Widespread Night Of Terror in Paris, France...Again

[FirefightnRick]

You don't see Christians all over America marching united against Westboro Baptist or Robert Tilton, because most people can gather on their own that people like that do not represent the religion.For some reason, that same logic flies out the window when talking about Islam.

 

Are you comparing 12 sign-holding nut jobs and a disgraced televangelist to world wide violent Jihad or am I misunderstanding here?

 

Rick

[HoustonEagle]

You don't see Christians all over America marching united against Westboro Baptist or Robert Tilton, because most people can gather on their own that people like that do not represent the religion.For some reason, that same logic flies out the window when talking about Islam.

How many thousands of people have Westboro and Robert Tilton killed?  How many have they beheaded? How many have they burned? That might possibly have been the worst possible comparison you could have made.  Wow

[FirefightnRick]

At Least 15 US ‘Citizen Terrorists’ Are Also Legal Immigrants

http://dailycaller.com/2015/11/18/at-least-15-us-citizen-terrorists-are-also-legal-immigrants/

 

 

Dozens of the U.S. citizens arrested in recent years on terror-related charges are immigrants admitted to the United States legally who later obtained citizenship.

More than 70 U.S. residents have been publicly arrested and charged with conspiring to help, attempting to help, or actually helping terror networks such as Islamic State in recent years. At least 15 of them received U.S. citizenship after being admitted to the country legally, including one of the Boston bombers. (RELATED: U.S. Refugee Chief Didn’t Know Boston Bombers Were Refugees)

 

Here are five examples.

Two immigrants from Pakistan who later applied for and received U.S. citizenship were convicted of plotting to detonate a bomb in New York City in 2012, and were sentenced to a combined 55 years in prison....

 

Federal prosecutors accused a Somalian immigrant who became a U.S. citizen of plotting to “go to a military base in Texas and kill three or four American soldiers execution style.” The man had trained with a terrorist group in Syria and was told to return to the U.S. and carry out an act of terror.

 

An immigrant brought by his family from Kuwait at a young age and later approved for U.S. citizenship killed four Marines in a shooting rampage at two military centers in Chattanooga, Tenn., in July.

 

A woman born in Saudi Arabia who obtained U.S. citizenship and taught pre-school in Queens, N.Y., was arrested on terror charges in April. She and a friend also living in Queens pledged allegiance to Islamic State and considered bombing a police funeral. FBI raids on their apartments turned up bomb-making materials, including propane tanks and a pressure cooker, in addition to bomb recipes and jihadi literature..........

 

The Obama administration has ignored a request from Republican Sens. Ted Cruz and Jeff Sessions  for detailed immigration histories of 72 U.S. residents arrested in the past year on terror-related charges

 

 

 

 

 

Rick

Edited November 19, 2015 by FirefightnRick

[Censored by Laurie]

I dont want or expect Syrians to do that.  The problem is radical Islam and they are all over the world.  Not just Syria.  Muslims should be uniting across the globe to oppose this small faction of their religion.  For the most part they are not.  

first of all...I just gave you instances of protest, both on the streets and, perhaps in our age more importantly, viral-ly...but here: I have neither the time nor interest to get you a comprehensive list, so here's what a quick google image search will net you. what's your bar? you do realize "muslim" isn't a homogenous, culturally-connected group, right? there is no Joe (Mo?) Islam, Leader of the 1.5 Billion Non-Dick Muslims. 

secondly...you're proving my point. what real motivation does the average Syrian, or Jordanian, or Iraqi, or Indonesian or whoever have to go protest in the streets?
Jordanian #1 - "we should go protest ISIS so the Americans don't think that we're all terrorists"
Jordanian #2 - "they already do, always have and despite dozens (hundreds? thousands?) of various anti-Isis protests they always will"
Jordanian #1 - "good point. you see how they won't even let in .1% of the displaced Syrians fleeing Isis b/c they think they will be Isis?"
Jordanian #2 - "ridiculous. they go shoot up a school or movie theater every week and yet we're the terrorists!"
Jordanian #1 - "speaking of movies...just saw SPECTRE...Allahu Akbar did it suck!"

[HoustonEagle]

first of all...I just gave you instances of protest, both on the streets and, perhaps in our age more importantly, viral-ly...but here: I have neither the time nor interest to get you a comprehensive list, so here's what a quick google image search will net you. what's your bar? you do realize "muslim" isn't a homogenous, culturally-connected group, right? there is no Joe (Mo?) Islam, Leader of the 1.5 Billion Non-Dick Muslims. 

secondly...you're proving my point. what real motivation does the average Syrian, or Jordanian, or Iraqi, or Indonesian or whoever have to go protest in the streets?
Jordanian #1 - "we should go protest ISIS so the Americans don't think that we're all terrorists"
Jordanian #2 - "they already do, always have and despite dozens (hundreds? thousands?) of various anti-Isis protests they always will"
Jordanian #1 - "good point. you see how they won't even let in .1% of the displaced Syrians fleeing Isis b/c they think they will be Isis?"
Jordanian #2 - "ridiculous. they go shoot up a school or movie theater every week and yet we're the terrorists!"
Jordanian #1 - "speaking of movies...just saw SPECTRE...Allahu Akbar did it suck!"

It has nothing to do with protesting so Americans will not think they are terrorists.  It has to do with Muslims uniting against a faction that is destroying their religion.  My guess is you understand my point quite well but you have chased this rabbit too far down the hole.  So good day and assalam o alaikum. 

[Censored by Laurie]

It has nothing to do with protesting so Americans will not think they are terrorists.  It has to do with Muslims uniting against a faction that is destroying their religion.  My guess is you understand my point quite well but you have chased this rabbit too far down the hole.  So good day and assalam o alaikum. 

oh...just unite the world's muslims.

like the way all Christian faiths came together during the 70s-90s to decry the loss of innocent lives during the Troubles? I remember all the stories of Russian Orthodox, Italian Catholics, Southern Baptists, Tennessee snake-handlers and Brigham Young himself coming together as one voice for peace.

oh...or did we look at that as far more complex? through geo-political and ethno-nationalistic lenses rather than just religious? and I wonder if those in and outside of Syria concern themselves more with how this war is effecting their homes and cities and nations, rather than the shadow it casts on their religion. because continuing to look at this current war as simply religious is not just wrong, but it also gives credence to the message and propaganda of ISIS that the west hates Islam and would look to destroy it.

expecting a diverse world religion to unify when political leadership and nations themselves are fractured is ridiculous.

[HoustonEagle]

oh...just unite the world's muslims.

like the way all Christian faiths came together during the 70s-90s to decry the loss of innocent lives during the Troubles? I remember all the stories of Russian Orthodox, Italian Catholics, Southern Baptists, Tennessee snake-handlers and Brigham Young himself coming together as one voice for peace.

oh...or did we look at that as far more complex? through geo-political and ethno-nationalistic lenses rather than just religious? and I wonder if those in and outside of Syria concern themselves more with how this war is effecting their homes and cities and nations, rather than the shadow it casts on their religion. because continuing to look at this current war as simply religious is not just wrong, but it also gives credence to the message and propaganda of ISIS that the west hates Islam and would look to destroy it.

expecting a diverse world religion to unify when political leadership and nations themselves are fractured is ridiculous.

cmon can't I get a wa alaikum salaam?  Rude. 

Muslims have a responsibility to lead this fight.  

I think we are all past the world is a complicated place speech. It goes without saying. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

 

Are you comparing 12 sign-holding nut jobs and a disgraced televangelist to world wide violent Jihad or am I misunderstanding here?

 

Rick

Seems you get it!  
You have dismissed all 3 as something that does not represent the whole.  That's my point.

Or

Does the 'violent Jihad' apply to all Muslims?  If so, I've somehow miraculously survived numerous encounters with 'violent Jihad' Muslims.

 

How many thousands of people have Westboro and Robert Tilton killed?  How many have they beheaded? How many have they burned? That might possibly have been the worst possible comparison you could have made.  Wow

The number of killings and brutality is not the comparison I'm trying to make.  Although Tilton has ruined many elderly people's lives by robbing them of their life-savings/retirement income, and Westboro has publicly spit on countless U.S. Soldiers' funerals.  So neither are very 'peaceful' either.

The point I'm trying to make is that many here (and virtually anyone who gets their news exclusively from Fox News or other far-right group think sources) seem to have it in their mind that (most, if not all) Muslims are extremist, violent Jihadis.  This is simply not true.  Just like Christians are not money-hungry predators or provocative, litigious d*ckheads. 

Also getting back on topic as to why we're not seeing huge gatherings of Muslims marching against ISIS... with the way ISIS works, any well-coordinated effort to get many Muslims together who would march AGAINST ISIS is going to be priority #1 for them to attack.  Because, to ISIS, anyone who professes to be Muslim, and opposes their way is worse than being a Christian/Jew/whatever...

 

[foutsrouts]

Build a U.N. militarized ISIS "no-go zone" in a Middle Eastern or North African country for the refugees, and negotiate a way to have that "temporary" refugee living zone broadly financed internationally. They can move right back home from there when/if the conflict is finally resolved.

Hell, Obuma already spent half a billion to train what is now a total of five Syrian fighters, so apparently money is no object to us at all. We're playing with fire with our so-called compassion. I would prefer the smell of napalm in the ISIS morning over the option of allowing any high risk individuals to enter the country legally in the name of compassion.

[Censored by Laurie]

Muslims have a responsibility to lead this fight.  

because...they caused this fight? 

 

Build a U.N. militarized ISIS "no-go zone" in a Middle Eastern or North African country for the refugees, and negotiate a way to have that "temporary" refugee living zone broadly financed internationally. They can move right back home from there when/if the conflict is finally resolved.

Hell, Obuma already spent half a billion to train what is now a total of five Syrian fighters, so apparently money is no object to us at all. We're playing with fire with our so-called compassion. I would prefer the smell of napalm in the ISIS morning over the option of allowing any high risk individuals to enter the country legally in the name of compassion.

so...you want to set up camps? 

and intern refugees? 

in high concentrations?

[MeanGreenTexan]

Build a U.N. militarized ISIS "no-go zone" in a Middle Eastern or North African country for the refugees, and negotiate a way to have that "temporary" refugee living zone broadly financed internationally. They can move right back home from there when/if the conflict is finally resolved.

Hell, Obuma already spent half a billion to train what is now a total of five Syrian fighters, so apparently money is no object to us at all. We're playing with fire with our so-called compassion. I would prefer the smell of napalm in the ISIS morning over the option of allowing any high risk individuals to enter the country legally in the name of compassion.

Because if we've learned anything about ISIS, it's that they will certainly obey a "no-go zone" with a highly-concentrated group of people who are fleeing from them (re: very easy target for mass-casualties) set up somewhere nearby.

[oldguystudent]

 

[meangreendork]

Because if we've learned anything about ISIS, it's that they will certainly obey a "no-go zone" with a highly-concentrated group of people who are fleeing from them (re: very easy target for mass-casualties) set up somewhere nearby.

Depending on location and western power forces in the area, I'd attack it. Hell, I'd see if I could score some air assets to fly over the no-go zone to wrap in with some ground vehicles for a massive assault. Post some other ground assets around it and its major centers so I could also mow them down as they ran. Then when I run my monthly Daesh propaganda rag, I'd talk about how stupid the coalition powers were for putting targets so close me and so close to each other. Then I'd yap about how this is what the western powers want - they wanna send people to camps in the desert to die.

Worse yet, people would totally believe that.

[foutsrouts]

because...they caused this fight? 

 

so...you want to set up camps? 

and intern refugees? 

in high concentrations?

So you would prefer that they either stay where they are in ISIS country, or that they move into your neighborhood next door. OK, I get it now.

Because if we've learned anything about ISIS, it's that they will certainly obey a "no-go zone" with a highly-concentrated group of people who are fleeing from them (re: very easy target for mass-casualties) set up somewhere nearby.

What I mean by "no-go zone", is that ISIS cannot go because the compounds are well protected militarily by UN troops. I'm thinking along the lines of temporary cities using Katrina-like mobile housing in safe areas near that part of the world. Sure it wouldn't be easy and simple, but it's not easy and simple (or cheap) settling destitute people in 1st world countries who just might be carrying terrorism with them. 

[Censored by Laurie]

So you would prefer that they either stay where they are in ISIS country, or that they move into your neighborhood next door. OK, I get it now.

YUP

and to think, they'll be less than an hour from one of the sites of a major terrorist attack. 

Sandy Hook. 

[risinggreen]

What I mean by "no-go zone", is that ISIS cannot go because the compounds are well protected militarily by UN troops. I'm thinking along the lines of temporary cities using Katrina-like mobile housing in safe areas near that part of the world. Sure it wouldn't be easy and simple, but it's not easy and simple (or cheap) settling destitute people in 1st world countries who just might be carrying terrorism with them. 

I guess they could setup temporary cities on a couple of the many Greek islands. Lord knows that Greece could use the rent payouts.

[FirefightnRick]

Seems you get it!  You have dismissed all 3 as something that does not represent the whole.

 

I would hope not.  

But I'm curious, if you had to guess a number off the top of your head,  how many Muslim Americans would you guess could stomach terrorism in order to defend Islam?

 

Rick

Edited November 20, 2015 by FirefightnRick

[Censored by Laurie]

US Holocaust Museum

"Acutely aware of the consequences to Jews who were unable to flee Nazism, the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum looks with concern upon the current refugee crisis. While recognizing that security concerns must be fully addressed, we should not turn our backs on the thousands of legitimate refugees."  

Francois Hollande

"30,000 refugees will be welcomed over the next two years. Our country has the duty to respect this commitment.

Barack Obama

The Islamic State "seeks to exploit the idea that there’s war between Islam and the West," Obama said, "and when you start seeing individuals in position of responsibility suggesting Christians are more worthy of protection than Muslims are in a war-torn land, that feeds the [Islamic State] narrative."

Disciples of Christ

We are appalled by the punitive and discriminatory rhetoric and actions by many political leaders to restrict and deny the admission of Syrian refugees because they are Syrian, or because they are Muslim. Such attitudes are contrary to our understanding of our nation’s values; and to our reading of our sacred scriptures. Such restrictions and limitations only make the displaced Syrian population doubly victimized: victims of the violence of war, and victims of the violence of hatred and bigotry.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Censored by Laurie

[FirefightnRick]

  

Francois Hollande

"30,000 refugees will be welcomed over the next two years. Our country has the duty to respect this commitment.

 

 

When was this quote, recently?  If so he's learned nothing has he?

 

Rick

[Censored by Laurie]

When was this quote, recently?  If so he's learned nothing has he?

 

Rick

If he didn't know before, apparently he's learned how not to let bigotry and fear dictate either his morality or policy. 

[FirefightnRick]

If he didn't know before, apparently he's learned how not to let bigotry and fear dictate either his morality or policy. 

Yup,..that was his policy when he got elected.  And now he has blood on his hands because of it.  A hard lesson to learn.  I wonder if he was feeling like a bigot and felt immoral last Saturday when after 120 of his countrymen were cut down he was forced to close the borders in an attempt to prevent more bloodshed? 

Rick   

[foutsrouts]

If he didn't know before, apparently he's learned how not to let bigotry and fear dictate either his morality or policy. 

If we want to avoid the appearance or reality of bigotry, why not also bring in the 100's of thousands of African refugees who are almost continuously the victims of sectarian violence and ethnic cleansing? Serious question, because I don't quite understand what makes Syrian Muslims so special in regard to refugee importation.

My apologies for jumping anyone's conversation, and now I'll hangup and go away. 

 

 

[FirefightnRick]

If we want to avoid the appearance or reality of bigotry, why not also bring in the 100's of thousands of African refugees who are almost continuously the victims of sectarian violence and ethnic cleansing? Serious question, because I don't quite understand what makes Syrian Muslims so special in regard to refugee importation.

My apologies for jumping anyone's conversation, and now I'll hangup and go away. 

 

 

Better question...

Why doesn't the Saudi Nations do it?  Afterall, seems to me a Muslim would more easily assimilate and thrive in a Muslim county than one that's supposedly so full of hate and bigotry like the U.S.?

 

Rick

Edited November 20, 2015 by FirefightnRick

[CMJ]

Better question...

Why doesn't the Saudi Nations do it?  Afterall, seems to me a Muslim would more easily assimilate and thrive in a Muslim county than one that's supposedly so full of hate and bigotry like the U.S.?

 

Rick

Saudia Arabia should take more, I agree.

 

I am in no way on board with shutting our borders down here, but Foutsrouts did bring up something I have thought about as well.  The Sudan still has tens of thousands of misplaced people all around Africa and we've taken in very very few the last fifteen years.  Even with the formation of South Sudan that was supposed to stop the civil war between north and south...now THEY are having their own civil war..  The plight of the Lost Boys has bothered me for some time - and I am not sure we should jump the Syrians over them.

[Coffee and TV]

How many of you wasted your Saturday yelling at innocent Americans because they call God by a different name?

 

http://www.fox4news.com/news/52977915-story