Stop Comparing Old Apples to Young Oranges

Mike Jackson · November 4, 2015

Please can start speaking truthfully about the hiring of Dan McCarney? Look I like him as much as the next Mean Green fan but let get a few things straight about him. He arrived at UNT with losing 56-85 overall and 27-68 conference record as head coach. That is losing anyway you slice it. Yes, Iowa State has the deck stacked against them in the Big 12. But you can say they same thing about all the other old Big 12 North Division programs outside of Nebraska and Missouri. Mac arrived with great fan fare and energy here and all Mean Green Fans appreciated that. But there was little substantive in his resume as a head coach that should have made us so optimistic. Mac has deep roots in the Big 10 Conference region and that is part of the reason he had some the success he did at Iowa State. Therefore, I think it is a huge mistake to dismiss the value of experience in Texas in favor of just a young hot up and comer with Texas ties. I for one want BOTH an experienced leader with hot shots under him. Instead of Kendall Briles we need to be looking for our 'Art Briles'. And if our Art Briles leaves us we may end up promoting our 'Gary Patterson' from the staff he leaves behind. (If you are not following me look up Patterson's history at TCU). TCU had long journey getting back into the mix with the other big programs in the state and our journey will be even more difficult. I held my peace before and after McCarney was hired, I won't do that this time. Bring a coach under the age of 35 in this toxic situation is just a recipe for failure. So if we hire a 30-ish or younger bright star don't be surprised if it is another Dodge like situation 3 years from now.

NT93 · November 4, 2015

Mac was sold to this fan base as a guy who can take a moribund program and turn it into a winner due to his "success" at Iowa St and subsequent success with the Florida program. We both agree that he was not a winner, but that doesn't change the fact that he was presented to this fan base as a winner. As a matter of fact, I heard somewhere that he won a National Championship at Florida. I think he even has a ring. lol

Dr. Seuss · November 4, 2015

Please can start speaking truthfully about the hiring of Dan McCarney? Look I like him as much as the next Mean Green fan but let get a few things straight about him. He arrived at UNT with losing 56-85 overall and 27-68 conference record as head coach. That is losing anyway you slice it. Yes, Iowa State has the deck stacked against them in the Big 12. But you can say they same thing about all the other old Big 12 North Division programs outside of Nebraska and Missouri. Mac arrived with great fan fare and energy here and all Mean Green Fans appreciated that. But there was little substantive in his resume as a head coach that should have made us so optimistic. Mac has deep roots in the Big 10 Conference region and that is part of the reason he had some the success he did at Iowa State. Therefore, I think it is a huge mistake to dismiss the value of experience in Texas in favor of just a young hot up and comer with Texas ties. I for one want BOTH an experienced leader with hot shots under him. Instead of Kendall Briles we need to be looking for our 'Art Briles'. And if our Art Briles leaves us we may end up promoting our 'Gary Patterson' from the staff he leaves behind. (If you are not following me look up Patterson's history at TCU). TCU had long journey getting back into the mix with the other big programs in the state and our journey will be even more difficult. I held my peace before and after McCarney was hired, I won't do that this time. Bring a coach under the age of 35 in this toxic situation is just a recipe for failure. So if we hire a 30-ish or younger bright star don't be surprised if it is another Dodge like situation 3 years from now.

And I want Nick Saban to come coach at UNT...

UNT isn't in a position to for that kind of head coach. Art Briles was the head coach at UH, a program that had one losing season in 5 years during his tenure. We have one winning season in 11 years. The head coach you're trying to get is Justin Fuente from Memphis and guess what.. He's not coming here.

You need to reword your title and start comparing apples to apple and lets compare 2015 UNT to 2012 Memphis.

Lets go back to 2012, Memphis wasn't good, they were the laughing stock of CUSA with very little football history.

Heres a list of Memphis' bowl games:

Date	Bowl	Opponent	Result	Score
November 22, 1956	Burley Bowl	East Tennessee State	W	32–12
December 18, 1971	Pasadena Bowl	San Jose State	W	28–9
December 16, 2003	New Orleans Bowl	North Texas	W	27–17
December 22, 2004	GMAC Bowl	Bowling Green	L	52–35
December 26, 2005	Motor City Bowl	Akron	W	38–31
December 21, 2007	New Orleans Bowl	Florida Atlantic	L	44–27
December 20, 2008	St. Petersburg Bowl	South Florida	L	41–14

Heres a list of UNT bowl games:

Date	Bowl	W/L	Opponent	PF	PA
January 1, 1948	Salad	L	Nevada	6	13
December 31, 1959	Sun	L	New Mexico State	8	28
December 18, 2001	New Orleans	L	Colorado State	20	45
December 17, 2002	New Orleans	W	Cincinnati	24	19
December 16, 2003	New Orleans	L	Memphis	17	27
December 14, 2004	New Orleans	L	Southern Miss	10	31
January 1, 2014	Heart of Dallas	W	UNLV	36	14

These two schools are pretty similar in regards to post season play. UNT has a better record overall but I'm using post season play because thats what we play for.

I think we can agree that this is a good comparison?

Memphis hired Justin Fuente, a 35 year old Co-OC from TCU who was under Patterson for 5 years and before that he was at an FCS school for 5 years. Hey, you know all about TCU's history so theres no need to talk about Justin Fuente's resume... If others would like I would happily do it. Memphis wasn't in a position to hire an "experienced leader with hot shots under him" Guys you're talking about at that time are like Rich Rod from Arizona or Freeze from Ole Miss. They did the realistic thing and hired a young up-incoming OC to lead them.

UNT needs to do the exact same thing Memphis did and hire that same kind of coach. There are plenty of names out there, we just have to find one that will lead us to the promise land.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Dr. Seuss

HarringtonFishSmeller · November 4, 2015

Memphis was terrible, underfunding the program, and in a ghetto. There were about zero positives about taking the Memphis job when Fuente did. The only thing is, "Hey...I can prove my stripes, maybe, and then move up to a money program."

The hype of an assistant or head coach can burn hot for a season or two, then drop out of sight. These young guys need to get out and prove their spurs...or, they get the Applewhite/Heupel treatment the moment one season goes wrong for their head coach.

When trouble hit Texas and Oklahoma, Mack pitched Applewhite overboard; Stoops did the same to Heupel.

Nothing good lasts forever in coaching. These young guys have got to get a job while their star is rising...or, it could pass them by forever. Fuente did it. The gamble, on his part, was low. Fail at Memphis...would have been chalked up in the coaching world as, "Meh, it's Memphis...come be my OC, brother."

It'll be the same for whomever we hire. Not really a huge career risk for them. Tremendous upside, very low downside.

As far a McCarney, he got us to a bowl. We've been to very few. He and Canales screwed the pooch on QB recruiting and development. It is what it is.

QBs and coaches generally get too much credit when they win and too much blame when they lose. But, when either win or losses pile up in one direction or the other, you can call church on the situation pretty easily.

No way in Mac's fifth season should we have been as bad as we were at the beginning of Dodge's tenure. No way. The bowl was a welcome reprieve from many losing season; but, it ended up being a mirage. A mirage that left us with sand and camel piss in our mouths.

Mike Jackson · November 4, 2015

And I want Nick Saban to come coach at UNT...
UNT isn't in a position to for that kind of head coach. Art Briles was the head coach at UH, a program that had one losing season in 5 years during his tenure. We have one winning season in 11 years. The head coach you're trying to get is Justin Fuente from Memphis and guess what.. He's not coming here.
You need to reword your title and start comparing apples to apple and lets compare 2015 UNT to 2012 Memphis.
Lets go back to 2012, Memphis wasn't good, they were the laughing stock of CUSA with very little football history.
Heres a list of Memphis' bowl games:
Date Bowl Opponent Result Score
November 22, 1956 Burley Bowl East Tennessee State W 32–12
December 18, 1971 Pasadena Bowl San Jose State W 28–9
December 16, 2003 New Orleans Bowl North Texas W 27–17
December 22, 2004 GMAC Bowl Bowling Green L 52–35
December 26, 2005 Motor City Bowl Akron W 38–31
December 21, 2007 New Orleans Bowl Florida Atlantic L 44–27
December 20, 2008 St. Petersburg Bowl South Florida L 41–14

Heres a list of UNT bowl games:
Date Bowl W/L Opponent PF PA
January 1, 1948 Salad L Nevada 6 13
December 31, 1959 Sun L New Mexico State 8 28
December 18, 2001 New Orleans L Colorado State 20 45
December 17, 2002 New Orleans W Cincinnati 24 19
December 16, 2003 New Orleans L Memphis 17 27
December 14, 2004 New Orleans L Southern Miss 10 31
January 1, 2014 Heart of Dallas W UNLV 36 14

These two schools are pretty similar in regards to post season play. UNT has a better record overall but I'm using post season play because thats what we play for.
I think we can agree that this is a good comparison?
Memphis hired Justin Fuente, a 35 year old Co-OC from TCU who was under Patterson for 5 years and before that he was at an FCS school for 5 years. Hey, you know all about TCU's history so theres no need to talk about Justin Fuente's resume... If others would like I would happily do it. Memphis wasn't in a position to hire an "experienced leader with hot shots under him" Guys you're talking about at that time are like Rich Rod from Arizona or Freeze from Ole Miss. They did the realistic thing and hired a young up-incoming OC to lead them.

UNT needs to do the exact same thing Memphis did and hire that same kind of coach. There are plenty of names out there, we just have to find one that will lead us to the promise land.

That is all fine and good. The comparison you presented is fine until you ask these questions:

1. How many professional sport franchises are Memphis competing with for fan attention in their metro area?

2. How many FBS programs that play in better conferences than them are within 45 miles of thier campus with better name recognition and history of success than their program?

3. How many in state FBS level rivals do they have?

4. CUSA when Memphis was in it was better conference that it is now.

5. The American Conference is better that CUSA

Art Briles is not even close to Saban (today or even 2015 Briles if you compare him what Saban was 15 years ago) but Art Briles was sought after no doubt. The Baylor job at the time he took it wasn't a highly desired position because at the time you had OU, UT, and Texas A&M as road blocks in between the program and any big success. (BTW everyone should know that if Mack could have recruited a QB to replace McCoy effectively and Texas A&M doesn't bolt for the SEC we probably aren't talking about Art Briles the way we are now). The UNT is position is more challenging in my assessment than the Memphis job. And the gap between the desiraility gap between the 2007 Baylor job and the 2016 UNT is not as great as you may think it is. The real gap is money. (Memphis has more money than UNT also). And that is directly realated to the fundamental problem here and that is AD ineptness and by consequence fan apathy. You know the programs that share a lot of the challenges that UNT faces? UCF, FAU, FIU, and South Florida. So I still stand by my template as reasonable and the most likely way UNT can climb out of the pit it is in. Looking at the track record of UNT I think it is absolutely foolish be more than 15% confident that a 35 year old who has never been at struggling program is going to turn this mess around. Most likely we are going to get another Todd Dodge like situation. Yes, the coach probably get 2 more win a year than Dodge did, due to having some college experience but I don't see great success happening. And if he does have better success than I expected get ready for him to bolt and UNT return to square one. In my scenerio the young OC gets a chance to grow into head coach before the mentor leaves.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Mike Jackson

Dr. Seuss · November 4, 2015

"All fine and good but who is Memphis really competing with in the state of Kentucky"
That is all fine and good. The comparison you presented is fine until you ask these questions:
1. How many professional sport franchises are Memphis competing with for fan attention in their metro area?
2. How many FBS programs that play in better conferences than them are within 45 miles of thier campus with better name recognition and history of success than their program?
3. How many in state FBS level rivals do they have?
4. CUSA when Memphis was in it was better conference that it is now.
5. The American Conference is better that CUSA
Art Briles is not even close to Saban (today or even 2015 Briles if you compare him what Saban was 15 years ago) but Art Briles was sought after no doubt. The Baylor job at the time he took it wasn't a highly desired position because at the time you had OU, UT, and Texas A&M as road blocks in between the program and any big success. (BTW everyone should know that if Mack could have recruited a QB to replace McCoy effectively and Texas A&M doesn't bolt for the SEC we probably aren't talking about Art Briles the way we are now). The UNT is position is more challenging in my assessment than the Memphis job. And the gap between the desiraility gap between the 2007 Baylor job and the 2016 UNT is not as great as you may think it is. The real gap is money. (Memphis has more money than UNT also). And that is directly realated to the fundamental problem here and that is AD ineptness and by consequence fan apathy. You know the programs that share a lot of the challenges that UNT faces? UCF, FAU, FIU, and South Florida. So I still stand by my template as reasonable and the most likely way UNT can climb out of the pit it is in. Looking at the track record of UNT I think it is absolutely foolish be more than 15% confident that a 35 year old who has never been at struggling program is going to turn this mess around. Most likely we are going to get another Todd Dodge like situation. Yes, the coach probably get 2 more win a year than Dodge did, due to having some college experience but I don't see great success happening. And if he does have better success than I expected get ready for him to bolt and UNT return to square one. In my scenerio the young OC gets a chance to grow into head coach before the mentor leaves.

"All fine and good but who is Memphis really competing with in the state of Kentucky"

Memphis is in Tennessee, not Kentucky...

1. How many professional sport franchises are Memphis competing with for fan attention in their metro area?

This has nothing to do with hiring a college head coach.

2. How many FBS programs that play in better conferences than them are within 45 miles of thier campus with better name recognition and history of success than their program?

You're talking about Memphis not the DFW.. apple and oranges

3. How many in state FBS level rivals do they have?

None- same as us. You can throw Ole Miss, Louisville, Cincy in there.

4. CUSA when Memphis was in it was better conference that it is now.

Memphis is a basketball school, not a football school. They weren't good before Fuente got there. The only reason why Memphis moved to the AAC is because of its basketball program

5. The American Conference is better that CUSA

AAC and CUSA are both G5 schools.

I don't know who's more stubborn, you or Mac.. At least Mac has experience in this field to be stubborn while you don't. Guess what, neither do I but at least I'm realistic.

I have no idea I'm even wasting my time talking to you.. You wanted Brady Hoke/ Turner Gill/ Mark Mangino....

Edited November 4, 2015 by Dr. Seuss

Mike Jackson · November 5, 2015

"All fine and good but who is Memphis really competing with in the state of Kentucky"
Memphis is in Tennessee, not Kentucky...
1. How many professional sport franchises are Memphis competing with for fan attention in their metro area?
This has nothing to do with hiring a college head coach.
2. How many FBS programs that play in better conferences than them are within 45 miles of thier campus with better name recognition and history of success than their program?
You're talking about Memphis not the DFW.. apple and oranges
3. How many in state FBS level rivals do they have?
None- same as us. You can throw Ole Miss, Louisville, Cincy in there.
4. CUSA when Memphis was in it was better conference that it is now.
Memphis is a basketball school, not a football school. They weren't good before Fuente got there. The only reason why Memphis moved to the AAC is because of its basketball program
5. The American Conference is better that CUSA
AAC and CUSA are both G5 schools.

I don't know who's more stubborn, you or Mac.. At least Mac has experience in this field to be stubborn while you don't. Guess what, neither do I but at least I'm realistic.
I have no idea I'm even wasting my time talking to you.. You wanted Brady Hoke/ Turner Gill/ Mark Mangino....

1. You are quite naive if you think that doesn't have an impact on the money available to hire coach. Alumni and fans with money committed to professional sport franchises have less money and patience to deal with a losing college team. When you are one of the very few sport entertainment options in your market it makes a huge difference. There a lot of big Universities in big cities but only 2 in the whole country have won big in the last 35 years and one of them did not have to compete with a NFL team in their city for fans when they did. Miami

2. The answer is they DON'T which is why again UNT is the more difficult positions.

3. When I said rivals I meant school in the state they have to compete with or get the leftovers recruits from in state. (by the way I tired to delete Kentucky from my comment before I posted it, I know exactly where Memphis is and I have been there a couple of times)

4. CUSA is was a better conference so I don't know what your comment about basketball and the ACC have to do with anything.

5. The ACC is a Power 5 Conference. It might be the weakest of the 5 but their champion still has a guaranteed slot in the Old Traditional New Year's Six Bowl Games, CUSA does not.

Side question, what is your promise land? Second place in the division and another HOD Bowl? Because I guarantee you that if this young hot coach puts together two mediocre winning seasons and bowl game win together he is gone. Say what you will about RV but part of the reason he got away with giving Dan Mac a raise was the fact that many were justly paranoid Mac would bolt for a better job. Even though I heard no reports of better programs sniffing around to see if he was interested.

PS: Never wanted Brady Hoke. Absolutely scoffed at Mangino. And I was only curious about Turner Gil. So don't insult me like that please.

It's not realistic to believe than anyone inexperienced will be a success at a program that no else has had success at. Memphis was an easier position, in a better conference with a more competitive revenue package available (relative to their conference and regional rivals) than we will have from day one and I don't know why you are disputing that.

UNT is a uniquely hard job and I don't think you and everyone else clamoring for young hot shots acknowledge that.

Dr. Seuss · November 5, 2015

1. You are quite naive if you think that doesn't have an impact on the money available to hire coach. Alumni and fans with money committed to professional sport franchises have less money and patience to deal with a losing college team. When you are one of the very few sport entertainment options in your market it makes a huge difference. There a lot of big Universities in big cities but only 2 in the whole country have won big in the last 35 years and one of them did not have to compete with a NFL team in their city for fans when they did. Miami
2. The answer is they DON'T which is why again UNT is the more difficult positions.
3. When I said rivals I meant school in the state they have to compete with or get the leftovers recruits from in state. (by the way I tired to delete Kentucky from my comment before I posted it, I know exactly where Memphis is and I have been there a couple of times)
4. CUSA is was a better conference so I don't know what your comment about basketball and the ACC have to do with anything.
5. The ACC is a Power 5 Conference. It might be the weakest of the 5 but their champion still has a guaranteed slot in the Old Traditional New Year's Six Bowl Games, CUSA does not.
Side question, what is your promise land? Second place in the division and another HOD Bowl? Because I guarantee you that if this young hot coach puts together two mediocre winning seasons and bowl game win together he is gone. Say what you will about RV but part of the reason he got away with giving Dan Mac a raise was the fact that many were justly paranoid Mac would bolt for a better job. Even though I heard no reports of better programs sniffing around to see if he was interested.
PS: Never wanted Brady Hoke. Absolutely scoffed at Mangino. And I was only curious about Turner Gil. So don't insult me like that please.
It's not realistic to believe than anyone inexperienced will be a success at a program that no else has had success at. Memphis was an easier position, in a better conference with a more competitive revenue package available (relative to their conference and regional rivals) than we will have from day one and I don't know why you are disputing that.
UNT is a uniquely hard job and I don't think you and everyone else clamoring for young hot shots acknowledge that.

2) The DFW has over 6.5 million people while Memphis has 1.3. Again, lets compare apple to apple, you can't compare how many schools are in the DFW to Memphis.

3) Your answer means nothing, look at their roster, they have players from all over. They have players from all over because the talent level in the state isn't what it is in Texas. I don't know where you're going with that.

4) Yes, CUSA was a better conference back in 2012 but they were the worse team in the conference. The three years before Fuente got there they went 5-31.

5) Memphis is in the AAC, not the ACC. The AAC is a G5 school while the ACC is a P5 school. That's why you don't see Memphis playing Clemson, FSU... They play ECU, Houston...

I want us to be like Memphis in 4 years, that's what any UNT fan should want. Play a ranked Ole Miss team at home who beat Alabama a couple week before and WIN. I want UNT to be able to recruit against Houston. I would be happy if our HC gets another job, that's what you want. That means you had a great hire, we've never had that type of issue in the past 30 years.

Where do you get your information?? Is this all in your head? No one was parinoid that Mac was going to bolt.

"It's not realistic to believe than anyone inexperienced will be a success at a program that no else has had success at."

You still haven't answered my question. Give me some names that you want to see. All I remember you saying were the 3 guys listed above.

"UNT is a uniquely hard job and I don't think you and everyone else clamoring for young hot shots acknowledge that."

I understand UNT quite well. There's a reason why UNT is going after the young up-incoming coaches. You're in the minority and don't seem to understand it.

Mike Jackson · November 6, 2015

2) The DFW has over 6.5 million people while Memphis has 1.3. Again, lets compare apple to apple, you can't compare how many schools are in the DFW to Memphis.
3) Your answer means nothing, look at their roster, they have players from all over. They have players from all over because the talent level in the state isn't what it is in Texas. I don't know where you're going with that.
4) Yes, CUSA was a better conference back in 2012 but they were the worse team in the conference. The three years before Fuente got there they went 5-31.
5) Memphis is in the AAC, not the ACC. The AAC is a G5 school while the ACC is a P5 school. That's why you don't see Memphis playing Clemson, FSU... They play ECU, Houston...

I want us to be like Memphis in 4 years, that's what any UNT fan should want. Play a ranked Ole Miss team at home who beat Alabama a couple week before and WIN. I want UNT to be able to recruit against Houston. I would be happy if our HC gets another job, that's what you want. That means you had a great hire, we've never had that type of issue in the past 30 years.
Where do you get your information?? Is this all in your head? No one was parinoid that Mac was going to bolt.
"It's not realistic to believe than anyone inexperienced will be a success at a program that no else has had success at."
You still haven't answered my question. Give me some names that you want to see. All I remember you saying were the 3 guys listed above.
"UNT is a uniquely hard job and I don't think you and everyone else clamoring for young hot shots acknowledge that."
I understand UNT quite well. There's a reason why UNT is going after the young up-incoming coaches. You're in the minority and don't seem to understand it.

In state competition for recruits is very important. A lot of parent would like their child to stay in state just for peace of mind. And others just because if their scholarship is reduced or lost for any reason that allows them to be a regular student, in-state tuition is more affordable. Memphis for the reasons you already cited isn't a good case model for UNT.

Paranoid over Mac Leaving: I believe RV convinced the administration that Mac leaving was a real possibility and that why he was allowed to give him that extension. UNT's track record made it an easier sell for RV to get that extension done. I don't recall anyone at the time being paranoid either but I don't recall the move being criticized either.

Names: I have none that we could get that I would have any faith in turning the program around with RV as their boss. I would like to have Mack Brown as dual AD & HC for 3 years grooming someone like Kendal Briles. All the young guy candidates make sense with competent boss and without a pissed off fanbase that has plenty of other really good local sport entertainment options to spend their money on.

There maybe as many as 5,000 to 10,000 people with direct connections to UNT/Denton at any given TCU home game. That is a huge problem

I might be in the minority but that doesn't mean I am wrong. I believe I was in the minority that really didn't want Mac. A significant minority and I, wanted Canales but I still believe we were a minority.

I maybe in the minority on this forum however the vast majority of casual fans this program needs are not going to be impressed with young guy names thrown around here except maybe Briles. But that will only because they recognize his last name than they know anything about him. I am firmly of the opinion that mediocrity is the ceiling for this program regardless of who RV brings in (unless be brings a name so huge it shocks everyone).

Edited November 6, 2015 by Mike Jackson

Ben Gooding · November 6, 2015

Mediocrity is not the ceiling for UNT. UNT can compete for the G5 big 6 bowl bid much like UCF two years ago. We have to get a better AD and we need a coach that can recruit. We need to be at 1.5M base and roll with it. Add in contract clauses for potential buyouts and if a coach doesn't like it to hell with him. Find someone that isn't going to come here to collect, but will come here and drive this team to success during the season and during summer and post season recruiting.

I would even go further and throw in incentives for BA recruiting classes. 10+ 3 stars = X dollars divided into coaching staff. Top 300 player = X dollars divided into recruiting class. Make it worth their while to bust their asses on the recruiting trail. Of course, if this is legal.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Ben Gooding

Dr. Seuss · November 6, 2015

In state competition for recruits is very important. A lot of parent would like their child to stay in state just for peace of mind. And others just because if their scholarship is reduced or lost for any reason that allows them to be a regular student, in-state tuition is more affordable. Memphis for the reasons you already cited isn't a good case model for UNT.
Tell me how I said Memphis isn't a good case model for UNT, please use quotes from my post.
Paranoid over Mac Leaving: I believe RV convinced the administration that Mac leaving was a real possibility and that why he was allowed to give him that extension. UNT's track record made it an easier sell for RV to get that extension done. I don't recall anyone at the time being paranoid either but I don't recall the move being criticized either.
Buying out a coaches contract is normal when you fire a HC, it happens all the time. I know people and myself on the board thought that a 7 year deal is pretty long (2 years remaining plus the 5 year extension). Thinking this might bite us in the ass but guess what, we're on cloud 9 right now and it might have been a little irrational looking back on it. No one is perfect.

Names: I have none that we could get that I would have any faith in turning the program around with RV as their boss. I would like to have Mack Brown as dual AD & HC for 3 years grooming someone like Kendal Briles. All the young guy candidates make sense with competent boss and without a pissed off fanbase that has plenty of other really good local sport entertainment options to spend their money on.
Thats an unrealistic senario. Why would Kendal Briles leave Baylor to become the OC at UNT under Mack Brown? Please tell me why, it would be a good move for Briles to come to UNT as an OC. How many AD's are the HC? I only know of one off the top of my head and thats O'Leary from UCF. That just doesn't happen anymore, theres too much money in college football to have one guy run a football program and an entire athletic program. I'm sure you think all of the social media billionaires are too young and they need more grooming....
There maybe as many as 5,000 to 10,000 people with direct connections to UNT/Denton at any given TCU home game. That is a huge problem
Fans want to see wins, of course they go there.. I don't see the point, you're just talking to talk.
I might be in the minority but that doesn't mean I am wrong. I believe I was in the minority that really didn't want Mac. A significant minority and I, wanted Canales but I still believe we were a minority.
I don't think you were in the minority with Chico, a lot of people wanted Chico. No one even knew who Mac was. Everyone saw his W-L record and was pretty confused. Then we heard his press conference and he sold us. I won't lie, I bought in right from the beginning, I was confused but I bought in.
Where are you getting this from? You've been on the board since April... How do you know what the fans wanted? I'm not saying that all of the UNT fans are on this board but lots of them are.
I maybe in the minority on this forum however the vast majority of casual fans this program needs are not going to be impressed with young guy names thrown around here except maybe Briles. But that will only because they recognize his last name than they know anything about him. I am firmly of the opinion that mediocrity is the ceiling for this program regardless of who RV brings in (unless be brings a name so huge it shocks everyone).
That first sentence is complete BS and Briles isn't coming here. I will agree with you on your last sentence. I also believe RV should be fired and if he does make the hire in which I've heard two different sides to this from people I don't think I'll be impressed.

Mediocrity is not the ceiling for UNT. UNT can compete for the G5 big 6 bowl bid much like UCF two years ago. We have to get a better AD and we need a coach that can recruit. We need to be at 1.5M base and roll with it. Add in contract clauses for potential buyouts and if a coach doesn't like it to hell with him. Find someone that isn't going to come here to collect, but will come here and drive this team to success during the season and during summer and post season recruiting.
I would even go further and throw in incentives for BA recruiting classes. 10+ 3 stars = X dollars divided into coaching staff. Top 300 player = X dollars divided into recruiting class. Make it worth their while to bust their asses on the recruiting trail. Of course, if this is legal.

He's talking about if RV is still in charge

NTXCoog · November 6, 2015

Please can start speaking truthfully about the hiring of Dan McCarney? Look I like him as much as the next Mean Green fan but let get a few things straight about him. He arrived at UNT with losing 56-85 overall and 27-68 conference record as head coach. That is losing anyway you slice it. Yes, Iowa State has the deck stacked against them in the Big 12. But you can say they same thing about all the other old Big 12 North Division programs outside of Nebraska and Missouri. Mac arrived with great fan fare and energy here and all Mean Green Fans appreciated that. But there was little substantive in his resume as a head coach that should have made us so optimistic. Mac has deep roots in the Big 10 Conference region and that is part of the reason he had some the success he did at Iowa State. Therefore, I think it is a huge mistake to dismiss the value of experience in Texas in favor of just a young hot up and comer with Texas ties. I for one want BOTH an experienced leader with hot shots under him. Instead of Kendall Briles we need to be looking for our 'Art Briles'. And if our Art Briles leaves us we may end up promoting our 'Gary Patterson' from the staff he leaves behind. (If you are not following me look up Patterson's history at TCU). TCU had long journey getting back into the mix with the other big programs in the state and our journey will be even more difficult. I held my peace before and after McCarney was hired, I won't do that this time. Bring a coach under the age of 35 in this toxic situation is just a recipe for failure. So if we hire a 30-ish or younger bright star don't be surprised if it is another Dodge like situation 3 years from now.

When UH hired Briles, he was a RB coach for a couple of years at the college level and was most known as a high school coach. Houston took a flyer on him because he came cheap and played football there. It worked out pretty well for both UH and Briles, but it was definitely no guarantee of success.

Mike Jackson · November 7, 2015

I maybe in the minority on this forum however the vast majority of casual fans this program needs are not going to be impressed with young guy names thrown around here except maybe Briles. But that will only because they recognize his last name than they know anything about him. I am firmly of the opinion that mediocrity is the ceiling for this program regardless of who RV brings in (unless be brings a name so huge it shocks everyone).
That first sentence is complete BS and Briles isn't coming here. I will agree with you on your last sentence. I also believe RV should be fired and if he does make the hire in which I've heard two different sides to this from people I don't think I'll be impressed.

He's talking about if RV is still in charge

I think we agree on more that you think we do. However, I know Briles isn't coming here but than doesn't make the first part of that sentence BS. UNT needs casual fans to help turn the corner, especially if RV is here going into 2017. I know it won't happen but I presenting the only hypothetical scenario that would allow a coach to succeed here. We know right now that his first recruiting class we be garbage. And unless he is a genius and shocks the world he will be inviting recruits to an empty Apogee stadium in the 2017. I am not sure you could get 24k in Apogee if you gave out 10k free tickets to Denton residents. I am well aware that the 'sexy names' we need to attract fans aren't coming here. Forgive me but I am just going through the stages of mourning. This is the grasping at straws denial stage cause I don't want to accept the fact we won't have a competitive (over 2 season or more) football time until I am eligible for social security.