy to type on your phone while paying 25 bucks to surf the interweb to find out that the ladies beat Oklahoma is "buy your billboard mother fffrs "  when I get to a real keyboard I will answer. 

Edited November 18, 2015 by flyonthewall