Widespread Night Of Terror in Paris, France...Again

[Censored by Laurie]

[MeanGreenTexan]

We cannot sit back and NOT help refugees out of fear.

Quoner is absolutely right.  What happens when hundreds of thousands of young people fleeing for their safety are pushed away from their asylum, and forced to go back?  You've basically bred new jihadists, because safety at home is with them.

People are doing insane things to escape the violence in their homes...  leading to heartbreaking images like this (don't scroll down if you dont want to see a picture of a dead toddler washed up on a beach):

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's absolutely our responsibility as the beacon for freedom and civility to work with other free/civil nations to help these people.  

[oldguystudent]

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Ironic in this being etched in stone on a gift to the US from France?

We've hated immigrants since the beginning of the nation.  We branded the Irish as a bunch of rampaging raping thieves, same for the Polish, the Italians.  The US government didn't much actively accept Jewish refugees from Europe until 1944, and only then grudgingly so.  Anti-semitism was rampant back then.

Well, maybe we could look to the west then.  Nope.  Chinese Exclusion Act, passed 1882, not repealed until 1943.  

Well, surely we could look south.  I give you the Zoot Suit riots of Los Angeles in 1943, and those weren't even immigrants.

Now we've got tens of millions of people fleeing the Middle East.  Of those tens of millions, yes, there are some very, very unsavory characters who wish to attack the very land that welcomes them in.  Media and interested parties play to this.  THERE ARE TERRORIST TRAINING CELLS IN MIDDLE AMERICA!  HIDE YOUR DAUGHTERS!

Fear sells copy.

As @MeanGreenTexan aptly states, do we then ignore THE PEOPLE?  Do we not accept some risk from a few for the good of the many?

Integration is the right thing to do in the long-run.  It's been beneficial for Jews, Catholics (see: political campaigns leading up to the 1960 election), Europeans, Asians, Latin Americans.  

History will look mockingly at the continued xenophobic scapegoating we in the west hold to so dearly.

[keith]

also...not that it will change the dialogue here...but the perpetrators have been identified as three french brothers, two belgian nationals, an egyptian and one syrian.

Come on man.  Are we going to call this home-grown terrorism or the work of a bunch of lone wolves next?  While they may have lived in France, they most assuredly were not French.

[Censored by Laurie]

Come on man.  Are we going to call this home-grown terrorism or the work of a bunch of lone wolves next?  While they may have lived in France, they most assuredly were not French.

no...it was a statement simply meant to provide context to those assigning full blame to the tragedy on the refugee crisis and in doing so attempting to justify their own xenophobia. 

[FirefightnRick]

 

Rick

[Army of Dad]

We cannot sit back and NOT help refugees out of fear.

Quoner is absolutely right.  What happens when hundreds of thousands of young people fleeing for their safety are pushed away from their asylum, and forced to go back?  You've basically bred new jihadists, because safety at home is with them.

People are doing insane things to escape the violence in their homes...  leading to heartbreaking images like this (don't scroll down if you dont want to see a picture of a dead toddler washed up on a beach):

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's absolutely our responsibility as the beacon for freedom and civility to work with other free/civil nations to help these people.  

While I feel bad for them, I do not want to see American kids murdered at their hands. Inviting these refugees in will only allow an easier path for Islamic radical terrorists to enter our country and murder our people. Bringing them here will not relieve their pain, just add to ours.

[FirefightnRick]

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/11/15/report-terrorist-was-rescued-from-refugee-boat/?utm_content=bufferdfbf4&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

 

One of the terrorists involved in the horrific attacks in Paris on Friday evening was reportedly rescued by Greek authorities from a refugee boat that sank off the coast of Greece last month.

The UK Mirror, citing Serbian and Greek media sources, says that 25-year-old Ahmed Almuhamed and another family member were rescued October 3. They were processed as refugees, but there had been no way to verify whether their identity documents were real. They were transferred to another vessel and continued their journey.

CNN reported Sunday morning on Fareed Zakaria: GPS that at least one, and as many as three, of the terrorists in the attacks reached Europe among the flood of Syrian “refugees.” CNN’s Clarissa Ward reported:

Update: Breitbart News has reportedthat at least two terrorists are now confirmed to have entered Europe as “refugees.”

Many of the “refugees” are economic migrants leaving their families behind in refugee camps in Turkey and elsewhere, and many are from countries other than Syria. The attacks killed at least 129 people, including at least one American, and wounded hundreds more in several simultaneous attacks in the French capital.

On Sunday, President Barack Obama reaffirmed his commitment to accept Syrian refugees into the U.S. Estimates of the number of refugees vary, but could well exceed 100,000 over two years.

 

Rick

Edited November 16, 2015 by FirefightnRick

[Quoner]

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/11/15/report-terrorist-was-rescued-from-refugee-boat/?utm_content=bufferdfbf4&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

 

 

Rick

We've said it about @Censored by Laurie and I'll say it again here...ALWAYS LET THEM DROWN.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Quoner

[MeanGreenTexan]

People need to put themselves in others' shoes more often.  

@Army of Dad, @FirefightnRick, you guys are solid.  I don't know what you do ArmyofDad, but Rick's a public servant.  Could you imagine if there were ever a time when you guys were so afraid for your (and your family's safety) that you did something so drastic and ill-advised as to pack up necessities & get on a dinghy boat and seek asylum somewhere only to be turned away because you're from America?  ...Because the populous of the country you're sailing to really only knows there are brutal street gangs in America and "we" don't want those here?
Just guessing, but neither of you are remotely involved in gang activity, and probably abhor it in every way.  Yet you would be turned away for the few who are.

Don't you think there are people like you in Syria?  Or is everyone over there a serial murderer?  Are those who are good people worth helping?  Or, nah?

[oldguystudent]

Greg Abbott says NO to Syrians.  Much cheering was to be had in Texas.

Meanwhile, bringing in thousands of Somalis and Burmese to work in Amarillo's meat processing plants is a-ok.  I know from personal experience that that one was started by Catholic Charities, so I guess if there's exploitative economic opportunity wrapped up in a neat convert them to Jesus bow, then it's super groovy.

Lots and lots of rhetoric going on about Islam being a religion of violence.

Here's the religion of peace.  

@MeanGreenTexan seems to be the only person around that didn't read a stutter in that particular verse.

[FirefightnRick]

I'm sure there are, and I feel for them.   But until we get a better vetting system that assures they will assimilate here to our way of life they need to go to Saudi Arabia where they are better suited to ride this thing out.

 

Rick

[Censored by Laurie]

I'm sure there are, and I feel for them.   But until we get a better vetting system that assures they will assimilate here to our way of life they need to go to Saudi Arabia where they are better suited to ride this thing out.

 

Rick

could you remind me...what is our way of life again? 

[Army of Dad]

People need to put themselves in others' shoes more often.  

@Army of Dad, @FirefightnRick, you guys are solid.  I don't know what you do ArmyofDad, but Rick's a public servant.  Could you imagine if there were ever a time when you guys were so afraid for your (and your family's safety) that you did something so drastic and ill-advised as to pack up necessities & get on a dinghy boat and seek asylum somewhere only to be turned away because you're from America?  ...Because the populous of the country you're sailing to really only knows there are brutal street gangs in America and "we" don't want those here?
Just guessing, but neither of you are remotely involved in gang activity, and probably abhor it in every way.  Yet you would be turned away for the few who are.

Don't you think there are people like you in Syria?  Or is everyone over there a serial murderer?  Are those who are good people worth helping?  Or, nah?

No, I'd stay and fight, as would my sons. 

I feel bad for them and no doubt many of them will be gracious guests and not cause problems like they have throughout Europe. There will undoubtably be some radicals/terrorists/bad guys mixed in addition to the usual assortment of criminals any population is apt to have.

I feel bad about a rabid dog, but I'm not going to allow it in my yard. Damn thing is sure to chaos havoc. I feel bad for these people, but they should not be brought here, it's a sure thing it won't be nothing but peaceful widows and orphans.

Let the Saudis take care of them. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

I'm sure there are, and I feel for them.   But until we get a better vetting system that assures they will assimilate here to our way of life they need to go to Saudi Arabia where they are better suited to ride this thing out.

 

Rick

The problem here is that with this kind of crisis, we don't really have time for this kind of system to be drawn up anymore.   I mean, we've seen the Syrian Civil war happening for 4 years now, so we've had a chance to get this plan in place.  This is a crisis, the need is dire now and we (along with the Saudis and other oil-rich Arab nations) have plenty of surplus to help.  Not saying the Saudis shouldn't take on a little more than the rest of the world (they probably should since they're so close), but that doesn't mean we should not be the part of the help these folks need.

 

No, I'd stay and fight, as would my sons. 

I feel bad for them and no doubt many of them will be gracious guests and not cause problems like they have throughout Europe. There will undoubtably be some radicals/terrorists/bad guys mixed in addition to the usual assortment of criminals any population is apt to have.

I feel bad about a rabid dog, but I'm not going to allow it in my yard. Damn thing is sure to chaos havoc. I feel bad for these people, but they should not be brought here, it's a sure thing it won't be nothing but peaceful widows and orphans.

Let the Saudis take care of them. 

"Army" of Dad...  I should have known.   Thank you for your service, and for being prepared to do so again.

You're probably right about radicals/terrorists mixed in.   What's great about the US is that we've really ratcheted-up the security and thankfully, there haven't been any big attacks on our soil (sans the home-grown ones) since 9/11.  And, although you're right that they would not ALL be peaceful widows and orphans, there would almost certainly be plenty of each mixed in.

Your rabid dog scenario is just 1 problem and it's easy to identify.
But, let's try this one:
If there were 2 or 3 rabid dogs chasing/mixed into a group of 500-or-so of your neighbors fleeing to your property, would you open the gate and allow them all in first before you kill the dogs?  Or would you lock up and say, "no, y'all can get eaten up... those dogs aren't coming in here", or "no, y'all should go to some other neighbor's house"?

[Army of Dad]

The problem here is that with this kind of crisis, we don't really have time for this kind of system to be drawn up anymore.   I mean, we've seen the Syrian Civil war happening for 4 years now, so we've had a chance to get this plan in place.  This is a crisis, the need is dire now and we (along with the Saudis and other oil-rich Arab nations) have plenty of surplus to help.  Not saying the Saudis shouldn't take on a little more than the rest of the world (they probably should since they're so close), but that doesn't mean we should not be the part of the help these folks need.

 

"Army" of Dad...  I should have known.   Thank you for your service, and for being prepared to do so again.

You're probably right about radicals/terrorists mixed in.   What's great about the US is that we've really ratcheted-up the security and thankfully, there haven't been any big attacks on our soil (sans the home-grown ones) since 9/11.  And, although you're right that they would not ALL be peaceful widows and orphans, there would almost certainly be plenty of each mixed in.

Your rabid dog scenario is just 1 problem and it's easy to identify.
But, let's try this one:
If there were 2 or 3 rabid dogs chasing/mixed into a group of 500-or-so of your neighbors fleeing to your property, would you open the gate and allow them all in first before you kill the dogs?  Or would you lock up and say, "no, y'all can get eaten up... those dogs aren't coming in here", or "no, y'all should go to some other neighbor's house"?

I think your analogy is (slightly flawed). More accurately put it would be 500 people from the Baltimore riot zone with multiple military age males, and some in face masks. They shouldn't even be shipped to my neighborhood, they should have be put in Fredrick, maybe Arlington. Also, it doesn't do any good to give the rabid dogs more victims, and in this case the additional victims would be their preferred targets.

First rule of first responders: don't add to the body count by making yourself a victim. 

[keith]

How about this....anyone who feels compelled to ease the refugee crisis signs up to be a sponsor.  You sign up and commit to house, clothe, feed, be legally and financially responsible and liable for, etc. x number of refugees in your house indefinitely or until they are able to return to their own country.   I'm sure there a millions of spare bedrooms in the U.S. that can be put to good use.  Those what want to help out, can.  

[DeepGreen]

I'm not sure how any of you can compare refugees/immigrants from Ireland, Italy, Greece, etc., etc., from the past, to immigrants from the Muslim countries we are talking about.  The dialogue in this thread is mind boggling.  Do some people simply look at them as being a new crop of Democratic voters?

[FirefightnRick]

could you remind me...what is our way of life again?

 

From freedom of religion to illegalizing forced teenage clitorectomies...and everything in between they would want to change here if given the chance.

 

Rick

[Censored by Laurie]

I'm not sure how any of you can compare refugees/immigrants from Ireland, Italy, Greece, etc., etc., from the past, to immigrants from the Muslim countries we are talking about.  The dialogue in this thread is mind boggling.  Do some people simply look at them as being a new crop of Democratic voters?

Italians founded Fascism and fought with the Nazis.

teenage clitorectomies

Rick

I can't decide if I'm gonna add this to my signature line or rename my punk band.

[Army of Dad]

Italians founded Fascism and fought with the Nazis.

The Italian immigrants did that?

[Censored by Laurie]

The Italian immigrants did that?

after '45? yes.

but if you want to talk about mass emigration in the 10s-20s, nah...that was a large influx of sicilians, forced out by the fascists who viewed the mafia as a political threat who came here settled in many communities that are still far from "integrated" and "religiously tolerant" and engaged in illegal and violent activity.

maybe if we'd turned away the Italian boats someone like Luigi Galleani and his Italian anarchist followers would never have been able to bomb Wall Street in 1920, killing 38.

[GM1998]

You realize the people who did this are the people the refugees are fleeing from, right?

but at least it took us less than a few hours to politicize it, so yay us? Maybe we can get a FB profile pic overlay celebrating that?

That may be the most naive comment in the history of the internet.

[mattmartin817]

could you remind me...what is our way of life again? 

[CaribbeanGreen]

That may be the most naive comment in the history of the internet.

Nah