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UNT football coach

wardly

By wardly
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DeepGreen Grand Master

DeepGreen

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I look at the job of UNT head football coach as a career killer. We have fired our last 8 hires. Granted that there are only 128 D1 positions available, but with our coaching track record and inheriting the worst program in D1 football who would want the job?

So what exactly are you saying wardly?   Drop back down to FCS, or eliminate the football program all together at North Texas?

And the NT job could be a career killer as long as we have RV making the hires.  To me, he's the root of the problem.  Coaches may want to shy away from the UNT job as long as RV is involved.

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NorthTexan95 Experienced

NorthTexan95

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It's definitely NOT the worst job in D1 ... no where near the worst.  Facilities and location are very good.  Pay is good.  I know our talent level is better than what we've seen but quarterback, inexperience, and coaching has left us winless.   I believe the right coach could bring in a quarterback (or coach up Smith) and win 5 or 6 games next season.  That doesn't mention that the coach would have time to rebuild with his own recruits with very low expectations for immediate results.

This is really an outstanding opportunity for any coach who'll put the work in.  

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ColoradoEagle Experienced

ColoradoEagle

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I look at the job of UNT head football coach as a career killer. We have fired our last 8 hires. Granted that there are only 128 D1 positions available, but with our coaching track record and inheriting the worst program in D1 football who would want the job?

This is the single best opportunity for a coach who isn't being considered for a P5 job. The facilities, school, and recruiting area are all top notch, and it doesn't take much to compete for a CUSA title. 

When talking about hires, there are really only 3 coaches to talk about, because that's the recent history. Dickey had very poor facilities and a bad conference to sell, plus he had health issues that ended his run. Todd Dodge was a bad hire, and in way over his head. Mac wasn't a bad hire, but I think his health issues and stubbornness kept him from being as successful as he should have been.

If you get someone in here who knows how to coach, can recruit at least to our level, and puts everything they have into it, then we're in the CUSA championship game.

Edited by ColoradoEagle
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GrandGreen Grand Master

GrandGreen

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Is it really a career killer, based on the facts I think that is far from true.

Start after Fry, who certainly did alright here and parlayed it into a legendary stint at Iowa.  Then came Moore, totally wrong choice; but got hired away by Texas Tech and later became one of the greatest of fc division football. Then a one year mistake with the hire of Bob Tyler, who was very qualified but did not exactly a sterling reputation.  Than Corky Nelson who became a fan favorite with his feisty attitude and record in big games against the upper division.  The demotion of the football program probably kept Nelson from achieving more.  Many don't recognize the challenges that NT had in 1aa.  NT actually was in a good position resource wise, but the big problem was that most of the Southland Conference had much more lenient qualification standards and most of the athletes NT played against in the conference couldn't have got into NT.  

Dennis Parker, a high school coach, was hired to replace Corky.  I really liked Parker, but he like Dodge definitely was not really for college football.  Then back to the big time with the move up and the hiring of Simon.  Simon to me was the only coach in this time period that was really killed by lack of resources.  He faced the most difficult schedule in the USA at the beginning and did well to survive.   NT's move to the Big West didn't help with recruiting.

Darrell Dickey, I think can be argued was an early success.  The move to the Sunbelt gave NT a conference with other teams with similar or even less resources.  NT dominated that conference in the early years.  Darrell Dickey led the mantra of NT being a poor place for college football despite NT's resource level even at the end of his career being at least on a par with NT's conference mates.   Dickey IMO destroyed his own program by his constant complaining.  After his early conference level dominance, Dickey hired an agent and seemed to work a lot harder to get out than improving his situation at NT.  I wonder when Dickey recognized that his "poor me" mantra not only may have been a large part of his recruiting problem, but probably scared away any good job opportunities.  

Most are more than familiar with the "Hail Mary" Dodge hire and then Dan McCarney. The point of this too long commentary, is that NT poor history of football performance is not due to any poor NT culture, but more to too many long shot hires.  I include Parker, Dodge and Tyler as this type of hire.   Two high school coaches and a shady ex SEC coach that most programs would have never considered as head coaches.    Fry and Moore were both good enough to get hired away from NT.  Many would consider Nelson as a success based on his longevity at NT.    Again, I think Simon was truly in an almost impossible situation based on resources and being here for the resurgence into FB football.  He was hired in hopes that being one of a couple of black head coaches would give him recruiting advantages.  Dickey was an early success, but he could not sustain that level.  

NT has made great strides in football facilities and pay levels that severely limited coach choices in the past.  Instead of worrying about the very convenient "poor culture" excuse, emphasize NT's advantages.  Giant university, best recruiting area in nation, recognized popular Denton location, great stadium, etc.  

 

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ChristopherRyanWilkes Enthusiast

ChristopherRyanWilkes

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It's sad how all of these excuses made by RV and Mac seem to cause our own fanbase to sell ourselves short.

I think some of the "limitations" we tell ourselves are sorta ironic too. Being in DFW is a hindrance to recruiting? Huh? I get it I guess, but still it sounds funny when you think about it from an outsider's prospective. I'm sure the smaller FBS programs with 10,000 students and a 50 year old stadium are looking at us and wondering why we are worse than they are. 

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Withers940 Experienced

Withers940

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For some Reason I cant Plus/Minus anyones Comments....Am I on Probation @Harry?

I look at the job of UNT head football coach as a career killer. We have fired our last 8 hires. Granted that there are only 128 D1 positions available, but with our coaching track record and inheriting the worst program in D1 football who would want the job?

BOOOOOOO, You get a -5 for that comment

I heard it is tough to recruit kids to North Texas...

+1

It's sad how all of these excuses made by RV and Mac seem to cause our own fanbase to sell ourselves short.

+5

Edited by Withers940
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BillySee58 Grand Master

BillySee58

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I think some of the "limitations" we tell ourselves are sorta ironic too. Being in DFW is a hindrance to recruiting? Huh? I get it I guess, but still it sounds funny when you think about it from an outsider's prospective. I'm sure the smaller FBS programs with 10,000 students and a 50 year old stadium are looking at us and wondering why we are worse than they are. 

Exactly. Or RV making it sound like we couldn't afford a coach worth a darn when we hired Dodge, who was tied for the third-highest paid coach in the SBC when he was hired. Yet he still lost to coaches who were paid less.

And yeah, saying recruiting here is a hindrance is ridiculous. No one's expecting us to out recruit OU or LSU  for the top kids over here. The best part about recruiting here is there are so many good, CUSA-level prospects who the big schools will still pass on. For that reason I'm really glad Mccarney is gone. But the self-loathing doesn't end with him.

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GreenTexan13 Apprentice

GreenTexan13

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The only TRUE negative I can see driving off a promising potential coach is RV and his baggage.

Seriously though, We are in a hot bed of recruiting grounds, our facilities are probably the best in CUSA, and like Coloradoeagle said,it is one of the better chances for an up and coming coach who wants to earn his way to the P5's.

But..... I'm afraid that the way NT has been hiring in the past will not change. Because the University has not made the stride to completely start over and create a new and improved change. I don't think I have to repeat myself on what needs to happen. (That dead horse is beaten to a pulp)

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UNT90 Newbie

UNT90

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This is the single best opportunity for a coach who isn't being considered for a P5 job. The facilities, school, and recruiting area are all top notch, and it doesn't take much to compete for a CUSA title. 

When talking about hires, there are really only 3 coaches to talk about, because that's the recent history. Dickey had very poor facilities and a bad conference to sell, plus he had health issues that ended his run. Todd Dodge was a bad hire, and in way over his head. Mac wasn't a bad hire, but I think his health issues and stubbornness kept him from being as successful as he should have been.

If you get someone in here who knows how to coach, can recruit at least to our level, and puts everything they have into it, then we're in the CUSA championship game.

Mac was the worst hire. He had more to work with than any coach, failed miserably to recruit, didn't even try to recruit his last year, and left this program worse off than he found it. New stadium and all. Oh, and he coached UNT to the worst loss in college football history.

If that isn't a bad hire, I don't know what is.

Edited by UNT90
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Harry Grand Master

Harry

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Mac was the worst hire. He had more to work with than any coach, failed miserably to recruit, didn't even try to recruit his last year, and left this program worse off than he found it. New stadium and all. Oh, and he coached UNT to the worst loss in college football history.

If that isn't a bad hire, I don't know what is.

he took us to a bowl. 

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UNT90 Newbie

UNT90

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he took us to a bowl. 

With someone else's players. 

After calling those players the "smallest, slowest" players in FBS.

And then he didn't recruit. Just basically gave up this year. 

And he left us the worst team in FBS football. Worse than he found us.

That is a terrible hire.

Edited by UNT90
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rcade Veteran

rcade

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UNT has 37,000 students and a new football stadium. We're in DFW, which at 6.9 million people is the largest metropolitan area in the entire south and is the No. 5 TV market in the U.S.

Suggesting we can't make football work with those strengths is completely ridiculous. Put a competent AD in place and we can end the decades-old tradition of punching below our weight.

Edited by rcade
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MeanMag Rising Star

MeanMag

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UNT has 37,000 students and a new football stadium. We're in DFW, which at 6.9 million people is the largest metropolitan area in the entire south and is the No. 5 TV market in the U.S.

Suggesting we can't make football work with those strengths is completely ridiculous. Put a competent AD in place and we can end the decades-old tradition of punching below our weight.

Even if we didn't put a new AD in place, he hands out extensions when a stiff wind blows through his pants. That has to count for something. Just be .500 or better and don't be a dick to your boss, and you can keep a job for a long, long time with that guy.

It shows we are willing to extend and pay out raises...

I just don't know how much looking at that buyout, his age, and health had to play with DMAC mailing it in, if that can be said about the guy.

I also don't think the extension was necessary at that point. He had proven nothing.

Edited by MeanMag
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