Why the UNT HC salary range is a reflection of our ambition

Harry · October 30, 2015

There is a lot of talk about the amount of compensation that we will pay for this next coaching hire and I truly think it is so important that it's worth a separate thread.

You don't have to set an exact, pin point amount because you need to range it based on the candidate, their level of experience etc. I get that.

But you do need to up that range significantly from where it is now. Why? If our goal is to be the top of C-USA, then our salary does not need to be a lot higher than what it is now. We are already sitting at the 2-3 spot as it is.

I want to see the bar raised higher. I don't just want to be at the top of C-USA. I want to be one of the best G5 programs in the country and ultimately be positioned to join the P5 ranks. Is that a lofty goal? Absolutely. UNT needs capture the passion of our alumni, student and fans. You can do this by raising the bar beyond "normal" expectations.

Some will say, "that's great Harry but we don't have the money or the budget to do this.." My response to this is, if it is IMPORTANT enough we sure as hell do. I would argue that doing things half assed get you where you are today, a failed coaching regime with a big buyout, empty stadiums, low season ticket sales and Mean Green club memberships. We have a small but loyal core group of supporters. How can we get to the ones who are either sitting on the fence or completely out of the picture altogether?

The money we invest in this hire helps erase much of the doubt and negativity surrounding this program. It says our administration believes we can be successful and is willing to put their money and resources behind it. It is a very important statement that needs to be made!

I also think there are many other areas that would pay tremendous dividends - enrollment will grow with a good football program, you will be able to attract more donors, you attract more positive media coverage which is a free advertisement.

Rick Gosselin brought up a very valid point when he mentioned we need to hire Todd Dodge part 2. There were aspects of the Dodge hire that captured the imagination of our fanbase and the local media. We/Dodge just didn't execute it they way it needed to be executed. The funding we supplied for that Dodge hire was woefully short of what was required to put together a solid staff. In hindsight, Dan McCarney was a very Safe hire and provided very little boost other than 2013 and the bowl. We have a chance to do this right this time!

When we hired Dodge we basically had one major donor which was Mattress Mac who gave us 1 million dollars. Now we have multiple big dollar donors who can influence the financial aspect of this hire in a very positive way.

UNT can send a very clear message to the marketplace that we mean business this time. If they do this - and I really think and hope they will - - I think it will prove to be one of the best investments they have ever made because they could make back 10 times+ the investment in a short period of time. gmg

Edited October 30, 2015 by Harry

Eagle-96 · October 30, 2015

There is a lot of talk about the amount of compensation that we will pay for this next coaching hire and I truly think it is so important that it's worth a separate thread.
You don't have to set an exact, pin point amount because you need to range it based on the candidate, their level of experience etc. I get that.
But you do need to up that range significantly from where it is now. Why? If our goal is to be the top of C-USA, then our salary does not need to be a lot higher than what it is now. We are already sitting at the 2-3 spot as it is.
I want to see the bar raised higher. I don't just want to be at the top of C-USA. I want to be one of the best G5 programs in the country and ultimately be positioned to join the P5 ranks. Is that a lofty goal? Absolutely. UNT needs capture the passion of our alumni, student and fans. You can do this by raising the bar beyond "normal" expectations.
Some will say, "that's great Harry but we don't have the money or the budget to do this.." My response to this is, if it is IMPORTANT enough we sure as hell do. I would argue that doing things half assed get you where you are today, a failed coaching regime with a big buyout, empty stadiums, low season ticket sales and Mean Green club memberships. We have a small but loyal core group of supporters. How can we get to the ones who are either sitting on the fence or completely out of the picture altogether?
I also think there are many other areas that would pay tremendous dividends - enrollment will grow with a good football program, you will be able to attract more donors, you attract more positive media coverage which is a free advertisement.
Rick Gosselin brought up a very valid point when he mentioned we need to hire Todd Dodge part 2. There were aspects of the Dodge hire that captured the imagination of our fanbase and the local media. We/Dodge just didn't execute it they way it needed to be executed. The funding we supplied for that Dodge hire was woefully short of what was required to put together a solid staff. In hindsight, Dan McCarney was a very Safe hire and provided very little boost other than 2013 and the bowl. We have a chance to do this right this time!
When we hired Dodge we basically had one major donor which was Mattress Mac who gave us 1 million dollars. Now we have multiple big dollar donors who can influence the financial aspect of this hire in a very positive way.
UNT can send a very clear message to the marketplace that we mean business this time. If they do this - and I really think and hope they will - - I think it will prove to be one of the best investments they have ever made because they could make back 10 times+ the investment in a short period of time. gmg

most important part of the post.

foutsrouts · October 30, 2015

Yes, we are now at a crucial juncture. Dodge could have been a major winner here, but it was just not to be. There was an overall uptick in enthusiasm for the program when he arrived, and we didn't take advantage of it by not bringing in the supporting cast that we needed for success. The next guy needs to be the complete package. I'm anxiously awaiting the pared down list of those who are interested in this feast or famine opportunity.

GrandGreen · October 30, 2015

Money does not buy success, it only increases the odd of obtaining it. Unless NT really wants and can afford to make a big statement like at least $1,000,000 more in the football coaching staff compensation, I doubt it will significantly increase the odds of signing the right head coach.

Hunter Green · October 30, 2015

Harry, you are 100% spot on. There is no reason UNT cannot position itself to become a P5 member. All it takes is a commitment and to make it a goal to achieve within five years. Rally the troops! Make it happen!

GO MEAN GREEN!

rcade · October 30, 2015

Money does not buy success, it only increases the odd of obtaining it. Unless NT really wants and can afford to make a big statement like at least $1,000,000 more in the football coaching staff compensation, I doubt it will significantly increase the odds of signing the right head coach.

McCarney had the fourth-best salary in CUSA. Even if we don't increase the head coach's pay, our salary is not an excuse for being stomped in our conference. It's good enough with our other advantages for us to compete for the championship on a consistent basis.

Ben Gooding · October 30, 2015

I agree, but with "our" hiring track record we are just asking for trouble in about 3 years from right now.

But, money does talk. How big a contract are you talking @Harry?

Harry · October 30, 2015

McCarney had the fourth-best salary in CUSA. Even if we don't increase the head coach's pay, our salary is not an excuse for being stomped in our conference. It's good enough with our other advantages for us to compete for the championship on a consistent basis.

The #2 that I keep hearing is taking into account the assistant salary pool. Keep in mind both coordinator positions were boosted when the did Mac's contract extension.

I'm not saying it is an excuse for performance. I am saying that boosting the pay would put us into a pool of HC candidates with better credentials/potential. My goal is to get the very best coach we can. Anything we can do to increase the odds of that is a good thing. Your head football coach is the most visible and representative face of your University.

I agree, but with "our" hiring track record we are just asking for trouble in about 3 years from right now.
But, money does talk. How big a contract are you talking @Harry?

I've stated I think the contract could be in the 900K to 1.5 million range based on the credentials of the candidate. Look at the University of Houston. Tom Hermann was making $550K at Ohio State as an assistant. Houston is paying him $1.35 million and equal to that in incentives... Houston is not that much different than we are if you look at their location, size, academics etc. Houston made a statement with the Hermann hire. They said, we don't just want to compete in the AAC, we want to compete with the P5. You also have to factor in assistant salaries when you make a hire because you cannot skimp on those or you will pay the price.

Some will say having the high end of the range as 1.5 is crazy and maybe it is. But, look at this another way -- right down the road, Chad Morris is pulling down $2.5 million and Gary Patterson is making $3.5 million a year and I don't even think that includes incentives! Yes these schools have more money at their disposal but at some point you have to make a statement as a University that you are truly committed to the football program. What better way to do that then by the compensation you put towards the position?

Edited October 30, 2015 by Harry

rcade · October 31, 2015

I'm not saying it is an excuse for performance. I am saying that boosting the pay would put us into a pool of HC candidates with better credentials/potential. My goal is to get the very best coach we can. Anything we can do to increase the odds of that is a good thing. Your head football coach is the most visible and representative face of your University.

I am in favor of UNT raising the head coach's salary if that can be accomplished. I just don't want to see the current salary level used as an excuse if we pay the next coach the same that McCarney was paid.

MeanMag · October 31, 2015

I am in favor of UNT raising the head coach's salary if that can be accomplished. I just don't want to see the current salary level used as an excuse if we pay the next coach the same that McCarney was paid.

Agreed. McCarney made more than 80% of the coaches he coached against in a given season.

Edited October 31, 2015 by MeanMag

Green Lantern · October 31, 2015

There is a lot of talk about the amount of compensation that we will pay for this next coaching hire and I truly think it is so important that it's worth a separate thread.
You don't have to set an exact, pin point amount because you need to range it based on the candidate, their level of experience etc. I get that.
But you do need to up that range significantly from where it is now. Why? If our goal is to be the top of C-USA, then our salary does not need to be a lot higher than what it is now. We are already sitting at the 2-3 spot as it is.
I want to see the bar raised higher. I don't just want to be at the top of C-USA. I want to be one of the best G5 programs in the country and ultimately be positioned to join the P5 ranks. Is that a lofty goal? Absolutely. UNT needs capture the passion of our alumni, student and fans. You can do this by raising the bar beyond "normal" expectations.
Some will say, "that's great Harry but we don't have the money or the budget to do this.." My response to this is, if it is IMPORTANT enough we sure as hell do. I would argue that doing things half assed get you where you are today, a failed coaching regime with a big buyout, empty stadiums, low season ticket sales and Mean Green club memberships. We have a small but loyal core group of supporters. How can we get to the ones who are either sitting on the fence or completely out of the picture altogether?
The money we invest in this hire helps erase much of the doubt and negativity surrounding this program. It says our administration believes we can be successful and is willing to put their money and resources behind it. It is a very important statement that needs to be made!
I also think there are many other areas that would pay tremendous dividends - enrollment will grow with a good football program, you will be able to attract more donors, you attract more positive media coverage which is a free advertisement.
Rick Gosselin brought up a very valid point when he mentioned we need to hire Todd Dodge part 2. There were aspects of the Dodge hire that captured the imagination of our fanbase and the local media. We/Dodge just didn't execute it they way it needed to be executed. The funding we supplied for that Dodge hire was woefully short of what was required to put together a solid staff. In hindsight, Dan McCarney was a very Safe hire and provided very little boost other than 2013 and the bowl. We have a chance to do this right this time!
When we hired Dodge we basically had one major donor which was Mattress Mac who gave us 1 million dollars. Now we have multiple big dollar donors who can influence the financial aspect of this hire in a very positive way.
UNT can send a very clear message to the marketplace that we mean business this time. If they do this - and I really think and hope they will - - I think it will prove to be one of the best investments they have ever made because they could make back 10 times+ the investment in a short period of time. gmg

wardly · October 31, 2015

Dodge was making about $85,000 at Southlake and we tripled it to about $250,000. There are not a lot of head coaches interested in a job at this salary.We tripled it again to about $750,000 for coach MAC. More coaches should have been interested in coming to UNT. Our next hire"[book it ,Dano]" will be in the $1,000,000 to $1,500,000 range. This will open us up to a level of prospects that in the past we could only dream about. I really believe that we are going to strike pay dirt this time around regardless of who does the hiring.

outoftown · October 31, 2015

A quick list of things that I think are a more indicative of UNTs ambition than the FB HC salary:

- the overall amount of the athletic budget.

- whether we keep consistently investing into facilities

- whether we start investing into the FB schedule, meaning that 5 home game seasons are a thing of the past, and putting money into this to improve the teams coming and make to opponent we visit in OOC better fits to success.

-Whether we are willing to get rid of the AD when things don't work out.

Other things that I think are at least equally indicative:

- the overall assistant coaches comp

- whether we raise the student contribution every year

-Whether we are truely investing in advertising to get butts into seats.

Some of these things we have been doing better than at others.

Generally I think the HCs salary is not all that important. It needs to be the right amount for the right guy. If we can't land an FBS HC or a power 5 coordinator, then there is no point in spending a million for a guy who was a FCS HC, spending that on facilities is smarter then. The guy can make a good living on only 600k. And paying more usually also means higher buyouts. At UNT we should have learnt that you need to be planning for those too.