The fan effect of late season paycheck games in a bad season

UNT90 · November 10, 2015

"Need for Achievement is related to the difficulty of tasks people choose to undertake. Those with low N-Ach may choose very easy tasks, in order to minimise risk of failure, or highly difficult tasks, such that a failure would not be embarrassing."

nailed it.

Dr. Seuss · November 10, 2015

I don't know if anyone has noticed, but the birds aren't chirping in here as usual. It's dark and very quiet this week, almost somber. Even in a one win season, there was excitement and some anticipation last week heading into a conference game against La. Tech, even though we were not supposed to win.
Now we play a very good Tennessee program on the road for another paycheck. I realize that to fund the program playing these types of games is required although I would hope for just one a season not two.
The point of this post is the effects of this game on the alumni and fans. Honestly, I have no interest in this game or these types of games. Part of this is how far our program has fallen on hard times this season and in general. I wish the powers that be would look at this week and this game and the effect it has on the morale of the program as they start the process of rebuilding this program.
I know UNT90 and others will jump on and blame RV for this, but how about the rest of the University hierarchy? Should they not bare some of the responsibility? They don't seem to complain when the checks for these games are being cashed. Could they do some things in terms of student fees and funding that could prevent us from having to play these types of games? Absolutely. And it needs to be part of the conversation in this new coaching hire.
It is a good thing that we appear to be stepping up our compensation package for the next coaching staff. It is an extremely important hire. However, a coaching staff can only do so much. If the administration is requiring us to play two body bag games a year to adequately fund this thing then they need to understand the ramifications of that. It really hurts morale.

These games wouldnt be so bad if we had the right coach.. I hate to be a broken record but again, lets look at Memphis. 4 years ago, do you think they had a shot at beating Ole Miss? Doubtful, but look what the right coach did.....

greenminer · November 10, 2015

I'd be okay with the timing if we were a winning football program. Right now it's just a kick in the nuts.

untjim1995 · November 10, 2015

What gets me is that the University hierarchy or administration or whatever you want to call them don't see the money that they are just flat out giving away by not insisting on a reasonable product on the field. You put 28,000 people in that place 6 days a year buying tickets, concessions, parking, t-shirts, etc. I don't know how much money that is, but it would damn sure give you enough to buy out a crappy coach if you had one you needed to get rid of. Why can't they see that?

Because we only deal in known costs, not in opportunity costs, when it comes to athletics budgeting. Never have, never will. If it did matter, they would have fired Benford as soon as the attendance averages dropped 33% below the predecessors last season here, instead of him staying here after a 50+% decline.

The biggest problem with their view on athletics is that it is literally completely different than every other FBS team in Texas. UTSA and Texas State raise their fees at triple what we did to start, not worrying about that being too much on the students because the state allows it. UTEP, Rice, UH, SMU, UTSA, and Texas State have all hosted P5s as home games since we brought in P5 powerhouse Indiana in 2011.

We either don't know how to run a FBS program or we don't want to run one like everyone else does (for whatever reasons). RV's tenure and job security defines this sad fact in a rather pathetically obvious manner. He just does what the BOR demands and gives access to the UNT 17 for $$$. That these 17 people made millions in their lives and have given some of the $$$ away to this place because they believe in RV's vision that has produced a football record of 65-115 in his tenure is one of life's greatest mysteries. These people are smart people, obviously...yet what they accept here from RV would've been fireable if it happened in their businesses. To then have the audacity to threaten to pull away donations if their guy gets fired, knowing the BOR will fall over backwards to meet their demands, is the absolute essence of why North Texas is the shape that it finds itself. We have fans here that are so starved for wins because of this lack of leadership that they were willing to back an interim coach to become the permanent coach because we won a game at home by a TD against an in-state peer who was down to their 4th and 5th string QBs. Its just become too damn embarrassing for many of us to stick with it all anymore.

Apathy is the disease. The BOR and administration are the carriers. RV is just a symptom of the virus. But if you get rid of him, its only because you don't want to be sick anymore--a new AD would represent medicine to hopefully cope with the disease until you see IF a cure can ever be found here. But right now, all RV represents to most of the non-UNT 17 fans is more sickness. To get near anything he touches or he attends is becoming too risky for anyone who wants to be healthy.

Aldo · November 10, 2015

So...you're advocating further weakening our schedule?

I think scheduling Texas, Georgia, A&M, Florida, Tennessee etc etc away is balanced out through scheduling Idaho, Nicholls, Bethune Cookman, etc etc at home.

Eliminating the paycheck game eliminates us from scheduling the FCS home game, which leaves us to scheduling other OOC mid-majors. (Although we don't have to eliminate the paycheck games in order to schedule the OOC mid-major games).

But we won't get an opportunity until the 2020s, if I'm not mistaken.

Matt from A700 · November 10, 2015

Do these paychecks get sent directly to RV?

Otherwise, couldn't we use them to buy out his contract?

MeanGreenTexan · November 11, 2015

Do these paychecks get sent directly to RV?
Otherwise, couldn't we use them to buy out his contract?

Sure! If we want the Softball/Volleyball/Soccer/Tennis/etc... teams to be VERY underfunded.

The football paycheck games pay the Athletic Department bills.

untbowler · November 11, 2015

Sure! If we want the Softball/Volleyball/Soccer/Tennis/etc... teams to be VERY underfunded.
The football paycheck games pay the Athletic Department bills.

which it has to now since we have a lazy AD and staff who do not get out and raise the money he promised 15 yrs ago.

MeanGreenTexan · November 11, 2015

which it has to now since we have a lazy AD and staff who do not get out and raise the money he promised 15 yrs ago.

He's raising the money he promised... the programs are funded, aren't they? That shouldn't be held against him.
Now, if there are other ways to fund those teams without the football paycheck games, and RV & staff are unable to raise those, then that should be counted against him.
If there's a viable way to do raise those funds, he knows about it, but he's "too lazy" to do it, he should be fired immediately. I just don't think this is the case.

oldguystudent · November 11, 2015

The real fan effect

I put blame squarely on these guys:

DSC_0097.JPG?itok=cJFw6Ow2

rcade · November 11, 2015

Honestly, I have no interest in this game or these types of games. Part of this is how far our program has fallen on hard times this season and in general. I wish the powers that be would look at this week and this game and the effect it has on the morale of the program as they start the process of rebuilding this program.

I would have some interest in these games if the chance that UNT would put a scare into the payee was greater than 0.0%.

Instead, we're the best paycheck game an opponent could hope for. We're so bad that our fans can wear UNT colors in opposing stadiums and be treated with kindness.

southsideguy · November 11, 2015

I would have some interest in these games if the chance that UNT would put a scare into the payee was greater than 0.0%.
Instead, we're the best paycheck game an opponent could hope for. We're so bad that our fans can wear UNT colors in opposing stadiums and be treated with kindness.

heck they show us to our seats buy us a hot dog and say it will get better.................i hate pity but like hot dogs

UNT90 · November 11, 2015

Mizzuo doesn't have a stadium that seats 100k+ for 7 or more games a season where they can easily get sold out games regardless of who they are playing. I bet Texas, aTm, and LSU have had all their stadiums at or near capacity for each of their games this season. For them to give up a home game will cost them millions of dollars at the gate alone.
We can't keep up with the economies of scale that the top shelf P5 programs work on.

Why do you only use these P5s? Could it be they are the only ones that fit this argument?

I know you have seen the list of numerous G5s that have scheduled marketable P5s for one and ones, so don't be disengenuous and just single out Mizzou.

You know others are getting done what RV blatantly refuses to even attempt to do.

UNTFan23 · November 11, 2015

Why do you only use these P5s? Could it be they are the only ones that fit this argument?
I know you have seen the list of numerous G5s that have scheduled marketable P5s for one and ones, so don't be disengenuous and just single out Mizzou.
You know others are getting done what RV blatantly refuses to even attempt to do.

You singled out Mizzou, not me. Outside of our region (Texas, Oklahoma, and Louisiana) there are some P5 schools I'm sure we could get 2 for 1 deals and maybe even a 1 for 1 but we have no legitimate shot at getting OU, Texas, aTm, and LSU into Apogee. Oklahoma State is a maybe only if we agree to a 2 for 1 like what UTSA got.

UNT90 · November 11, 2015

You singled out Mizzou, not me. Outside of our region (Texas, Oklahoma, and Louisiana) there are some P5 schools I'm sure we could get 2 for 1 deals and maybe even a 1 for 1 but we have no legitimate shot at getting OU, Texas, aTm, and LSU into Apogee. Oklahoma State is a maybe only if we agree to a 2 for 1 like what UTSA got.

One thing is for sure, we have zero shot at those teams with this AD, because he would rather whore us to them than even try to explore the possibility of a home and gone with them.

You are aware that A&M played at SMU last year, correct? A school with a stadium the same size as UNT, correct?

Some schools get it done, others don't. And then there is the one that never does.

FirefightnRick · November 11, 2015

http://www.fbschedules.com/2015/06/kentucky-southern-miss-schedule-2016-17-football-series/

So USM gets $200k to travel to Kentucky, a winnable game in my opinion, then gets a return game and keeps the gate as well.

Thats someone at USM doing their job, working hard and looking out for their own program right there.

Rick

UNTFan23 · November 11, 2015

One thing is for sure, we have zero shot at those teams with this AD, because he would rather whore us to them than even try to explore the possibility of a home and gone with them.
You are aware that A&M played at SMU last year, correct? A school with a stadium the same size as UNT, correct?
Some schools get it done, others don't. And then there is the one that never does.

aTm and SMU have a prior history of playing against each other thanks to the ole Southwest Conference. We don't have anywhere close to that kind of history with aTm. The only times we have played aTm locally (in recent history) was at the now defunct Texas Stadium.

FirefightnRick · November 11, 2015

aTm and SMU have a prior history of playing against each other thanks to the ole Southwest Conference. We don't have anywhere close to that kind of history with aTm. The only times we have played aTm locally (in recent history) was at the now defunct Texas Stadium.

And during the modern era...70's in guessing?...until Ford was built the only time SMU and A&M played in this region was at Cowboy Stadium, too. SMU has since hosted Texas Tech and Oklahoma State. Physically it's possible and should also be possible with Apogee as well. The difference is effort.

Again,....other programs seem to get it done and ours doesn't.

Rick

Edited November 11, 2015 by FirefightnRick

rcade · November 11, 2015

aTm and SMU have a prior history of playing against each other thanks to the ole Southwest Conference.

Do you think anybody affiliated with A&M cares about the old Southwest Conference affiliation with SMU? I think they likely scheduled that game for other reasons.

Tyler Maryak · November 11, 2015

I don't know if anyone has noticed, but the birds aren't chirping in here as usual. It's dark and very quiet this week, almost somber. Even in a one win season, there was excitement and some anticipation last week heading into a conference game against La. Tech, even though we were not supposed to win.
Now we play a very good Tennessee program on the road for another paycheck. I realize that to fund the program playing these types of games is required although I would hope for just one a season not two.
The point of this post is the effects of this game on the alumni and fans. Honestly, I have no interest in this game or these types of games. Part of this is how far our program has fallen on hard times this season and in general. I wish the powers that be would look at this week and this game and the effect it has on the morale of the program as they start the process of rebuilding this program.
I know UNT90 and others will jump on and blame RV for this, but how about the rest of the University hierarchy? Should they not bare some of the responsibility? They don't seem to complain when the checks for these games are being cashed. Could they do some things in terms of student fees and funding that could prevent us from having to play these types of games? Absolutely. And it needs to be part of the conversation in this new coaching hire.
It is a good thing that we appear to be stepping up our compensation package for the next coaching staff. It is an extremely important hire. However, a coaching staff can only do so much. If the administration is requiring us to play two body bag games a year to adequately fund this thing then they need to understand the ramifications of that. It really hurts morale.

Maybe this is who is responsible for UNT's program rebuilding. Maybe THAT is why it never seems to stick...

UNTFan23 · November 11, 2015

Do you think anybody affiliated with A&M cares about the old Southwest Conference affiliation with SMU? I think they likely scheduled that game for other reasons.

Any easy win, like we would be?

aTm would likely love to play a 2 for 1 with us as they'd only have a small payout ($200,000 to $300,000 to cover our travel expenses) and their Texas alumni who can't get to Collie Station have an easy location to travel to (and likely without even having to stay overnight in Denton). It's a win for them, no doubt about that. We'd likely make close to a million for the one game they come to Denton if we price the tickets right.

Too bad they already have two games lined up (2016 and 2017) in at&t Stadium with Arkansas. I'm not sure how far out the series between those two schools goes.

Edited November 11, 2015 by UNTFan23

Christopher Walker · November 11, 2015

I think scheduling Texas, Georgia, A&M, Florida, Tennessee etc etc away is balanced out through scheduling Idaho, Nicholls, Bethune Cookman, etc etc at home.
Eliminating the paycheck game eliminates us from scheduling the FCS home game, which leaves us to scheduling other OOC mid-majors. (Although we don't have to eliminate the paycheck games in order to schedule the OOC mid-major games).
But we won't get an opportunity until the 2020s, if I'm not mistaken.

Contracts can be broken. With repercussions, yes, but it can and does actively happen.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Christopher Walker

untjim1995 · November 11, 2015

I've posted this before, but the team to go after for a series of any kind is Oklahoma State. They play TCU here every other year in DFW, but that's it. OU, UT, Arkansas, A&M, Tech, and Baylor all play in DFW at least once a year, sometimes twice a year. But Okie Lite doesn't--and since T. Boone lives close by, he just might be persuaded, since he has seen his OSU Cowboys travel to play UTSA and Central Michigan in back-to-back seasons, plus other road games at FAU, Troy, and ULL in the past. Denton is an easy trip for their team, plus they have tons of alumni here in the DFW area. Even a 2 for 1 would be great.

What our fans have to get rid of is the mindset that we have to have 6 home games a year. If a bodybag game is necessary, that only leaves 3 OOC games left. If two of the series are G5s, as in SMU and Army now, then that leaves one game left. buying a spare FCS team is absolutely wasted money in every way imaginable. If you instead, signed a home and home with somebody else, its possible you would only have 5 home games, but if done correctly, you could use the SMU "road" game as justification for only having 5 home games. The problem this year was that you used that situation to bring in Portland State, instead of an actual FBS team. An actual FBS team, again if scheduled correctly, brings in actual fans of their own, as well as maybe even a few extra fans of your own that want to see us play someone above the FCS level. If said FBS team beats you 66-7, instead of an FCS spare that nobody has ever heard of, it probably doesn't garner any attention, other than what its been like when La Tech steam rolls us. But, instead, now going forward, because of this debacle that should have never even been scheduled, we are the owners of "Worst Loss in College Football History".

If you sign a 2 for 1 with Okie State, for example, play them in Stillwater on the years you play SMU in Dallas. You play at SMU, at bodybag, and at OSU, plus Army at home and your CUSA schedule. That gets you 5.5 home games and 6.5 road games. Then, the next year, you play SMU an dOSU at home, while traveling to Army and bodybag, plus your CUSA schedule, which gives you 6 home games and 6 road games, while allowing you to keep the easy P5 bodybag $$$ that is needed, as well as giving your fanbase three opponents worth seeing in person in Denton in a 2-year time span.

In the end, it really doesn't matter--the FCS games and bodybags are scheduled, as are SMU and Army, for so long out that none of us will see a schedule like that I mentioned. And there are so many fans here that prefer tailgating to actual watching decent football inside Apogee, that a 6-game home schedule every year is a must, even if it means playing Incarnate Word and Abilene Christian. Its all just further proof that the beating of being a UNT fan has pretty much wiped out every bit of reasonable expectation for a FBS program of our size and market.

FirefightnRick · November 11, 2015

Just thinking out loud...but I bet Aggie fans wished they were playing the Mean Green this weekend instead of Western Carolina? At least the one who offered me his four tickets for that game in College Ststion does.

Rick

UNT90 · November 11, 2015

aTm and SMU have a prior history of playing against each other thanks to the ole Southwest Conference. We don't have anywhere close to that kind of history with aTm. The only times we have played aTm locally (in recent history) was at the now defunct Texas Stadium.

Don't give me this tired ass excuse. A&M ain't doing SMU a favor because they were in the same conference 25 years ago. That's complete crap and you know it.

They got it done and we didn't. Plain and simple.

They also got it done this year with Baylor. But that's probably because they are both private religious based schools, right?

Always an excuse with you guys.

RV has publicly stated HE HAS NEVER TRIED. What part of that don't you get?