U guys must love the Benford Hire?

[Wag Tag]

You want a coach that has been an assistant at a successful program and can recruit! Oh and DOES NOT NEED HEAD COACHING EXPERIENCE! What about TONY! How is that working for U!

[Hunter Green]

Point taken.

GMG

[BillySee58]

It's why people sound silly to me when they say "We need a guy who is this. We need a guy who is that."

No. We need a guy who is a good fit here. Don't get too caught up in what you want in a coach, from a resume standpoint. 

[VideoEagle]

You want a coach that has been an assistant at a successful program and can recruit! Oh and DOES NOT NEED HEAD COACHING EXPERIENCE! What about TONY! How is that working for U!

It's worked out pretty well for OU with Bob Stoops. Things are bad for K State with a guy who only had HS head coaching experience before some college assistant experience, Bill Snyder. 

It's not hard to come up with a single example of success or failure for any combination of experience. 

[Greendylan]

The present state of our football program is light years behind the state of our basketball team the last time we were in the market for a head coach.  I'm not sure how helpful it is to make comparisons between the two situations.

Having said that, I do agree with Billy and others who have said that there is no single-criterion formula to determine a coach's chances to succeed here.

[Cr1028]

It is all speculation at this point and ultimately it does not matter what we think of the hire because we are not paid to make successful hires.

[Green P1]

Not me. 

[Mike Jackson]

The comparison to a basketball head coaching position is silly.  You need just one really good recruit to transform a basketball program.  And if an recruit like a LeBron James would have been if the 1 year and done NBA rule caught him, he might have went to Akron.  And we know that would have had little to do the coach at Akron but the love for his community.  DeMarcus Smith could be the seconding coming of Vince Young here and it would make little difference with a horrible defense and a offensive line that can't pass block.  You might beat Portland State, UTEP and maybe UTSA but you probably not winning more than 4 games this season.

[EagleMBA]

It is all speculation at this point and ultimately it does not matter what we think of the hire because we are not paid to make successful hires.

No, we are definitely not. And the one (or more) who hires the one who is paid to do that continues to overlook that page of his job description in evaluating his performance.

(OK grammar nazis, I know that is a run-on sentence.)

Edited October 27, 2015 by EagleMBA

[TheTastyGreek]

You need just one really good recruit to transform a basketball program. 

I love when people say something like this, as it makes for a very easy signal that they don't know what they're talking about, and don't need to be taken remotely seriously whenever they share thoughts and opinions on basketball. 

[Green P1]

Give it a rest. Enough people who actually know basketball have been run off from the boards. What college did you play for or coach at? A couple posters who actually know the sport do not even post anymore because of the nonsense some people say. Maybe you shou just come play in the GMG basketball game....

[emmitt01]

The present state of our football program is light years behind the state of our basketball team the last time we were in the market for a head coach.  I'm not sure how helpful it is to make comparisons between the two situations.

Having said that, I do agree with Billy and others who have said that there is no single-criterion formula to determine a coach's chances to succeed here.

Not being hired by RV?

[untjim1995]

Our basketball team back then was labeled as one of the best mid-majors in the country going into 2012. To intrust that team with an unknown assistant coach only known for recruiting at a high level at a power school was asinine. If Benford succeeded, he was gonna be the head coach at his alma mater, Texas Tech, the next year. If he failed, we wasted our best talented roster probably ever.

what the next football coach will take over could very well go 0-12 this year and next year. It's very, very possible. Finding anyone who wants this job and is qualified for it as an actual college coach will be done by the worst AD in America. Whoever gets this job next better have his recruiting shoes on--he's got playing time to offer and hope of building something up from below the ocean. Combine our situation when Dickey left and Dodge left and you still aren't as bad as it is now. Our offensive players are built for 1970, not 2015. Our defense has no size and very little speed--two things you cannot coach up. This adds up to a reality that it's probably going to take 3 or 4 years to dig out of this. And if it can be done, we might just see our first coach in football since 1978 actually get hired away. But believing that will occur with a hire by RV is akin to believing that a thief will turn away from an empty briefcase full of cash...

[greenit]

It is all speculation at this point and ultimately it does not matter what we think of the hire because we are not paid to make successful hires.

SMH.  It's always someone else's responsibility.

It's like I am still at work.  And work sucks.

Edited October 27, 2015 by greenit

[untjim1995]

I would like to see the basketball geniuses play. It is for a good cause and if people know so much they should play. It's all for fun....

What the hell does playing pickup basketball have to do with being a good coach?

It sure as hell doesn't help you be a good basketball poster...

[Andrew]

What the hell does playing pickup basketball have to do with being a good coach?

It sure as hell doesn't help you be a good basketball poster...

They could teach us a few things. Two years ago Brandon Walton helped "coach" the event and thought it was funny that these were the people who (in nicer terms) were talking crap about the team. He even knew a few people's screen names including NT90 among others. I would be fun to have some older players return and have people like Tasty Greek show so they could discuss the game. 

Edited October 28, 2015 by Andrew

[Mike Jackson]

I love when people say something like this, as it makes for a very easy signal that they don't know what they're talking about, and don't need to be taken remotely seriously whenever they share thoughts and opinions on basketball. 

Clearly you are the one that doesn't if you don't think that one in a lifetime player like a Le Bron James would transform a program at least temporarily.  A future NBA Hall of Famer and prodigy with decent coaching and players around him that at least belong at the college level would take that team at least one round into the NCAA tournament (round of 32 not 64).   The round of 32 is better than any Mean Green Men's Basketball team has ever gone so I would call that transformational.  Three to five years after the prodigy is gone with average coaching and recruiting sure all that goes down the drain but you could say that about almost any program. So I wasn't talking about just a regular good recruit.  I am talking about a player that would in the top 5 of the NBA draft straight out of high school.  So unless you are former Division 1 college head coach, I don't think you are an authority to refute my opinion.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Mike Jackson

[greenit]

Just so we are on the same page, where are you saying that top 5 recruit out of high school would be after a year under Benny?

[MeanMag]

It's why people sound silly to me when they say "We need a guy who is this. We need a guy who is that."

No. We need a guy who is a good fit here. Don't get too caught up in what you want in a coach, from a resume standpoint. 

And pay him what he's worth thru negotiation. Nothing more, nothing less. This crap that we have to pay him $1M+ sounds like we should then be entitled to wins automatically.

It doesn't work that way.

Give it a rest. Enough people who actually know basketball have been run off from the boards. What college did you play for or coach at? A couple posters who actually know the sport do not even post anymore because of the nonsense some people say. Maybe you shou just come play in the GMG basketball game....

Are you saying all we need is one good recruit to turn around a basketball program, too?

[ChristopherRyanWilkes]

What angers me most about this post is you use "U" in the title indicating you'd like to save time by not typing two more letters, then proceed to type "you" in the main body. On top of all of that you have the gall to use "U" again to end your thought. Unacceptable. 

[Mean Green 93-98]

Clearly you are the one that doesn't if you don't think that one in a lifetime player like a Le Bron James would transform a program at least temporarily.

Considering he never even played college ball, you chose a strange example.  We will probably never in my lifetime have another recruit the level of Tony Mitchell, and our program was not exactly "transformed" when he came.

[Rudy]

You want a coach that has been an assistant at a successful program and can recruit! Oh and DOES NOT NEED HEAD COACHING EXPERIENCE! What about TONY! How is that working for U!

One problem with UR attempt at trying to prove UR point.  Benford was a career assist for a reason.  We want an Up and coming assistant.

[Mike Jackson]

- - - - - - - - - -

Also, I'd say that Tony Mitchell isn't even the most overrated guy we've had in the past 10 years. 

Riley Dodge. 3 years, 5 wins. 1-1 TD/INT ratio. Didn't seem better than the guy he replaced at the position. And when he left, he didn't go to the NFL... He went to McNeese State. 

Going back all the way... Haven't I heard stories about Hayden Fry landing the top recruit in the state, an RB who would be a modern 5-star that never really accomplished anything on the field here? 

Sounds to me like someone is butt hurt over Tony Mitchell and doesn't know much about football either.  Riley Dodge was never mentioned as an almost can't miss NFL QB or WR prospect.   Riley Dodge was barely 6' ft tall and under 200 lbs.   That is right around the size of Russell Wilson.  Russell, even with his obvious talents and accomplishments in a good conference facing good competition, was drafted in the 3rd round primarily because of his size alone.  Because if he were 6' 2" or a little taller with all the same attributes and accomplishments he would have be drafted in the first round.  Yes, Riley was a very accomplished high school QB but he played at a great high school program surrounded by very good high school players.  And there is an asterisk by anything Riley accomplished at North Texas because he injured his throwing arm in the state championship game (his last high school game ever).

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

"My arm hasn't been the same since after I was a senior in high school and had the shoulder surgery," said Dodge, who completed 67.7 percent of his passes for 1,975 yards and nine touchdowns with 15 interceptions for the 2-10 Mean Green last season."  Dallas Morning News Story 2010

So maybe if Tony had a major knee injury that diminished his explosiveness right before he arrived at UNT, you might have somewhat valid comparison

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

By the way another difference between football and basketball is that a high school football player would almost never be considered draft worthy in the first 2 rounds even if they could go straight to the NFL.   I can't think of any true freshman that would have been drafted in the first 3 round of the NFL Draft in April of their Freshman year.  Hershel Walker maybe and that was a different era when running back were valued way more than they are now at the NFL level.  Comparing anything in Basketball to Football is very shaky to say the least and is a huge indicator that a lot of your opinions should not be taken seriously either.  

Edited October 28, 2015 by Mike Jackson

[Mike Jackson]

Considering he never even played college ball, you chose a strange example.  We will probably never in my lifetime have another recruit the level of Tony Mitchell, and our program was not exactly "transformed" when he came.

That is about coaching, poor marketing from the athletic department, a community that doesn't care about college basketball, and virtually no history of basketball success.  Hell I recall the 1988 UNT appearance in the NCAA tournament was barely covered by the Dallas TV news stations.   They were first round cannon fodder for a number 1 seed.  And I compared Le Bron because he is 6' 8" highly touted basketball player that would have been forced to play one year of college under rules that were applied in 2005.  Tony with all the hype surrounding him would have been approached at the very least by agents telling him he should jump straight to the NBA if the rules allowed that his senior year.  So my original statement was attached and the comment you quoted was a defense.   Cause I didn't mean just a really good top 15 recruit I meant an almost can't miss prodigy transforming a program.  My example Vince Young was that at least for the college level.

 

You can't turn on a television in Houston without seeing Vince Young. You might see him more than the Texans. He was like LeBron James in Houston when he was coming out of high school.

”

— Rodrique Wright, Alief Hastings High School, and later Texas defensive tackle.[13]   I referenced Vince Young in my original post and that is why I mentioned LeBron James.  And the original state can be summarized: Even if DeMarcus Smith was the second coming of Vince Young even he could not get the team to win more than 4 or 5 games.  (Meaning he can't play defense, special team or make the players on those squads better).  In contrast a healthy basketball prodigy can be on the court 90% of the game if he can stay out of foul trouble.

[MeanGreen13]

It's worked out pretty well for OU with Bob Stoops. Things are bad for K State with a guy who only had HS head coaching experience before some college assistant experience, Bill Snyder. 

It's not hard to come up with a single example of success or failure for any combination of experience. 

Are we all going to skip over this like Bill Snyder isn't all-everything at KState? sorry, I couldn't get past this statement. You could certainly find a much better example to prove your point.