The fan effect of late season paycheck games in a bad season

FirefightnRick · November 10, 2015

You can laugh, but isn't it a sad statement when people post their true thoughts on here and it is ridiculed? Seems to me people are more concerned about being "right first" than having a meaningful dialogue about the situation we find ourselves in today...

So you truly believe,..since its your "TRUE THOUGHTS after all ...that others should share the blame with the guy that's been here for 15 years? People who weren't even on campus when he was making many of the decisions that has put us where we are now?

BTW..I want to laugh but it's not funny to me. I'm just shaking my head in amazement that you think this way.

I still want to believe you don't.

Rick

untcampbell · November 10, 2015

OGS nailed it.

GMG

oldguystudent · November 10, 2015

we are misplacing the inability to fundraise (through MGC membership, season ticket and general ticket sales) onto the students.

This guy gets it. We want to simply place further financial debt and burden on the shoulders of a bunch of teenagers because the 30-something "professionals" tasked with raising that money out in the world from the gainfully employed are either too inept or too disinterested to bother.

Aldo · November 10, 2015

So you truly believe,..since its your "TRUE THOUGHTS after all ...that others should share the blame with the guy that's been here for 15 years? People who weren't even on campus when he was making many of the decisions that has put us where we are now?
BTW..I want to laugh but it's not funny to me. I'm just shaking my head in amazement that you think this way.
I still want to believe you don't.
Rick

I think what Harry is getting at is that RV has been getting away with scheduling body bag games to fund the department. Why hasn't anyone above him (President, BOR) stepped in and said, enough is enough, raise money like you're being paid to do?

The disinterest by the administration over the athletic program is another nail in our current coffin.

Harry · November 10, 2015

I hear you Jim. You're right.

I guess the frustrating thing to me is everyone here wants to blame RV. He's one guy. I don't one guy to be the key to our success and failures at UNT. I want to see an entire system working towards the same goals. I am beginning to question the entire system.

Look at Willie Fritz and Georgia Southern. He is considered by many as the top guy for this job. The reason is a he wins. Yet when you look at his schedule and see who he is beating (the sisters of the poor this year), you realize that it's not just Willie Fritz that produces the winning program. It is also an administration who is committed to having a successful program and is willing to invest in making sure that happens. Georgia Southern doesn't just deliver a dollar amount budget to their AD and say "we don't give a crap who you play to come up with the money". And Willie Fritz doesn't take that job if he is forced to play a bunch of body bag and unwinnable non conference games because he wants to build his resume. Look at poor UTSA. They've played what 4 body bag type games this year and what did it accomplish for them? They have 1 win and are talking about firing Coker.

I hope that the best candidates we are talking to are being very serious about the scheduling and the impact that it has on his ability to turn this program around.

We should have the resources here to play ONE paycheck game at the beginning part of the season. The rest of the non conference should be winnable games against teams from this region period.

Green P1 · November 10, 2015

I would love to see the gmg.com webstats for those two periods. I can't remember the last time the board was this dead.

To be fair... I think lots of people are hoping if they don't post... Maybe 90 won't either.

edcollopy · November 10, 2015

I agree Harry. There has to be more to the scheduling than any of knows. If the administration is happy w/ an empty stadium and an embarrassing window to the university (football), then they sure as hell have it. Kids and pets will only get away with what their parents/owners will allow, and apparently Rick is allowed to get by with a disgusting product w/ no accountability.

Ben Gooding · November 10, 2015

Harry, we suck. That's your answer. RV is stealing from you too. Less clicks = less money. It's RV's fault that this site is growing stagnant rather fast. Look at the bright side though, we get a new coach in the very near future. Let's just hope that it's not another garbage RV decision. Odds....grim.

UNT90 · November 10, 2015

The Big 12 only has 3 available OOC slots. Given how important SOS is now to the Playoff committee, our ability to schedule some regional P5 schools is going to become more difficult.
You're kidding yourself if schools like OU, aTm, Texas, and LSU will ever step foot on our campus. Those schools would actually lose money if they attempted to fill their schedule with home and home games with lower level G5 schools. About the only way we'd be lucky enough to get a top shelf P5 schools is to play the game in Jerry World.

Yet Arkansas St, ULL, and many others get it done.

But poor little old UNT just needs to keep being themselves and leave little ole RV alone, right?

Travis · November 10, 2015

I do blame the University hierarchy as well. But for not getting rid of an AD who has consistently under-performed in the area that is most important... A decent college athletics program.

EagleMBA · November 10, 2015

Yet Arkansas St, ULL, and many others get it done.
But poor little old UNT just needs to keep being themselves and leave little ole RV alone, right?

Graddean referenced long-established research concerning people's levels of need for achievement in another thread. Here is a description of people with low need to achieve. Sound familiar?

"Need for Achievement is related to the difficulty of tasks people choose to undertake. Those with low N-Ach may choose very easy tasks, in order to minimise risk of failure, or highly difficult tasks, such that a failure would not be embarrassing."

FirefightnRick · November 10, 2015

I think what Harry is getting at is that RV has been getting away with scheduling body bag games to fund the department. Why hasn't anyone above him (President, BOR) stepped in and said, enough is enough, raise money like you're being paid to do?

That would be the university hiearchy demanding accountability by RV. Only that's not what Harry posted.

Harry posted....

..."Could they (University hierachy) do some things in terms of student fees and funding that could prevent us from having to play these types of games?"....

Thats Harry asking "why doesn't someone else do RV's job?".

Im sorry but that's two completely different things.

Rick

UNT90 · November 10, 2015

To be fair... I think lots of people are hoping if they don't post... Maybe 90 won't either.

Not gonna happen...

UNTFan23 · November 10, 2015

Yet Arkansas St, ULL, and many others get it done.
But poor little old UNT just needs to keep being themselves and leave little ole RV alone, right?

Maybe if we were willing to schedule 2 for 1 games we might have a better shot at getting mid-level P5 schools but there is no way Texas, aTm, and LSU will ever step foot in Apogee. I bet those schools would only play us if we had the game in Arlington or some other neutral venue.

UNT90 · November 10, 2015

That would be the university hiearchy demanding accountability by RV. Only that's not what Harry posted.
Harry posted....
..."Could they (University hierachy) do some things in terms of student fees and funding that could prevent us from having to play these types of games?"....
Thats Harry asking "why doesn't someone else do RV's job?".

Im sorry but that's two completely different things.

Rick

It's also RV's JOB to convince the administration to do what is bolded above. They don't know it's needed if he doesn't ask/yell/scream for it.

Maybe if we were willing to schedule 2 for 1 games we might have a better shot at getting mid-level P5 schools but there is no way Texas, aTm, and LSU will ever step foot in Apogee. I bet those schools would only play us if we had the game in Arlington or some other neutral venue.

Yet Mizzou schedules a one and one with Arkansas St.

There are numerous other examples of marketable P5s signing one and ones with G5s. If anything, RV's laziness is hurting the effort to force these teams to play 1 and 1s.

It just never happens here...

forevereagle · November 10, 2015

Not gonna happen...

Deep down, we all know that, but hope springs eternal.

UNT90 · November 10, 2015

Deep down, we all know that, but hope springs eternal.

for 2 of you, anyway...

forevereagle · November 10, 2015

for 2 of you, anyway...

Yeah, that's all.

Christopher Walker · November 10, 2015

I know UNT90 and others will jump on and blame RV for this, but how about the rest of the University hierarchy? Should they not bare some of the responsibility? They don't seem to complain when the checks for these games are being cashed. Could they do some things in terms of student fees and funding that could prevent us from having to play these types of games? Absolutely. And it needs to be part of the conversation in this new coaching hire.
It is a good thing that we appear to be stepping up our compensation package for the next coaching staff. It is an extremely important hire. However, a coaching staff can only do so much. If the administration is requiring us to play two body bag games a year...

The admin is not requiring that whatsoever. You are right in that the admin does bare some responsibility, and that's why you see the current level of hands-on involvement that Smatresk has in higher level AD affairs right now. That said... (see below a ways)

I know I'm a broken record ( what would be the modern version of that term?)

That term's still relevant, and you can thank my generation for such. http://bizbeatblog.dallasnews.com/2015/10/with-purchase-of-ar-vinyl-pressing-plant-josey-records-isnt-just-a-record-store-anymore.html/

OK. I'll have meaningful dialogue. If throwing money at the problem is the solution (hint: I don't think that's the end all be all), then I really, really, really don't think that unilaterally imposing that responsibility on the students is the answer. It's tiring to see that thrown around time and time again when I look in the program and see so little money from so few alumni. Thing is, no matter how much money we throw at it, the university and athletic department will find a way to spend it that will still require us to go whoring every year. Kinda parallels the meteoric rise in tuition over the past couple decades. Has the quality of a college education increased with the cost over that time? I mean, the students are bearing the brunt of that, and what are they getting for it that we didn't 25 years ago?

Preach.

I hear you Jim. You're right.
I guess the frustrating thing to me is everyone here wants to blame RV. He's one guy. I don't one guy to be the key to our success and failures at UNT. I want to see an entire system working towards the same goals. I am beginning to question the entire system.

But Harry, he's the one guy who is responsible for all of this, as detailed in his job title and description.

Why did Tim Wolfe resign from Missouri, really? Why did the CEO of Volkswagen resign? Why did the entire command structure of the Air Force resign a few years ago over that one airman accidentally loading a live nuke onto a trans-American flight path? Because they are responsible and beholden for not only their actions, but of those they employ - as well as the collective faith and confidence of their constituency.

RV has never been held to any standard of responsibility. There are those who are quick to say he was hamstrung by an administration, a BOR, a donor base, etc etc. But if he was actually competent in his position, all of that could have been handled in a manner that puts North Texas ahead of where it was before, even if only by a small margin. Instead we have years of hostile excuses, no semblence of contrition, and no public "plan or vision" set forth.

The only reason RV has yet to be let go is because there are those amongst the 17 who have threatened not to finance certain individual projects to round out the Mean Green Athletic Village. That. Is. Sad. Pathetic, even.

UNTFan23 · November 10, 2015

It's also RV's JOB to convince the administration to do what is bolded above. They don't know it's needed if he doesn't ask/yell/scream for it.
Yet Mizzou schedules a one and one with Arkansas St.
There are numerous other examples of marketable P5s signing one and ones with G5s. If anything, RV's laziness is hurting the effort to force these teams to play 1 and 1s.
It just never happens here...

Mizzuo doesn't have a stadium that seats 100k+ for 7 or more games a season where they can easily get sold out games regardless of who they are playing. I bet Texas, aTm, and LSU have had all their stadiums at or near capacity for each of their games this season. For them to give up a home game will cost them millions of dollars at the gate alone.

We can't keep up with the economies of scale that the top shelf P5 programs work on.

FirefightnRick · November 10, 2015

But Harry, he's the one guy who is responsible for all of this, as detailed in his job title and description.
Why did Tim Wolfe resign from Missouri, really? Why did the CEO of Volkswagen resign? Why did the entire command structure of the Air Force resign a few years ago over that one airman accidentally loading a live nuke onto a trans-American flight path? Because they are responsible and beholden for not only their actions, but of those they employ - as well as the collective faith and confidence of their constituency.
RV has never been held to any standard of responsibility. There are those who are quick to say he was hamstrung by an administration, a BOR, a donor base, etc etc. But if he was actually competent in his position, all of that could have been handled in a manner that puts North Texas ahead of where it was before, even if only by a small margin. Instead we have years of hostile excuses, no semblence of contrition, and no public "plan or vision" set forth.
The only reason RV has yet to be let go is because there are those amongst the 17 who have threatened not to finance certain individual projects to round out the Mean Green Athletic Village. That. Is. Sad. Pathetic, even.

Agree!

Rick

Aldo · November 10, 2015

That would be the university hiearchy demanding accountability by RV. Only that's not what Harry posted.
Harry posted....
..."Could they (University hierachy) do some things in terms of student fees and funding that could prevent us from having to play these types of games?"....
Thats Harry asking "why doesn't someone else do RV's job?".

Im sorry but that's two completely different things.

Rick

I understand what you're saying about his specific suggestion and it's an approach I disagree with (see my post at the bottom of page 1) but I am commenting on his general statement of:

but how about the rest of the University hierarchy? Should they not bare some of the responsibility? They don't seem to complain when the checks for these games are being cashed.

It's a history of apathy among university administrators that has trickled down to the fans.

We are where we are because no one cares enough. We are a minority of disgruntled fans because we are within a minority of people that care.

That's why RV gets a bonus. That's why Lee Jackson gets a bonus.

I want a bonus too, but I can't find 80 million dollars to lose. (did I throw enough topics together?)

TIgreen01 · November 10, 2015

So...you're advocating further weakening our schedule? I think that is what I'm reading. This is essentially what Boise and Hawaii did 10 years ago. They fought each other to have the lowest ranked strength of schedule every year. At the same time, they found ways to outspend everyone else in their own conference on quality coaching staffs. And they didn't screw up hiring. It's one thing to outspend everyone. It's another entirely to spend the money on the right people.

Doubling what we're spending is just throwing away twice as much money if you hire the wrong people.

I think you'll get the changes you all want. Pres Smatresk, by refusing the public backing of RV and eliminating the committee/consultant from the hiring process, very clearly places this hire on RV. Now, I think he's making a very big mistake by saying that he will be personally involved. If our big money donors are all behind RV, then he is by all intents and purposes untouchable. Until he owns one of these hires fully he will be protected from scrutiny to an extent.

I say back off, let RV pick the candidate and work out the basic pay scale. It's his hire to succeed or fail. Our MGC and season ticket numbers are a joke. What does 2 more years of losing do to them? If in 2017 we're looking at another failed hire, then RV's contract expires and we go another direction.

Edit--It's important to note, this strategy may knock me out as a season ticket holder. The remainder of my group has pretty much given up after 15 years. Not much is going to make them stand up, take notice and renew for another year after that Portland State game. RV should have been fired along with Mac immediately following that game. You CANNOT have the team quit at home like that. I was mercifully absent due to a family obligation, but the rest of my group was present for that debacle. The one thing you cannot do in sports is quit. The moment that happened heads needed to roll at multiple levels. I've stuck around this program since 1996. Had I witnessed that PSU game in person, I don't know that I would have ever been back.

Edited November 10, 2015 by TIgreen01

kj86 · November 10, 2015

What gets me is that the University hierarchy or administration or whatever you want to call them don't see the money that they are just flat out giving away by not insisting on a reasonable product on the field. You put 28,000 people in that place 6 days a year buying tickets, concessions, parking, t-shirts, etc. I don't know how much money that is, but it would damn sure give you enough to buy out a crappy coach if you had one you needed to get rid of. Why can't they see that?

FirefightnRick · November 10, 2015

What gets me is that the University hierarchy or administration or whatever you want to call them don't see the money that they are just flat out giving away by not insisting on a reasonable product on the field. You put 28,000 people in that place 6 days a year buying tickets, concessions, parking, t-shirts, etc. I don't know how much money that is, but it would damn sure give you enough to buy out a crappy coach if you had one you needed to get rid of. Why can't they see that?

Agree. Also, why can't they see the money flying out the window from poor contract negotiations. Over extending terms on coaches contracts resulting in large buyouts, overpaying FCS schools, getting under paid for P5 games. It's $200k here, $200k there. It doesn't take long for that to add up.

BTW...yours still is one of the best all time avatars.

Rick

The fan effect of late season paycheck games in a bad season

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