Convention center approved with 5-2 vote

[Censored by Laurie]

Denton can't decide which way it wants to go. Frisco or Austin. This is a failed attempt to be Frisco.

ignoring the poor like-for-like comparisons here...this strikes me as more Denton's attempt to be Frisco AND Austin.

Denton, the city council and residents, have seemingly had the right vision of keeping large-scale corporate and chain interests to the outside (288 and 380) of it's more unique and appealing entities...campuses and square. Denton has grown and will continue to do so, so suburban sprawl is inevitable, but if you have the fore-sight to concentrate generic growth away from what made the town unique and appealing in the first place, you can still maintain the small town aesthetic while being open to growth...Denton, the town of Denton rather than Frisco, the suburb of Dallas. 

as for Rayzor Ranch...I don't know enough about it, so correct me if this assessment seems well-off, but either the city council views the convention center as the potential anchor of the "town center" to encourage further development...or it's simply plan b to an otherwise failed effort to develop said "town center" concept. 

  

[Withers940]

Stupid not to tie it into the college campus and Apogee. 

But stupid is what Denton does.

Hello Idiot!!

  Do you live in Denton? If you did, would you want your taxes to go towards that convention center? I would rather that money go towards something that's important to the City of Denton, that makes it stronger. Not waste its money on a convention center that would be a giant waste of Denton Tax payers money.

[Green P1]

This thread is full of lots of stupid. 

[UNT90]

Hello Idiot!!

  Do you live in Denton? If you did, would you want your taxes to go towards that convention center? I would rather that money go towards something that's important to the City of Denton, that makes it stronger. Not waste its money on a convention center that would be a giant waste of Denton Tax payers money.

Pot holes, I'm guessing?

This was a failure by both entities to get it done. 

[Withers940]

Pot holes, I'm guessing?

This was a failure by both entities to get it done. 

Do you live in Denton? If you did, would you want your tax money to go towards something that will remain empty the majority of the year?

 

Pot holes, streets, put the money towards our first responders (Police, Fire, Hospitals), Enhance our schools just to name a few

[Green P1]

I just don't understand why it wasn't built downtown. They have space. Developers aren't banging down the doors for that area, because it's nothing but hideous strip malls, empty fields, and CashAmericas.

This one is going to fail spectacularly. So we'll have a convention center and hotel in a barren part of town. But hey there's a new WalMart!

Maybe because no one is stupid enough to build a giant hotel in Denton that isn't visible from I35.....

 

Just a guess. 

Edited November 11, 2015 by Green P1

[MeanGreenTexan]

Rayzor Ranch just needs to hang on until the 35 expansion to them is complete.  And whenever Denton decides to pay to finish up University.  Then, the development around there will grow.  
Right now, there are two areas like this (big box stores & chain restaurants) in Denton: Rayzor Ranch and loop288/35E.  With the congestion of the latter, the demand for Rayzor Ranch is there.   There does not need to be any kind of development like this anywhere else in Denton, especially not near the square.

[ChristopherRyanWilkes]

Maybe because no one is stupid enough to build a giant hotel in Denton that isn't visible from I35.....

 

Just a guess. 

Yeah but what about that neon green run down pawn shop or whatever it is right down the street. That's the real selling point. I have good memories living in that area but it could probably use a good power washing. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

There was plenty of space down by James Wood and Unicorn Lake. Rayzor Ranch is already dead and they haven't even finished one building. Unicorn Lake is a failure, Stonehill was a failure, and so will this be. Unless it's high end, it's not going to work in Denton. Stores are already moving back to GT Mall. There is absolutely no reason for this development in an area with one really old neighborhood within a 3-mile radius.

Unicorn Lake is 1 exit away from the Loop.  If you're going to be in the area of Unicorn Lake (far South Denton), you may as well drive one more exit to where everything else is.  Rayzor Ranch is on the complete opposite side of Denton.  People living in the subdivisions north of University and West of Carroll are going to the stores at Rayzor Ranch instead of the Loop.  There is alot of land around there to continue growth, which will be facilitated upon completion of the 35 expansion, just like what happened with McKinney when 75 was expanded 2 decades ago.

[ChristopherRyanWilkes]

There was plenty of space down by James Wood and Unicorn Lake. Rayzor Ranch is already dead and they haven't even finished one building. Unicorn Lake is a failure, Stonehill was a failure, and so will this be. Unless it's high end, it's not going to work in Denton. Stores are already moving back to GT Mall. There is absolutely no reason for this development in an area with one really old neighborhood within a 3-mile radius.

When people say "Denton is grungy" chances are they mean the stretch of University from Bonnie Brae to Bell.

Help me out, what's the name of that strip club looking place with the palm trees out front. Rocky's? Awful. 

[Army of Dad]

They aren't even expanding that area. It stops right after the 35E/W interchange.

Yeah, Rocky's. Classy joint.

If by right after the split you mean 380, then yes. 

"The 35Express project extends approximately 30 miles, through eight cities and two counties, from US 380 in Denton County to I-635 in Dallas County. The Design-Build project is expected to relieve traffic congestion in one of the most heavily traveled corridors in the North Texas region."

http://www.35express.org/mobile/index.php 

[Green P1]

Ryan Munthe is to Denton talk what UNT90 is to... well... pretty much whatever UNT90 talks about. 

[Tyler Maryak]

So exactly what is Rayzor Ranch?  It looks like on the map is is the spot of land between Wal Mart on University and around where the hospital is? 

So if it is located there, my question is why would you put it on the Oklahoma side of 35E?  No one sees that side unless they are heading north. 

Having the convention center located on the Dallas side of I35 near the entrance to the campus made so much more sense.  We are trying to get rid of the Sack and Save and that notoriously ugly entrance issue. 

I just don't get Denton sometimes.  They seem pleased to have saved the money but at what cost?  Now you have a convention center and hotel that is hidden away from the most visible part of the city...  please convince me I am wrong about this. 

Exactly.  I look at that shopping center mess on the corner of 35 and 288 (north side) and wonder, "man, what did they think would happen when they put this here?"  

I see people saying that building Apogee before getting consecutive winning seasons was doing it backwards.  I'm not 100% sold on that belief, but this idea certainly seems to be the epitome of that argument.  We're banking on businesses coming to Denton when we have a nice convention center?  Outside of university-related events, why would the come here as opposed to Frisco/Plano/Dallas/Fort Worth/Addison/etc/etc/etc?  If it's on now, I guess I'll just wait and see how it plays out...

[MeanGreenTexan]

If you look at renders it drops to two right before 380, around the hospital and Scripture. How exactly is that going to ease congestion? It'll ease congestion for the loop, but not for them. They would have planned for future growth there if it seemed plausible.

http://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/dal/i35e/rfp/row_middle_segment/ih35e_north_row_sht4_20130806.pdf

This is a ROW map with existing lanes.  You may want to look at this:
http://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/dal/i35e/draft_interim_schematic/10_teasley_bonniebrae.pdf
For some reason, I cannot find the schematics for 380 to Bonnie Brae.   But you can clearly see in the map that there are 3 lanes in each direction going north on 35 after Bonnie Brae.

They aren't even expanding that area. It stops right after the 35E/W interchange. There are no stores over there, and there isn't really a demand for stores over there. You don't see Target or Best Buy banging down Rayzor Ranch's doors for spots, do you? I see a Wal-Mart adding a second location closer to campus (also the 288 one is homeless hangout), and a bunch of stores taking the cheapest rent for a location in Denton. Like Academy. If you live north of University, you take 288 for 10 minutes and go to the 288 stores, or go to the Walmart on University. Hell, 288 is faster to get to than Rayzor for a lot of them. It's a terrible spot with one neighborhood in the vicinity. If what you're saying is true, Rayzor Ranch would have more tenants than a discount grocery store after being spurned by Whole Foods, a mini-Cinemark, and a haircutting place.

Huh?   There are tons of stores/restaurants over there.

Why do you keep bringing up grocery stores?  The only grocery store off loop 288 is Kroger.  Why are grocery stores an indicator of anything?  And Best Buy?  Why would we need another Best Buy in Denton?  There's a demand for Rayzor Ranch, but there's not that kind of demand.

Also, have you been around loop288 during a weekend?  If so, you would understand why people would rather drive the same amount of time to Rayzor Ranch if they can get the same things done there.

[greenit]

ignoring the poor like-for-like comparisons here...this strikes me as more Denton's attempt to be Frisco AND Austin.

Denton, the city council and residents, have seemingly had the right vision of keeping large-scale corporate and chain interests to the outside (288 and 380) of it's more unique and appealing entities...campuses and square. Denton has grown and will continue to do so, so suburban sprawl is inevitable, but if you have the fore-sight to concentrate generic growth away from what made the town unique and appealing in the first place, you can still maintain the small town aesthetic while being open to growth...Denton, the town of Denton rather than Frisco, the suburb of Dallas

  

Denton, all business in the front and party in the back. 

Bully Ray Cyrus approves. 

[UNTexas]

The university should still look into putting a hotel on the hill without the city. The Radisson had an awesome location. They'd get my business and I bet a lot of parents too.

[untjim1995]

I haven't lived in Denton for 15 years. When I first graduated from UNT in December of 1995, my first job was at the DRC's business office. I worked there for 4.5 years and my view of Denton is no doubt out of date from where it is today. Back then, to find anyone civically interested in helping the city grow or to help UNT Athletics get support was extremely difficult. Today, it sounds like its different, but I don't know how much, especially when I hear about the Denia residents hatred of all things UNT sports or when I saw the vitriol spewed from UNT students and Denton residents after the stadium vote passed its almost stealth-like campaign.

Maybe a convention center/hotel will be a huge success in Denton, but its a different city for sure, with its liberal, hipster culture that stands out from the surrounding area. Usually, in the past, major endeavors like this didn't typically succeed, whether in the planning stages or after it was built, but maybe this time will be different...

[UNT90]

Ryan Munthe is to Denton talk what UNT90 is to... well... pretty much whatever UNT90 talks about. 

What if I start talking about you... <ninja face>

[MeanGreenTexan]

I haven't lived in Denton for 15 years. When I first graduated from UNT in December of 1995, my first job was at the DRC's business office. I worked there for 4.5 years and my view of Denton is no doubt out of date from where it is today. Back then, to find anyone civically interested in helping the city grow or to help UNT Athletics get support was extremely difficult. Today, it sounds like its different, but I don't know how much, especially when I hear about the Denia residents hatred of all things UNT sports or when I saw the vitriol spewed from UNT students and Denton residents after the stadium vote passed its almost stealth-like campaign.

Maybe a convention center/hotel will be a huge success in Denton, but its a different city for sure, with its liberal, hipster culture that stands out from the surrounding area. Usually, in the past, major endeavors like this didn't typically succeed, whether in the planning stages or after it was built, but maybe this time will be different...

Easy solution.   Outside, arrange the shrubbery to look like a full beard and paint giant Wayfarer frames around the top 1/4 of the tower. 
Inside, only offer water pulled from the Trinity and run through a handmade filtration system.   Then, for happy hour, offer a stout beer made via a homebrew kit.

The place will constantly be full.

[Stan R]

Easy solution.   Outside, arrange the shrubbery to look like a full beard and paint giant Wayfarer frames around the top 1/4 of the tower. Inside, only offer water pulled from the Trinity and run through a handmade filtration system.   Then, for happy hour, offer a stout beer made via a homebrew kit.

The place will constantly be full.

Brah I'm reaaaaallllly hoping those are non-GMO shrubs. 

[MeanGreenWithEnvy]

Rayzor Ranch will do better than most here think because of the next 10 years, not because of today. RR is right in the bullseye of where most of the residential development in and approximate to the current city limits will take place. RR isn't for people like me who live close by right now; it's for the thousands of likely future residents who will be settling in that area.

I would have preferred for the convention center to have been at Apogee because that would be a superior location for university-hosted conferences. I think it could have happened in its original incarnation if UNT's leadership had been a vocal proponent of it instead of going radio silent on the matter.

An area close to downtown, especially one close to the A-Train Station would have been amazing. The simple reality is that there's no single or adjacent parcels of land for sale in or near downtown to build a facility of this size. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

Brah I'm reaaaaallllly hoping those are non-GMO shrubs. 

Not only non-GMO, but sustained by rain cisterns and compost containing tenants' doo-doo.

Because there is nothing worthwhile over there, and the Town Center is being anchored by WinCo foods. It's already dead before it has begun.

Coulda fooled me, because everything currently there on the north side of 380 is packed on the weekends.  

The Town Center part... I dunno, it's not even built yet.

[Green P1]

What if I start talking about you... <ninja face>

?

[Texas Stranger]

Easy solution.   Outside, arrange the shrubbery to look like a full beard and paint giant Wayfarer frames around the top 1/4 of the tower. Inside, only offer water pulled from the Trinity and run through a handmade filtration system.   Then, for happy hour, offer a stout beer made via a homebrew kit.

The place will constantly be full.

The grass, pavement and masonry had better be Gluten-Free

[Aldo]

Disappointing it isn't going near the square. It's where it makes the most sense. Between Bell and Oakland, McKinney and Oak (across the street from OSDH). 

As far as the north Rayzor Ranch area goes, it's a hopping place. Always full of people as there is food, grocery stores, and shopping (Academy, guitar center, Ross, kohls, a pet store, yadda yadda). 

Also there is a ton of population bounded between 35 and Carroll, and 380 and hickory that use this shopping. Oh yeah Robson Ranch folks. Lot of homes are going in west of 35 and south of the loop. By 2025, they're expecting to expand the north part of 288 farther west. So there's demand. 

On the south Rayzor Ranch side they've parceled out chunks of land for the town homes, there will be a Cook's children, a theatre and whatever department store pulls out next. 

Every once in a while they move some dirt around, so progress? 

Maybe they're just putting off building the convention center, with the excuse that Rayzor Ranch isn't get built on the south side. 

MAYBE it's a diabolical plan by Golden Triangle Mall to keep themselves afloat. 

Genius...