November 2010 to present; what has really changed?

[UNT90]

Todd Dodge was fired mid season 2010. At he time we weren't the worst team in FBS college football, but we were in the bottom 10.

Since that time UNT has opened a beautiful new stadium, increased coaching salaries (both for the head coach and all assistants), and seems to have grudgingly made a surface commitment to athletics. 

And how has that surface commitment paid off? 

We are worse now than in 2010 at playing the game of football.

Zero sell outs of a beautiful, on campus  stadium.

Multiple promises made to supporters by the AD about the new stadium (concerts, better opponents, no more 5 home game seasons, etc...), all of which have been broken.

Attendance levels at pre-2008 lows. 

No football game on opening day of college football season.

An FCS as our only home OOC (both in 2015 and 2012), with the 2015 FCS designated as homecoming and played on the same day as Texas/OU. 

And that FCS whipped us by 59 points, the worst loss in college football history. 

And here we sit at 1-8, with the very real likely hood of finishing 1-11. 

Why is there no outrage by the leaders  of this institution at this complete lack of performance by a 15 year Athletiic Director? Why does the president of this university call the donors who are livid at this turn of events "a minute few?" If that is true, UNT should absolutely drop football, because no one cares. 

Rick Villarreal is paid $350k plus each year to provide results. Probably the second or third highest salary at UNT. He hasn't. In the last five years, Villarreal has also hired a coach that has destroyed a once promising basketball program. Yet there is zero accountability. None. Zip. Nil. 

Instead, Rick Villarreal will again hire a head coach. A hire that history has demonstrated will fail. But we let him make that hire anyway. 

Will the University of North Texas ever take athletics seriously? 

I hope donors withhold support until UNT finally decides to hold the AD of this university accountable. 

Edited November 10, 2015 by UNT90

[UNTcrazy727]

[untjim1995]

Todd Dodge was fired mid season 2010. At he time we weren't the worst team in FBS college football, but we were in the bottom 10.

Since that time UNT has opened a beautiful new stadium, increased coaching salaries (both for the head coach and all assistants), and seems to have grudgingly made a surface commitment to athletics. 

And how has that surface commitment paid off? 

We are worse now than in 2010 at playing the game of football.

Zero sell outs of a beautiful, on campus  stadium.

Multiple promises made to supporters by the AD about the new stadium (concerts, better opponents, no more 5 home game seasons, etc...), all of which have been broken.

Attendance levels at pre-2008 lows. 

No football game on opening day of college football season.

An FCS as our only home OOC (both in 2015 and 2012), with the 2015 FCS designated as homecoming and played on the same day as Texas/OU. 

And that FCS whipped us by 59 points, the worst loss in college football history. 

And here we sit at 1-8, with the very real likely hood of finishing 1-11. 

Why is there no outrage by the leaders  of this institution at this complete lack of performance by a 15 year Athletiic Director? Why does the president of this university call the donors who are livid at this turn of events "a minute few?" If that is true, UNT should absolutely drop football, because no one cares. 

Rick Villarreal is paid $350k plus each year to provide results. Probably the second or third highest salary at UNT. He hasn't. In the last five years, Villarreal has also hired a coach that has destroyed a once promising basketball program. Yet there is zero accountability. None. Zip. Nil. 

Instead, Rick Villarreal will again hire a head coach. A hire that history has demonstrated will fail. But we let him make that hire anyway. 

Will the University of North Texas ever take athletics seriously? 

I hope donors withhold support until UNT finally decides to hold the AD of this university accountable. 

Beautifully said, UNT90. But I wouldn't hold your breath on that last question, from a university level...they give RV the ultimatum of running an AD that doesn't get in trouble and doesn't cost the university money. Now that RV has an inner circle that will pay for his "needs", he doesn't have to ask the university for special funding, which is unacceptable.

RV has survived a colossal mess, mostly of his own doing. He has it made now. He will leave when he wants to leave. And then come back to enjoy the unveiling of the Rick Villareal Athletic Complex.

This year has been so UNT, it isn't even funny. From the SMU opener to last week's prison-raping at La Tech, everything that can go wrong, has gone wrong. If there was ever a season to absolutely clean house within the athletic department, this is it, especially since the buyouts for the coaches were paid by donors. Instead, the donors keep their buddy around or threaten to leave and the university administration absolutely shrugs and walks away so as to not upset the apple cart--a cart that all but about 30 people look at as full of rotten fruit.

[GOMG2013]

The 9-4 bowl winning season is still a big accomplishment.  People know who UNT is now.  Being in CUSA, Beyond the green...at least people and recruits know UNT is a D1 football school.  Before the bowl winning season and move to CUSA, some didn't know much about UNT.

The 9-4 season also shows that with the right talent and coaching, you can win at UNT.  All we need is solid recruiting. Better player evaluation, and more commitment from the school.  Young coaches can look at the 9-4 season and say, if they did that with that head coach and co ordinators, I can really do something there.  Recruits can think, if they went 9-4 with walk ons, transfers, and low rated recruits, then I should be able to dominate.  

Just depends on how it is presented.

[UNT90]

The 9-4 bowl winning season is still a big accomplishment.  People know who UNT is now.  Being in CUSA, Beyond the green...at least people and recruits know UNT is a D1 football school.  Before the bowl winning season and move to CUSA, some didn't know much about UNT.

The 9-4 season also shows that with the right talent and coaching, you can win at UNT.  All we need is solid recruiting. Better player evaluation, and more commitment from the school.  Young coaches can look at the 9-4 season and say, if they did that with that head coach and co ordinators, I can really do something there.  Recruits can think, if they went 9-4 with walk ons, transfers, and low rated recruits, then I should be able to dominate.  

Just depends on how it is presented.

No one remembers a win over UNLV except the people that were there. Don't get me wrong, it was nice, but it wasn't a program changing win.

Portland St 66-7 was a program changing loss. We are viewed as the worst team in college football by those not associated with UNT.

Make no mistake about it. 

RV scheduled that opportunity at a program changing loss, but refuses to (by his own admission) schedule the chance for a program  changing win (a known and respected P5 at Apogee). Just another reason. 

Edited November 10, 2015 by UNT90

[untjim1995]

No one remembers a win over UNLV except the people that were there. Don't get me wrong, it was nice, but it wasn't a program changing win.

Portland St 66-7 was a program changing loss. We are viewed as the worst team in college football by those not associated with UNT.

Make no mistake about it. 

RV scheduled that opportunity at a program changing loss, but refuses to (by his own admission) schedule the chance for a program  changing win (a known and respected P5 at Apogee). Just another reason. 

This.

I have never been so rewarded as a UNT fan than I was after seeing that score and realizing that the scheduling of an FCS opponent was what kept me from seeing that debacle in person. I wasn't there in person to see the worst loss in modern college football history--maybe I should thank RV for that, since I made the decision to never attend a game at Apogee that featured a FCS team. If I had seen it, I have a feeling that would have been my last game ever in person at Apogee, instead of it being the WKU game five days later.

I won't return to Denton for a game until RV is gone. I am fully prepared for that not to occur within the next decade at this point. And I'm ok with it now. After 25 years, you just have to draw a line in the sand somewhere. It seems like 15 years into this tenure, we all kind of know what we have with a RV-led athletic department. If that is fine with you, congratulations. That's why you are one of 2000 at the Super Pit these days and one of 10000 at Apogee, both on average. Below average is what you are getting--way below average, by the way, for 15 years now. Acceptance is apathy, which is what we have to overcome as the biggest problem at UNT.

[EagleMBA]

I have never been so rewarded as a UNT fan than I was after seeing that score and realizing that the scheduling of an FCS opponent was what kept me from seeing that debacle in person. I wasn't there in person to see the worst loss in modern college football history--maybe I should thank RV for that, since I made the decision to never attend a game at Apogee that featured a FCS team. If I had seen it, I have a feeling that would have been my last game ever in person at Apogee, instead of it being the WKU game five days later.

I won't return to Denton for a game until RV is gone. I am fully prepared for that not to occur within the next decade at this point. And I'm ok with it now. After 25 years, you just have to draw a line in the sand somewhere. It seems like 15 years into this tenure, we all kind of know what we have with a RV-led athletic department. If that is fine with you, congratulations. That's why you are one of 2000 at the Super Pit these days and one of 10000 at Apogee, both on average. Below average is what you are getting--way below average, by the way, for 15 years now. Acceptance is apathy, which is what we have to overcome as the biggest problem at UNT.

I hear you, Jim. Until management changes there will be the SOS as I see it. We will all just have to do what we can individually to effect a change in thinking at the highest level.

And we are not just beating a dead horse. This theme needs to remain front and center for as long as it takes. "Go quietly into the night" is not in my DNA.

Edited November 10, 2015 by EagleMBA
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[UNT90]

I hear you, Jim. Until management changes there will be the SOS as I see it. We will all just have to do what we can individually to effect a change in thinking at the highest level.

And we are not just beating a dead horse. This theme needs to remain front and center for as long as it takes. "Go quietly into the night" is not in my DNA.

This is correct. Stay on message for as long as it takes.

[GOMG2013]

 

Portland St 66-7 was a program changing loss. We are viewed as the worst team in college football by those not associated with UNT.

Make no mistake about it. 

we are so bad, no casual fan is paying attention to who we lose to.

[UNT90]

we are so bad, no casual fan is paying attention to who we lose to.

You are wrong. Casual grads I know have brought it up, along with fans of other programs. 

They think we are they worst team in college football. I can't disagree. Just shrug my shoulders. 

A lot of people know about this loss. 66-7 to an FCS gets notice. Lots of it.

[Ben Gooding]

You are wrong. Casual grads I know have brought it up, along with fans of other programs. 

They think we are they worst team in college football. I can't disagree. Just shrug my shoulders. 

A lot of people know about this loss. 66-7 to an FCS gets notice. Lots of it.

Yeah, it's bad. We are so bad right now and it's because the lack of recruiting. We have to consistently land ten 3-star guys each signing class. That is what the gold standard in the G5 is, ten 3-stars. 

[Ben Gooding]

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is there, does it make a sound?

If you implying that no one heard about the Portland loss you are sadly mistaken. People heard about it. I was receiving text messages from like 10 people that I rarely talk to blowing my phone up throughout the game. It was a kick in the nuts and the foot doing the kicking was RV as far as I'm concerned. 

[casual fan]

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is there, does it make a sound?

That dead tree rots on the ground for years to come.

In the case of the Portland State game, any time there's a big upset by an FCS team over a FBS team, the announcers are going to bring up the score of that game.

 

[NTAlum09]

Todd Dodge was fired mid season 2010. At he time we weren't the worst team in FBS college football, but we were in the bottom 10.

Since that time UNT has opened a beautiful new stadium, increased coaching salaries (both for the head coach and all assistants), and seems to have grudgingly made a surface commitment to athletics. 

And how has that surface commitment paid off? 

We are worse now than in 2010 at playing the game of football.

Zero sell outs of a beautiful, on campus  stadium.

Multiple promises made to supporters by the AD about the new stadium (concerts, better opponents, no more 5 home game seasons, etc...), all of which have been broken.

Attendance levels at pre-2008 lows. 

No football game on opening day of college football season.

An FCS as our only home OOC (both in 2015 and 2012), with the 2015 FCS designated as homecoming and played on the same day as Texas/OU. 

And that FCS whipped us by 59 points, the worst loss in college football history. 

And here we sit at 1-8, with the very real likely hood of finishing 1-11. 

Why is there no outrage by the leaders  of this institution at this complete lack of performance by a 15 year Athletiic Director? Why does the president of this university call the donors who are livid at this turn of events "a minute few?" If that is true, UNT should absolutely drop football, because no one cares. 

Rick Villarreal is paid $350k plus each year to provide results. Probably the second or third highest salary at UNT. He hasn't. In the last five years, Villarreal has also hired a coach that has destroyed a once promising basketball program. Yet there is zero accountability. None. Zip. Nil. 

Instead, Rick Villarreal will again hire a head coach. A hire that history has demonstrated will fail. But we let him make that hire anyway. 

Will the University of North Texas ever take athletics seriously? 

I hope donors withhold support until UNT finally decides to hold the AD of this university accountable. 

Well said.

Our current AD and the past two coaches haven't figured out how to solve the problem rather spending majority of their energy dwelling on past accomplishments. 

9-4 was great but it wasn't like an Heart of Dallas Bowl was going to attract recruits right away when you're competing against 38 other bowl games.

[untbowler]

What has changed?? -- Some of the fan base is actually now very angry and ready for change

[UNT90]

Well said.

Our current AD and the past two coaches haven't figured out how to solve the problem rather spending majority of their energy deflecting blame and justifying their paycheck.

 

Fixed.

[rcade]

we are so bad, no casual fan is paying attention to who we lose to.

News of the worst FBS loss to an FCS school was reported all over the college football world. Fans of other schools will be hanging that albatross around our necks for a long time.

[MeanGreenTexan]

News of the worst FBS loss to an FCS school was reported all over the college football world. Fans of other schools will be hanging that albatross around our necks for a long time.

You guys are really ignoring the bigger problem of apathy regarding North Texas sports.   I don't think people will remember that loss any more than people will remember the HoD Bowl win.

Newsflash:  Outside of the people who post on this very forum, and maybe a couple-hundred other people, no one really cares about NT athletics.

[southsideguy]

You guys are really ignoring the bigger problem of apathy regarding North Texas sports.   I don't think people will remember that loss any more than people will remember the HoD Bowl win.

Newsflash:  Outside of the people who post on this very forum, and maybe a couple-hundred other people, no one really cares about NT athletics.

Maybe we just need to accept the fact we were best off in the Sun Belt.  We will draw the same crowds as CUSA games and be able to compete on lower stage.  I just find it so hard to believe the locals dont support the local teams or universities.  Lets face the fact the universities are what make denton otherwise we would be gainesville.

[UNT90]

You guys are really ignoring the bigger problem of apathy regarding North Texas sports.   I don't think people will remember that loss any more than people will remember the HoD Bowl win.

Newsflash:  Outside of the people who post on this very forum, and maybe a couple-hundred other people, no one really cares about NT athletics.

If this isn't an indictment, hell, conviction, of a 15 year AD, I don't know what is...

Edited November 11, 2015 by UNT90

[Ryan Munthe]

You guys are really ignoring the bigger problem of apathy regarding North Texas sports.   I don't think people will remember that loss any more than people will remember the HoD Bowl win.

Newsflash:  Outside of the people who post on this very forum, and maybe a couple-hundred other people, no one really cares about NT athletics.

Bingo. I don't think many people remember that we lost 66-7, just that we got obliterated by a team we paid to play. But do you think current UNT students or casual fans remember UNT vs OU years back? Probably not.

To the casual UNT fan who went to the HoD, it's just the same ol' UNT.

Essentially, no one cares that we lost by 60 to an FCS. All that matters is the L and the fact that we paid them to beat us badly. But it also got McCarney fired and put Rick under fire, so it is a blessing, isn't it?

I guess I don't think the loss is something that's going to haunt our program for years. I've been saying for YEARS that the esteem most of Texas holds us in is the same as Sam Houston State. And we need to fix that.

Claiming the PSU debacle is going to set us back 5 years is asinine. We're still where we were last year.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Ryan Munthe

[MeanGreenTexan]

Maybe we just need to accept the fact we were best off in the Sun Belt.  We will draw the same crowds as CUSA games and be able to compete on lower stage.  I just find it so hard to believe the locals dont support the local teams or universities.  Lets face the fact the universities are what make denton otherwise we would be gainesville.

Not saying we shouldn't try to be relevant...  I just don't know how it will happen.  
Every team has ebbs & flows.  But to go on a TCU-like trajectory should be our aim.  A Boise St. trajectory would not be bad at all... but a SJSU trajectory (going nowhere, as we currently are) is not good.

[Ryan Munthe]

Maybe we just need to accept the fact we were best off in the Sun Belt.  We will draw the same crowds as CUSA games and be able to compete on lower stage.  I just find it so hard to believe the locals dont support the local teams or universities.  Lets face the fact the universities are what make denton otherwise we would be gainesville.

Agreed. CUSA hasn't really done much for our attendance, the name draw was a lie. I don't get why the locals don't come out either. I've theorized various guesses, but Denton would be any other of the "I have a grandma who lives there" towns in North & East Texas if it wasn't for us. 

All I can figure out is that a lot of people look at the football team as an afterthought, a drain on the university...they would be spirited either way. Stupid and misinformed, yes. But all I can figure out. We would be Lamar if we didn't field a football team.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Ryan Munthe

[rcade]

Newsflash:  Outside of the people who post on this very forum, and maybe a couple-hundred other people, no one really cares about NT athletics.

There are millions of college football fans. Many of them follow what's happening across the sport. They won't hear much about a school like UNT, but when they do hear something, it would be nice if it wasn't an embarrassment of historic proportions.

A college football fan with no ties to Boise State probably knows they've built something out of nothing on their smurf turf.

If someone meets an alumnus of Appalachian State and they start talking about football, the Michigan win is going to come up quick.

That's one reason why the Portland State debacle matters. It reinforces our reputation as a terrible football program in the eyes of a lot of people.

Another thing it does is turn off a group of people we need: UNT alumni who follow college football but don't follow us.

A school as big as UNT has a lot of college football fans. Some of them are only casually interested in the Mean Green, because they would rather follow more successful programs that are on the tube and in the news all the time.

The only way to get them to care is to give them a bandwagon to jump on. We have to win, and big wins have to come against schools that impress fans instead of RV-scheduled jokes like Incarnate Word and Bethune-Cookman.

 

Edited November 11, 2015 by rcade

[MeanGreenTexan]

There are millions of college football fans. Many of them follow what's happening across the sport. They won't hear much about a school like UNT, but when they do hear something, it would be nice if it wasn't an embarrassment of historic proportions.

A college football fan with no ties to Boise State probably knows they've built something out of nothing on their smurf turf.

If someone meets an alumnus of Appalachian State and they start talking about football, the Michigan win is going to come up quick.

That's one reason why the Portland State debacle matters. It reinforces our reputation as a terrible football program in the eyes of a lot of people.

Another thing it does is turn off a group of people we need: UNT alumni who follow college football but don't follow us.

A school as big as UNT has a lot of college football fans. Some of them are only casually interested in the Mean Green, because they would rather follow more successful programs that are on the tube and in the news all the time.

The only way to get them to care is to give them a bandwagon to jump on. We have to win, and big wins have to come against schools that impress fans instead of RV-scheduled jokes like Incarnate Word and Bethune-Cookman.

 

I still think you're coming from an insider's point of view.

A college football fan will remember Boise St's blue turf, of course! It's unique.  What they're really going to remember is the Fiesta Bowl win VS OU.  

AppSt VS Michigan =/= to PortSt VS UNT.  Sorry.  Michigan is a storied program with a rich, rich history of success.

The Portland St loss is likely already forgotten by most people.  Now, if you are publicly a UNT fan, maybe people who know you will razz you about it.  Otherwise, no one is going to care.

The same UNT alumni who "follow college football but don't follow us" were there for the HoD Bowl win... then never showed up to Apogee.  That's a part of it...  Casual fans are not hardcore fans.

And getting a bandwagon rolling has to start with winning.  Ask TCU and Boise St.  It doesn't matter who you beat during the regular season, you need to beat as many as you can, then win your bowl game.  Then, you need to do that consistently over a 3-4 year period.  That will build you up a 'base'.   So, by all means, schedule Portland St, Bethune-Cookman, Nicholls St, Incarnate Word, Abilene Christian, Lamar, etc...,  but we must win those games, and many many more... consistently.