Skip Holtz example

Harry · November 10, 2015

Some of Chico's comments on recruiting got me to thinking. You know Chico knows what we were doing wrong in the last 5-6 years and you know he wishes he had another chance to correct those mistakes.

Holtz was fired at South Florida I believe and reincarnated himself at La. Tech. I wonder if this is not the best type of guy for our job. A guy who had done it at a p5 (East Carolina) but somehow got off track at USF but the KEY thing is he learned from the experience. You know he came to Tech with a clear plan he knew the mistakes made at USF and corrected them. I remember thinking when they hired him that they were taking a risk. Now, when I consider someone young like Spavital coming from a place with all the resources like A&M I see that type of hire as more of a risk.

I think we need to consider more Holtz type of hires as we look at candidates. In my experience, failure in itself is not necessarily a bad thing if you learn from it.

untjim1995 · November 10, 2015

And to piggyback on this, Skip Holtz had solid success at East Carolina before he went to South Florida when they were a power league team in the old Big East.

If it weren't for Steve Kragthorpe's health issues, he would be a perfect candidate. Won big time at Tulsa, but couldn't hack it at Louisville when they were a Big East program.

That kind of candidate would be awesome. Of course, to RV, that would mean Jeff Bower from Southern Miss.

Aldo · November 10, 2015

I think we need to consider more Holtz type of hires as we look at candidates.

But who would that be? (not a rhetorical question, actually asking who fits that description).

Mean_Green09 · November 10, 2015

Some of Chico's comments on recruiting got me to thinking. You know Chico knows what we were doing wrong in the last 5-6 years and you know he wishes he had another chance to correct those mistakes.
Holtz was fired at South Florida I believe and reincarnated himself at La. Tech. I wonder if this is not the best type of guy for our job. A guy who had done it at a p5 (East Carolina) but somehow got off track at USF but the KEY thing is he learned from the experience. You know he came to Tech with a clear plan he knew the mistakes made at USF and corrected them. I remember thinking when they hired him that they were taking a risk. Now, when I consider someone young like Spavital coming from a place with all the resources like A&M I see that type of hire as more of a risk.
I think we need to consider more Holtz type of hires as we look at candidates. In my experience, failure in itself is not necessarily a bad thing if you learn from it.

Along those lines if guys like Holgorson, Richt, Rich Rod, Sumlin got let go Id be willing to take a look.

edcollopy · November 10, 2015

spavital will be known as the guy that underperformed at A&M...not sure that will help him sell himself to recruits at UNT.

casual fan · November 10, 2015

I would like to see UNT hire a guy who has won everywhere he's been.

One who has a consistent track record as HC of winning regardless of the locale, the level, or the resources.

Dino Babers 34-15 0 losing seasons

Everett Withers 23-12 0 losing seasons

Willie Fritz 152-67 2 losing seasons (both 5-6 and both a number of years back)

Chris Tomsen 52-21 2 losing seasons (4-6 his 1st season & 10-3 his 3rd season but the NCAA vacated 10 wins)

meangreenbob · November 10, 2015

Some of Chico's comments on recruiting got me to thinking. You know Chico knows what we were doing wrong in the last 5-6 years and you know he wishes he had another chance to correct those mistakes.
Holtz was fired at South Florida I believe and reincarnated himself at La. Tech. I wonder if this is not the best type of guy for our job. A guy who had done it at a p5 (East Carolina) but somehow got off track at USF but the KEY thing is he learned from the experience. You know he came to Tech with a clear plan he knew the mistakes made at USF and corrected them. I remember thinking when they hired him that they were taking a risk. Now, when I consider someone young like Spavital coming from a place with all the resources like A&M I see that type of hire as more of a risk.
I think we need to consider more Holtz type of hires as we look at candidates. In my experience, failure in itself is not necessarily a bad thing if you learn from it.

Remember when Chico took over for Dodge he took over a team that was decimated by injuries. In fact, remember how we were all wondering what the heck was going on? It was so bad that many were even wondering if we were wearing the wrong shoes. But he took the remnants and went 2-3. We also almost beat Ark St and K-State. Then enter Mac. The first thing he did was publicly bad mouth the speed, size and athleticism of Dodge's recruits. It took Mac 3 years to do anything with that talent. I bet Chico would have won with them out of the shoot and that would have led to some very good recruiting seasons as well. Look maybe Chico isn't the guy but I would sure ask him what he could and would do differently from Dodge and Mac and why he thinks he could win here.

Edited November 10, 2015 by meangreenbob

TIgreen01 · November 10, 2015

What the heck are you getting at Harry? Have we missed out on Riley and Norvell? As long as either of those guys are still available and interested, they are my top 2.

Harry · November 10, 2015

What the heck are you getting at Harry? Have we missed out on Riley and Norvell? As long as either of those guys are still available and interested, they are my top 2.

I'm just saying I wouldn't rule out a guy who is fired or dismissed at another job. La. Tech didn't let the fact that Skip Holtz was fired at USF keep them from hiring him at La. Tech and it has paid off in Spades.

Mean_Green09 · November 10, 2015

I'm just saying I wouldn't rule out a guy who is fired or dismissed at another job. La. Tech didn't let the fact that Skip Holtz was fired at USF keep them from hiring him at La. Tech and it has paid off in Spades.

One thing that may deter us is how much we are willing to pay. Would you be willing to pay a Skip Holtz guy $900K. I know I most certainly would not. Would I pay a guy like Holgorson 1.2 million yes I would. So I think the money becomes an interesting topic when discussing a retread.

Wag Tag · November 10, 2015

Tony Levine...I like. His recruits are doing well at Houston.

Side Show Joe · November 11, 2015

If we can't land a highly regarded offensive coordinator from Baylor or TCU, then there are specific qualities I want to see in the finalist for our job.

1. Strong Texas recruiting ties

2. High powered offensive system

3. Successful head coaching experience at a G5 level program, in a region with multiple P5 programs, and with limited resources.

I like Canales, but he just doesn't this criteria.

MeanGreen13 · November 11, 2015

I have to be honest, the guys that we are discussing on here half the time are ridiculous. We wont get a shot at most of these people because we can't pay them enough or it would be less than lateral move. I really hope RV isn't approaching the search the same way but we all know he is and when all the chips fall, we will be left begging for scraps and get McCarney 2.0

Mean_Green09 · November 11, 2015

I have to be honest, the guys that we are discussing on here half the time are ridiculous. We wont get a shot at most of these people because we can't pay them enough or it would be less than lateral move. I really hope RV isn't approaching the search the same way but we all know he is and when all the chips fall, we will be left begging for scraps and get McCarney 2.0

You do know we are paying quite handsomely. The next hire is probably going to be the highest paid HC in CUSA.

Side Show Joe · November 11, 2015

You do know we are paying quite handsomely. The next hire is probably going to be the highest paid HC in CUSA.

Source?

Mean_Green09 · November 11, 2015

Source?

The pay scale is set at 900K-1.5 million. Source athletic department

WestTexasEagle · November 11, 2015

Do I like Applewhire and Riley - YES! But I do think we'd be better off right now with a Levine type. Been there done that coach. Maybe needs to redeem himself a bit - that'd be ok - something to prove is always good. Start the evolution process, recruit some talent, and leave it better and more desirable in a couple of years.... Hopefully in the hands of a talented and ready coordinator.

TheReal_jayD · November 11, 2015

Do I like Applewhire and Riley - YES! But I do think we'd be better off right now with a Levine type. Been there done that coach. Maybe needs to redeem himself a bit - that'd be ok - something to prove is always good. Start the evolution process, recruit some talent, and leave it better and more desirable in a couple of years.... Hopefully in the hands of a talented and ready coordinator.

yeah but the fact he was 7-5 last year. and now this year with the same group of players they are 9-0. he wasnt really maximizing the talent. i just think sometimes you have to take a chance on a young hungry assistant to jump start your program. i dont think dodge or mac were hungry. i think they both were stubborn and complacent. i would love to see a Lincoln Riley, Major Applewhite, Mike Norvell, Sonny Cumbie, Dino Babers, Jeff Traylor type to be brought in hear and jump start the program and get some excitement for not only the fan base but also recruiting. Because Houstons left over arent getting either excited

Mike Jackson · November 11, 2015

Some of Chico's comments on recruiting got me to thinking. You know Chico knows what we were doing wrong in the last 5-6 years and you know he wishes he had another chance to correct those mistakes.
Holtz was fired at South Florida I believe and reincarnated himself at La. Tech. I wonder if this is not the best type of guy for our job. A guy who had done it at a p5 (East Carolina) but somehow got off track at USF but the KEY thing is he learned from the experience. You know he came to Tech with a clear plan he knew the mistakes made at USF and corrected them. I remember thinking when they hired him that they were taking a risk. Now, when I consider someone young like Spavital coming from a place with all the resources like A&M I see that type of hire as more of a risk.
I think we need to consider more Holtz type of hires as we look at candidates. In my experience, failure in itself is not necessarily a bad thing if you learn from it.

Harry I prefer an experienced head as well. But like others have cited Skip Holtz had long history of winning as a head coach before stumbling at USF. But to really get the best candidate for the money, I think we need to look coaches that are out of work right now. And have posted this thought in another thread. I would hope that they would be looking at any coach with track record of winning before the recent skid that got them fired. At North Texas I think experience at a challenging program is invaluable. But you have to had an 4 run of winning at those challenging programs for me to consider it valuable for North Texas.

I have to be honest, the guys that we are discussing on here half the time are ridiculous. We wont get a shot at most of these people because we can't pay them enough or it would be less than lateral move. I really hope RV isn't approaching the search the same way but we all know he is and when all the chips fall, we will be left begging for scraps and get McCarney 2.0

We definitely don't need a Mac 2.0. I don't like the idea of bring in a young hot shot OC or DC from a program that has consistently got 4 & 5 recruits every year before they arrived on staff. If I buy you Kobe Beef it doesn't make you a great chef if you can make a decent steak with it. I think coordinator that was part of team that turned a program around is the type of up and comer we should be looking for if they don't have head coaching experience. Someone from the Arkansas State staff that was held over from Steve Robert staff to see some the success of the "one and done" coach years. Maybe someone Hugh Freeze took with him to Ole Miss.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Mike Jackson

TheReal_jayD · November 11, 2015

Harry I prefer an experienced head as well. But like others have cited Skip Holtz had long history of winning as a head coach before stumbling at USF. But to really get the best candidate for the money, I think we need to look coaches that are out of work right now. And have posted this thought in another thread. I would hope that they would be looking at any coach with track record of winning before the recent skid that got them fired. At North Texas I think experience at a challenging program is inv But you have to had an 4 run of winning at those challenging programs for me to consider it valuable for North Texas.
We definitely don't need a Mac 2.0. I don't like the idea of bring in a young hot shot OC or DC from a program that has consistently got 4 & 5 recruits every year before they arrived on staff. If I buy you Kobe Beef it doesn't make you a great chef if you can make a decent steak with it. I think coordinator that was part of team that turned a program around is the type of up and comer we should be looking for if they don't have head coaching experience. Someone from the Arkansas State staff that was held over from Steve Robert staff to see some the success of the "one and done" coach years. Maybe someone Hugh Freeze took with him to Ole Miss.

Gary Patterson was a coordinator before he took over TCU, Mike Leach was a coordinator before he went to tech. all 128 d1 head coaches were once Coordinators before someone took a chance on them.

casual fan · November 11, 2015

Gary Patterson was a coordinator before he took over TCU, Mike Leach was a coordinator before he went to tech. all 128 d1 head coaches were once Coordinators before someone took a chance on them.

Hire a young DC or OC if you must, but never hire a former HC with a losing record.

I promise you, if he can lose somewhere else he can and will lose here.

TheReal_jayD · November 11, 2015

Hire a young DC or OC if you must, but never hire a former HC with a losing record.
I promise you, if he can lose somewhere else he can and will lose here.

I 100% endorse thus message

VideoEagle · November 11, 2015

Hire a young DC or OC if you must, but never hire a former HC with a losing record.
I promise you, if he can lose somewhere else he can and will lose here.

Hayden Fry had a losing record at SMU before having a winning record here. One example of how you should factor in special circumstances in a coaches record.

untjim1995 · November 11, 2015

But who would that be? (not a rhetorical question, actually asking who fits that description).

Mario Cristobal was a pretty good hire at FIU. And then there is this guy:

Pat Hill, the former Fresno State coach, who doesn't appear to be coaching anywhere. Wiki shows he is the color commentator on Fresno State football broadcast now. That dude was a very solid coach. Fresno was a team you never wanted to play. He had one bad year, going 4-9, and got fired--after going 108-71 in the previous 14 years there. Fresno State went to 11 bowls from 1999-2010.

I had no idea he wasn't coaching anymore. He deserves a call, at the bare minimum.

Edited November 11, 2015 by untjim1995

SilverEagle · November 11, 2015

Hayden Fry had a losing record at SMU before having a winning record here. One example of how you should factor in special circumstances in a coaches record.

And he was fired as well.