Positive vs Negative Financial Reinforcement

[UNT90]

I know you're capable of cobbling non-coordinated tactics together. It's how you post and it's how you're approaching this. Lost in the handful of people defending RV here is that there's not strategy...just crap on a wall. It's giving people a sense of a voice, but what the social guy is doing could help you. Coordinate. Make it unified. Plug his site on the banner. Update the messaging on the site with what Zo put in his letters. Have media in mind before, during and after. Use the images for future campaigns. Start new pages. Build an infrastructure that makes this harder for opponents to tie it to some message board crazies. You'd have to make it less about you, but hey, that's not what this is anyway, right?

Ya, it's all about me, bitches!!! 

Me for AD!!!!

Look, if someone else wants to make it their life mission to get RV fired, they can have at it. I simply created a go fund me account and paid for a banner with the donations. Literally 20 minutes of time invested.

The fact that all these things are happening unrelated is more powerful than any organized campaign. I don't care what they call the hardcore fans. 

If you think you can organize it better (because I haven't tried to organize shat, I know you could), please, by all means, have at it.

One other thing not really related to you, but opposing views make a big deal that only 22 people participated. They need to remember that we only needed $1900, and that we raised it in about 28 hours. If it would have cost $8000 to fly that banner, I have little doubt that we would have hit that mark. And fairly quickly. 

Edited October 25, 2015 by UNT90

[wardly]

I respect UNT90's point of view. We just agree to disagree on the issue of a banner. The bottom line is that we all want what is best for out athletic department.Regardless of the outcome, I plan on continuing to support the program , as I would hope we all would. Pogo in the comics[too old for most of you] one said " I have met the enemy and he is us". When I see, and actively participate in bickering of this nature, I fee he may be right.

[Side Show Joe]

I respect UNT90's point of view. We just agree to disagree on the issue of a banner. The bottom line is that we all want what is best for out athletic department.Regardless of the outcome, I plan on continuing to support the program , as I would hope we all would. Pogo in the comics[too old for most of you] one said " I have met the enemy and he is us". When I see, and actively participate in bickering of this nature, I fee he may be right.

Walt Kelly was a great cartoonist. Pogo inspired many others like Bill Watterson, and Berkeley Breathed.

[greenit]

I have been racking my brain trying to find some examples that are similar to the current situation with the AD.  For example, where a group of people feel oppressed, or that they feel that their voice is not being heard, or that they feel they are being charged for things without getting something fair in return for their money.  I keep thinking once I find an example of such situations or historical events, there will be a recurring theme of how those that feel they are being oppressed typically respond to these sorts of things.

I also bet that once I can find some examples, I might even find an example or an event that would loosely relate to the flying of the banner thing.

Oh well, I will keep looking.  I am headed to Boston this week.  I want to make sure and try some of the tea down by the harbour when I am there.  I heard it is quite good although some don't like it as much.  Maybe something will come to mind.

[Quoner]

Ya, it's all about me, bitches!!! 

Me for AD!!!!

Look, if someone else wants to make it their life mission to get RV fired, they can have at it. I simply created a go fund me account and paid for a banner with the donations. Literally 20 minutes of time invested.

Well, RV invested about 30 minutes making a decade's worth of schedules and you haven't stopped second guessing him for 4 years. 

[rcade]

I know you're capable of cobbling non-coordinated tactics together. It's how you post and it's how you're approaching this. Lost in the handful of people defending RV here is that there's not strategy...just crap on a wall. It's giving people a sense of a voice, but what the social guy is doing could help you. Coordinate. Make it unified. Plug his site on the banner. Update the messaging on the site with what Zo put in his letters. Have media in mind before, during and after. Use the images for future campaigns. Start new pages. Build an infrastructure that makes this harder for opponents to tie it to some message board crazies. You'd have to make it less about you, but hey, that's not what this is anyway, right?

You have an inexhaustible list of suggestions for work somebody else should be doing.

This isn't a professional PR campaign. It's a grass-roots effort by some fans that will either spur other fans to action or not. We're not going to plan out "messaging" and "strategy" like we are trying to get Americans to switch from Bud to Coors.

Edited October 25, 2015 by rcade

[Mike Jackson]

People are done.  You teased them the Apogee and facilities.  But the commitment to build a program worthy of the 25th largest university in the USA was never in BOR, President, or Athletic Director.  RV is the face of this BS and continued employment is confirmation that it isn't going to change.

[Quoner]

You have an inexhaustible list of suggestions for work somebody else should be doing.

This isn't a professional PR campaign. It's a grass-roots effort by some fans that will either spur other fans to action or not. We're not going to plan out "messaging" and "strategy" like we are trying to get Americans to switch from Bud to Coors.

But if you want to do that, let us know and we'll post a list of detailed ideas for how you can do it.

You guys making a moment out of telling a guy he sucks at his job sure hate hearing someone else tell you the same. And since I've only seen you show up when things at their most terrible before fading away for years at a time, I thought you'd want to get the most out of it. 

[HarringtonFishSmeller]

You guys and your "trolling" accusations.  If anyone disagrees with you, you say it's trolling.

Well, congratulations.  I'd bet that most of you have been "trolled" your entire lives, then.  Learn to deal with people not agreeing with you.  Or, in this case, deal with the fact that someone does agree with you, but who feels you could be going about the way you show your displeasure differently.

Earth to space cadets:  the people in charge can see that the football and basketball program are not doing well.  They don't need a flying banner to tell them. 

[UNT90]

You guys making a moment out of telling a guy he sucks at his job sure hate hearing someone else tell you the same. 

Except we aren't getting paid 300k plus? 

Weird, eh? 

Edited October 25, 2015 by UNT90

[aztecskin]

Ya, it's all about me, bitches!!! 

Me for AD!!!!

Look, if someone else wants to make it their life mission to get RV fired, they can have at it. I simply created a go fund me account and paid for a banner with the donations. Literally 20 minutes of time invested.

1. The fact that all these things are happening unrelated is more powerful than any organized campaign. I don't care what they call the hardcore fans. 

If you think you can organize it better (because I haven't tried to organize shat, I know you could), please, by all means, have at it.

One other thing not really related to you, but opposing views make a big deal that only 22 people participated. They need to remember that we only needed $1900, and that we raised it in about 28 hours. If it would have cost $8000 to fly that banner, I have little doubt that we would have hit that mark. And fairly quickly. 

There are a lot of quotations about the moment choosing you and not you the moment. I'll let you choose your own.

1. It's not nearly powerful enough or more powerful than an organized campaign. 

Let me be crass for a second and mention that all those groundswell movements that you've seen in the last decade have either fizzled out or organized and stayed around, because that's what needs to happen for these things to grow. The establishment (ugh, I can't believe I typed that) is organized, professionalized, and backed financially. Grass roots campaigns are easily swatted if they do not have the requisite infrastructure to withstand a coordinated effort. 

I mean, RV talked to the Daily, had a press conference, went on the board's podcast and his critics have . . . done a lot of random tweeting, posting, and banner flying. It's good enough to warrant the guy stepping up to deal a preemptive media strike, but not enough to get the dude canned. 

That there is interest enough to raise a banner in a few days, but just an indication of the potential to *do* something. Else, all that potential energy will be exerted in undirected places -- like tweets, apathy, blogging, what-have-you, instead of getting the guy replaced. 

[UNT90]

There are a lot of quotations about the moment choosing you and not you the moment. I'll let you choose your own.

1. It's not nearly powerful enough or more powerful than an organized campaign. 

Let me be crass for a second and mention that all those groundswell movements that you've seen in the last decade have either fizzled out or organized and stayed around, because that's what needs to happen for these things to grow. The establishment (ugh, I can't believe I typed that) is organized, professionalized, and backed financially. Grass roots campaigns are easily swatted if they do not have the requisite infrastructure to withstand a coordinated effort. 

I mean, RV talked to the Daily, had a press conference, went on the board's podcast and his critics have . . . done a lot of random tweeting, posting, and banner flying. It's good enough to warrant the guy stepping up to deal a preemptive media strike, but not enough to get the dude canned. 

That there is interest enough to raise a banner in a few days, but just an indication of the potential to *do* something. Else, all that potential energy will be exerted in undirected places -- like tweets, apathy, blogging, what-have-you, instead of getting the guy replaced. 

Have at it. Take the lead. Quoner can take the lead if he so pleases. 

What will speak louder than anything is the amount of MGC money that will walk out the door. If it's enough, maybe something will be done. 

Look, we don't have the money to compete with the Flys of this fan base. Never will. All we can hope is enough numbers write letters and (unfortunately) withdraw financial support to turn a significant head of two.

Hopefully some of RV's outrageous comments and spin control will make some of the people that matter think twice about supporting him. But if Portland St 66 UNT 7 doesn't do it, I doubt any outrageous comments will.

The banner should draw media attention and apply pressure.  Will it matter? We shall see.

 

[Aquila_Viridis]

I have come to realize that a North Texas football or basketball event is designed for people who don't care whether the team wins or even if there is a game played. I don't think there are very many of those people though. I would say, 'maybe the "Establishment" doesn't realize how many people do care or could be made to care', but I also think it is evident that the Establishment is in the 'don't care' set.  So unless a frightful army of concerned and embarrassed North Texans stages a sit-in or something over at wherever the Establishment makes its fortifications, no significant change is gonna come.

I should clarify. There are many people who don't care. I am saying that there are few of those who would attend a football or basketball event, yet the events seem to be targeted at exactly those few people.

And as for a sit-in, it is not to show them about the numbers of caring people, but more to make the Establishment feel uncomfortable. They seem very comfortable.

[UNT90]

I have come to realize that a North Texas football or basketball event is designed for people who don't care whether the team wins or even if there is a game played. I don't think there are very many of those people though. I would say, 'maybe the "Establishment" doesn't realize how many people do care or could be made to care', but I also think it is evident that the Establishment is in the 'don't care' set.  So unless a frightful army of concerned and embarrassed North Texans stages a sit-in or something over at wherever the Establishment makes its fortifications, no significant change is gonna come.

I should clarify. There are many people who don't care. I am saying that there are few of those who would attend a football or basketball event, yet the events seem to be targeted at exactly those few people.

And as for a sit-in, it is not to show them about the numbers of caring people, but more to make the Establishment feel uncomfortable. They seem very comfortable.

Sit ins are illegal. Once you are ordered to leave, you better leave or you will go to jail for criminal tresspass. 

I highly discourage this type of activity.

If someone wants to organize some form of legal protest accompanied with the proper permits for such protest, knock yourself out.

 You may draw about 5 people 

[KRAM1]

 

we all know the people that want RV gone make up a majority of the Mean Green Club membership.

You do?

[Ben Gooding]

You do?

I believe so. 

The ones that are educated on the matter far more want him gone than not. 

Then there are the ignorant ones that have no idea what is going on (These people are RV's lifeline). 

Then there is a tiny percentage that some how, some way who endorses the man. 

Edited October 27, 2015 by Ben Gooding

[MeanGreenTexan]

You do?

Depends.  If you are counting people, probably.   If you're counting dollars, obviously not.

[Censored by Laurie]

Why do you think that you represent the majority of the fan base? 

did you not see all the black shirts at homecoming? entire sections worth. 

[UNT90]

The ones that are educated on the matter far more want him gone than not. 

This. Although I would add the educated fans that actually care about winning and losing are the ones that overwhelmingly want him gone. 

There will always be 300 to 400 members who are there for the social aspect. More power to them. But don't count them as knowledgable, hardcore fans.

[untjim1995]

I have come to realize that a North Texas football or basketball event is designed for people who don't care whether the team wins or even if there is a game played. I don't think there are very many of those people though. I would say, 'maybe the "Establishment" doesn't realize how many people do care or could be made to care', but I also think it is evident that the Establishment is in the 'don't care' set.  So unless a frightful army of concerned and embarrassed North Texans stages a sit-in or something over at wherever the Establishment makes its fortifications, no significant change is gonna come.

I should clarify. There are many people who don't care. I am saying that there are few of those who would attend a football or basketball event, yet the events seem to be targeted at exactly those few people.

And as for a sit-in, it is not to show them about the numbers of caring people, but more to make the Establishment feel uncomfortable. They seem very comfortable.

To verify a lot of what you say about the fans who show up not caring about results, look at the amount of posters who talk about tailgating as their main reason for attending games and that this is primary to them. Its a big reason why RV gets a pass, because he was less dumb than the previous ADs here who didn't open up tailgating at a university in the South.

The only way to make the leaders at the university feel uncomfortable is to get the media involved. A banner can help that--we have already seen the NT Daily bring it up and RV go into a huge PR spin with them. Imagine if the DRC follows and Brett Vito actually hits hard on this? Or, even better, imagine some outlet in the DFW media grabbing onto this? But the problem is that from a media standpoint, we have one professional journalist that covers us from outside the university. The DFW media doesn't give two $hits about us, unless we are the punchline to a story about a bought ass-beating at the hands of a P5 team or an epic, record-breaking loss like we had against Portland State, which brings out a few complaints from DFW media members that are embarrassed alums who have abandoned the program years or decades ago. In the end, the establishment, as you rightly calls them, will keep going on as if things are fine in their world--because it is. There just isn't enough interest  or money to change the status quo. So, as it always does, the university gives you two options: Accept it as is or go away...either way, they don't care what you choose. RV is the embodiment of this mindset. He is protected by the administration and the big money donors he has cultivated over the last 15 years. There isn't anything to suggest that its about to change, either.

Edited October 27, 2015 by untjim1995

[oldguystudent]

There will always be 300 to 400 members who are there for the social aspect. More power to them. But don't count them as knowledgable, hardcore fans.

For all of the viable reasons that the fanbase could engage in in-fighting, pointing fingers at HOW any fan enjoys the experience is misguided ire.

[UNT90]

For all of the viable reasons that the fanbase could engage in in-fighting, pointing fingers at HOW any fan enjoys the experience is misguided ire.

These fans don't care if we go 0-12. It's what they are used to and doesn't affect their giving. It's not pointing fingers, it just is. 

[Side Show Joe]

You do?

I have yet to run across a member at the games that is happy with the direction we are headed. Judging by the votes from the poll here, and the Mean Green Club members I've talked to at the games, it seems very unlikely a majority of the members support him at this point.

[MGNation92]

I have yet to run across a member at the games that is happy with the direction we are headed. Judging by the votes from the poll here, and the Mean Green Club members I've talked to at the games, it seems very unlikely a majority of the members support him at this point.

You do?

He is the very reason as to why I don't donate. I donate to the Alumni Association because I believe in my school, I believe in the direction that it is heading academically. I don't not support nor believe in the direction it is headed athletically. 

[wardly]

Based upon all the recent postings I have had a personal revelation.I'm sure that most of you already have figured this out,but I  have just come to realize that our athletic department needs  the "gang of 17" as well as fans who may be a season ticket holder,Meangreenclub member, or  just attend an occasional  sporting event. It is essential to have big donors who give us funds for projects that we would not be able to accomplish otherwise. Equally it is absolutely necessary that  we have  fan support and broad giving at a lesser level.It is like a country club. While it is  nice to get the big initiation fee up front,  if you don't have the monthly dues cash flow the club will fail. I am not going to get into a debate as to which faction should have the greater influence regarding the retention of our current athletic director.The bottom line is that UNT needs all of us, and I hope that after the smoke clears we can go forward and support our new football coach regardless of who hires him.