Convention center approved with 5-2 vote

Skipper · November 11, 2015

Call it Convention Center 2.0.

The Denton City Council approved Tuesday night a maximum 25-year, $54 million incentive package for a new convention center. The deal brings the center along with a full-service hotel and restaurant to the Rayzor Ranch Town Center development, likely by 2018.

In many ways, the project resembles a deal the city abandoned last year. O’Reilly Hospitality Management and its investment partners plan a 300-room Embassy Suites hotel, a Houlihan’s restaurant and a 70,000-square-foot convention center.

But in other key ways, Tuesday’s deal was different. This time, taxpayers won’t own the convention center or pay for its construction with bond money.

Those differences were enough to win over Mayor Chris Watts, who led the charge against the original deal in 2014. Council members Kevin Roden, Joey Hawkins, Dalton Gregory and Greg Johnson also said they were happy to support the new package, which rebates tax money to a fully private venture based on its economic performance.

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UNT90 · November 11, 2015

Stupid not to tie it into the college campus and Apogee.

But stupid is what Denton does.

UNTFan23 · November 11, 2015

Given that the City of Denton has no skin in the game, they'll have little to no say in how the facility is utilized. I hope they have to pay full price to rent it out just like everyone else.

Cerebus · November 11, 2015

Link to the full article: Here.

On one hand it's a plus for the University to have a convention space in Denton. UNT currently hosts dozens of conventions every year that would use that space, as of now it goes mostly to Dallas.

It's unfortunate it couldn't partner with the university in some fashion, especially to bring the hospitality school.

cdizzle86 · November 11, 2015

It makes no sense not to connect this to the university/Apogee, but in true Denton fashion, they don't want to show any type of support for the University.

Censored by Laurie · November 11, 2015

Stupid not to tie it into the college campus and Apogee.
But stupid is what Denton does.

we've got to be the only school in the state without a town's convention center on campus, right?

UNT90 · November 11, 2015

we've got to be the only school in the state without a town's convention center on campus, right?

We had the opportunity to be one of the few that one on campus.

But why would we want to be a leader, right?

I mean, why would we ever want to be like these guys when we can hippie it up, right?:

http://www.meetattexas.com

Edited November 11, 2015 by UNT90

Censored by Laurie · November 11, 2015

We had the opportunity to be one of the few that one on campus.
But why would we want to be a leader, right?
I mean, why would we ever want to be like these guys when we can hippie it up, right?:
http://www.meetattexas.com

that looks great, but that's not the Austin Convention Center. the Austin Convention Center is down on Cesar Chavez a good 50 blocks from campus. you linked to something, I assume, the University of Texas or some of it's donors paid for.

in our case, the school basically attempted to get the city to underwrite the costs for a new on-campus building. not taking the first deal presented to you isn't "stupid"...it's shrewd and pretty well in keeping with the total vision that Denton leadership have displayed over the past decade.

the failings here seem to be much more on UNT than on Denton. and personally, I think UNT can do a whole hell of a lot better than a convention center as the gateway to apogee.

Stan R · November 11, 2015

personally, I think UNT can do a whole hell of a lot better than a convention center as the gateway to apogee.

I'm not sure I agree with your opinion, I need more information. What do you feel would be a better than a convention center as the gateway to apogee?

Serious question.

Stan R · November 11, 2015

One that is paid for by the university and not people in Denton with no connection to the school.

I guess I mean what other type of facility, is CBL proposing a massive Chuck-e-cheese? Dave n busters? Mental Institution? I need to know what would be a better fit for being attached to Apogee than a convention center/hotel.

Censored by Laurie · November 11, 2015

I'm not sure I agree with your opinion, I need more information. What do you feel would be a better than a convention center as the gateway to apogee?
Serious question.

appealing green space (as opposed to just undeveloped green-ish space) ?

hotel?

baseball stadium?

eventually, a new basketball arena and re-purposing the super pit as a convention-ish center?

Stan R · November 11, 2015

appealing green space (as opposed to just undeveloped green-ish space) ?
hotel?
baseball stadium?
eventually, a new basketball arena and re-purposing the super pit as a convention-ish center?

I think I'm going to need fully rendered 3D versions of each proposal before I make my final decision.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Stan R

oldguystudent · November 11, 2015

appealing green space (as opposed to just undeveloped green-ish space) ?

Too hippie. Needs more fracking

hotel?

What, encourage people to engage in sinful acts in university sanctioned dens of iniquity? You don't remember the fate of the Ramada, do you?

baseball stadium?

That'll never happen while RV's here. Of course, it'll never happen if he's not here, either. Make up your mind!

eventually, a new basketball arena and re-purposing the super pit as a convention-ish center?

My favorite option. I'd like to see slip 'n slides going down the sloped concrete where the randomly sized seating once stood.

Censored by Laurie · November 11, 2015

I think I'm going to need fully rendered 3D versions of each proposal before I make my final decision.

amazing-natural-beauty-of-nature-galerie

west-chester-pa-stadium-rendering_zpsbhh

2013-05-03-Warriors-Boards-10_zpsckflm73

happy?

Stan R · November 11, 2015

Well I'll have to give you extra credit for the seagulls flying in formation and the skinny-dipping snorkelers. Nice touch.

Censored by Laurie · November 11, 2015

Well I'll have to give you extra credit for the seagulls flying in formation and the skinny-dipping snorkelers. Nice touch.

what about including the pedestrian bridge in the background of the new basketball arena?

Stan R · November 11, 2015

what about including the pedestrian bridge in the background of the new basketball arena?

That's going to require approval from the UNT17^tm

Edited November 11, 2015 by Stan R

greenit · November 11, 2015

I'm not sure I agree with your opinion, I need more information. What do you feel would be a better than a convention center as the gateway to apogee?
Serious question.

Some sort of sign making business?

Edited November 11, 2015 by greenit

MeanGreenTexan · November 11, 2015

I guess I mean what other type of facility, is CBL proposing a massive Chuck-e-cheese? Dave n busters? Mental Institution? I need to know what would be a better fit for being attached to Apogee than a convention center/hotel.

A new Sack-N-Save.

Harry · November 11, 2015

So exactly what is Rayzor Ranch? It looks like on the map is is the spot of land between Wal Mart on University and around where the hospital is?

So if it is located there, my question is why would you put it on the Oklahoma side of 35E? No one sees that side unless they are heading north.

Having the convention center located on the Dallas side of I35 near the entrance to the campus made so much more sense. We are trying to get rid of the Sack and Save and that notoriously ugly entrance issue.

I just don't get Denton sometimes. They seem pleased to have saved the money but at what cost? Now you have a convention center and hotel that is hidden away from the most visible part of the city... please convince me I am wrong about this.

Ryan Munthe · November 11, 2015

So exactly what is Rayzor Ranch? It looks like on the map is is the spot of land between Wal Mart on University and around where the hospital is?
So if it is located there, my question is why would you put it on the Oklahoma side of 35E? No one sees that side unless they are heading north.
Having the convention center located on the Dallas side of I35 near the entrance to the campus made so much more sense. We are trying to get rid of the Sack and Save and that notoriously ugly entrance issue.
I just don't get Denton sometimes. They seem pleased to have saved the money but at what cost? Now you have a convention center and hotel that is hidden away from the most visible part of the city... please convince me I am wrong about this.

Rayzor Ranch is Denton's soon-to-be-failed attempt to make a Southlake Town Square kinda thing. Problem is, there is no development over there and no big chains are interested. They rolled out plans by bragging about a WinCo Foods and a Great Clips, saying it would take approximately 20 years to complete. Reportedly an HEB is going there instead. Has Stonehill v2 written all over it. Denton turned it down originally because UNT wanted the taxpayers to fund a UNT convention center. Clearly not going to happen.

Denton can't decide which way it wants to go. Frisco or Austin. This is a failed attempt to be Frisco.

Bigger problem is the insulated cult of "don't talk bad about city council or we will rip you to shreds on the tweets" when you criticize things like this passing, or the city council backing the fracking ban until the idiots in Austin backed up their threats (they knew it would happen, still led everyone on). Now they want to build some event center to pull the festivals off the Square. It's whatever.

Creeping suburbanization is going to hit Denton, and the city council is just gonna let for the sake of "development".

Edited November 11, 2015 by Ryan Munthe

ChristopherRyanWilkes · November 11, 2015

So exactly what is Rayzor Ranch? It looks like on the map is is the spot of land between Wal Mart on University and around where the hospital is?
So if it is located there, my question is why would you put it on the Oklahoma side of 35E? No one sees that side unless they are heading north.
Having the convention center located on the Dallas side of I35 near the entrance to the campus made so much more sense. We are trying to get rid of the Sack and Save and that notoriously ugly entrance issue.
I just don't get Denton sometimes. They seem pleased to have saved the money but at what cost? Now you have a convention center and hotel that is hidden away from the most visible part of the city... please convince me I am wrong about this.

Yes, close to where I used to live. As of right now there's a strip mall with the Wal-Mart, some food options, and some other generic stores. I know there is a large field adjacent to the Albertson's that I thought was bought to build a residential development but never saw much movement on that front. Last I checked there were plans to build an In-N-Out and expand the strip center next to Albertson's, but I assume the Convention center is going in that large empty field. I lived close and yes it's not the most appealing area aesthetically.

ChristopherRyanWilkes · November 11, 2015

Yeah, the In and Out plans are still on, if the big "town center" ever gets built

Planned town centers usually don't end well.

ChristopherRyanWilkes · November 11, 2015

I just don't understand why it wasn't built downtown. They have space. Developers aren't banging down the doors for that area, because it's nothing but hideous strip malls, empty fields, and CashAmericas.
This one is going to fail spectacularly. So we'll have a convention center and hotel in a barren part of town. But hey there's a new WalMart!

I'm guessing the real estate was more expensive? I have no idea, it's not like they are building it in downtown Dallas or something. It couldn't have been that big of a difference price-wise. Doesn't make sense, maybe the owners near downtown weren't willing to sell and the land owners of that Rayznor Ranch area was just trying to get rid of that land because the housing development fell through.

rcade · November 11, 2015

A new Sack-N-Save.

I don't think a Sack-N-Save is ever new. On opening day the store already has scuffed-up floors and bathrooms so filthy a meth head would refuse to cook there.