Positive vs Negative Financial Reinforcement

[Quoner]

The tactics employed by that group are very transparent. Thumb nose, shoot finger, taunt, insult, vague allusions of consequences, etc.. It almost seems coordinated, but I'm not paranoid. IMO the objective is to string this debate out, buy time, and make us weary of the fight so we'll go away. Political tactics, not objective discovery and evaluation of facts.

FACTS = the new F word. How about the new S word -- SOLUTIONS.

There's a guy our there who knows how to use digital channels based on FB ads and FireRickV.com. Imagine what these banner funds could do with a coordinated campaign he helps execute...central messages, media targeting, the whole bit. It'd be harder than flying a plane around for an hour, though.

[rcade]

I think we can safely assume that the people who donated toward the banner are aware that their collective monetary contributions can't compete with the amounts of some--let's say--"different-minded" big donors.  So, they are voicing their opinion through a public display of words rather that a novelty-sized million dollar check.  

I can totally respect the views of those who oppose flying banner as an effective method.  But, I just don't get this concept that donating massive amounts of money is the ONLY way to prove that your opinion is worthy.  Is UNT a private corporation or a non-profit, public institution?  Let's not disenfranchise all potential fans save for a handful of millionaires and denigrate passionate supporters as being "all talk" when "talk" is their only recourse.  

Bingo.

It is stating the obvious that banner donors and most GMG diehards are not writing six- or seven-figure checks to influence UNT athletics. If we had that kind of money to buy us a big voice on campus, we wouldn't be complaining here. We'd be having a private come-to-Jesus meeting with RV and President Smatresk about how our money has bought us a ceaseless series of Saturday ass-whippings.

But people who think average fans don't matter should never complain about attendance. Average fans can collectively contribute a lot of money, and you can't fill a stadium with just 17 big donors.

[Ben Gooding]

The real money at real programs come from the average Joe's, not the big money big wigs (granted they initiate projects and front money for said projects). 

[wardly]

Once again, I realize your groups frustration,[ no one specific individual] but flying a banner may make you feel  better but I fear it will have a negative impact of our university. Our new president will be the ultimate decision maker, and in my opinion your actions will be counterproductive. Your response to my opinion is "how do you know?" My answer is,"I don't". I tend to look at issues as how I would respond. I have only had one conversation with our president, but he seemed to me not a man to respond to what many perceive as a personal attack on his athletic director. You can debate the validity of my observation, but I personally would discount actions by a group of unnamed alumni if I was in his position.

[FirefightnRick]

Hey Rick.   I agree with everything you posted here, none of which seems to tie with my understanding of how things operate.   I never said that the school couldn't take action without specific funding from the fan base.  My comments were toward taking a positive financial angle on showing school leadership where we think things need to go.  It shows a joint commitment to make improvements to our university rather than pulling money away and expecting those tasked with running things to do more with less.  If we show our desire for improvements by reducing our financial support, then the answer to your last question from a fan base perspective is "no".

is this directed at someone specific? Assuming @UNT90.  You might consider specifying when you post or quoting what you are responding to so that you ensure you only piss off the intended people.  

Ok...but that's not reality.  No one in their right mind is going to throw good money towards bad results.  

Rick

Edited October 24, 2015 by FirefightnRick

[EagleMBA]

Refusal to acknowledge what is happening and address it will not contribute to a satisfactory solution.

[rcade]

I have only had one conversation with our president, but he seemed to me not a man to respond to what many perceive as a personal attack on his athletic director. You can debate the validity of my observation, but I personally would discount actions by a group of unnamed alumni if I was in his position.

Rick Villarreal has made around $3 million dollars in salary during a decade in which our football team won 31% of its games, putting us in the bottom 10 of all FBS schools over that period. That's a lot of money. Why do you think he's paid so much? He's expected to deliver a product in football and basketball that successfully markets the university.

It is not a personal attack to call in public for one of the university's best-compensated employees to be accountable for poor job performance after 14 years on the job.

Smatresk has replaced an AD as a university president. He's unlikely to view a "Fire Rick Villarreal" banner in personal terms. He will assess Villarreal in business terms.

If he decided to stick it to disgruntled fans by keeping Villarreal, it would be an act of self-destruction. The failure in revenue sports will become an albatross around his neck too.

[EagleMBA]

Rick Villarreal has made around $3 million dollars in salary during a decade in which our football team won 31% of its games, putting us in the bottom 10 of all FBS schools over that period. That's a lot of money. Why do you think he's paid so much? He's expected to deliver a product in football and basketball that successfully markets the university.

It is not a personal attack to call in public for one of the university's best-compensated employees to be accountable for poor job performance after 14 years on the job.

Smatresk has replaced an AD as a university president. He's unlikely to view a "Fire Rick Villarreal" banner in personal terms. He will must assess Villarreal in business terms.

If he decided to stick it to disgruntled fans by keeping Villarreal, it would be an act of self-destruction. The failure in revenue sports will become an albatross around his neck too.

This.

Edited October 24, 2015 by EagleMBA

[UNT90]

Why do you think that you represent the majority of the fan base? You may represent over half the posters on this board,but you  feed off each other giving the impression that you actually have power.The fact that you think raising $1600 [22 gave an average of $75 each] is significant just shows how delusional you are as regards impacting change.

You severely underestimate this effort, as you do the amount of support for RV' firing.

The poll count was 151-11. Those numbers shocked even me. And those are THE most knowledgable, hardcore members of this fan base. 

And if it is a waste of money and time, why does it have your panties in such a wad? Why not just let us waste our money? 

[wardly]

My panties are in a wad in that I don't think flying a negative banner is a way to get a positive result.Again, just my opinion. The four hardest words I had to learn In business were " you may be right". That phrase could apply to both sides of this coin.

[rcade]

My panties are in a wad in that I don't think flying a negative banner is a way to get a positive result.

Then what is the way to get a positive result? Let RV pick a third coach, start giving money again and hope really really hard?

[EagleMBA]

Then what is the way to get a positive result? Let RV pick a third coach, start giving money again and hope really really hard?

Exactly. "Hope" is for church! I will say here that I respect wardly and his passion for his position, but I just can't agree that standing down will accomplish anything in the way of progress. Sometimes you have to clear the lot before you can rebuild on it.

[Harry]

Cosh is only as good as his personnel.  When you have a true freshman Roderick Young playing most of the dline snaps and two true freshman corners what does that tell you?

[rcade]

Exactly. "Hope" is for church! I will say here that I respect wardly and his passion for his position, but I just can't agree that standing down will accomplish anything in the way of progress. Sometimes you have to clear the lot before you can rebuild on it.

We had to destroy Mean Green Village in order to save it.

[UNT90]

There's a guy our there who knows how to use digital channels based on FB ads and FireRickV.com. Imagine what these banner funds could do with a coordinated campaign he helps execute...central messages, media targeting, the whole bit. It'd be harder than flying a plane around for an hour, though.

Or imagine if both tactics are used.

What a concept, eh?

My panties are in a wad in that I don't think flying a negative banner is a way to get a positive result.Again, just my opinion. The four hardest words I had to learn In business were " you may be right". That phrase could apply to both sides of this coin.

It could. We just disagree.

 

[wardly]

I would have tried to work up the food chain, starting with the president. If no results, go to Lee Jackson. If no results there, then The B.O.R. If by then I had exhausted all reasonable avenues of communication, then I would write a letter to the editor of DMN as a way to take my issue public. I would not have done a banner, because if all other options had failed I would have concluded that if they didn't care why should I. I realize the process I suggest would have taken time, but if it had began after your poll it should have been completed by now. Guys, the "to banner or not to banner" question has been beaten to death by me and others. I am tired of it, and am just going to wait and see how this all plays out without further comment.

[UNT90]

This ultimately is a question for the GoFundMe and the like experts out there. 

I think there is a fundamental issue with people that are expressing their frustration with the university for not investing in a new head coach, new AD, etc. by discontinuing investing in the university themselves (dropping out of the Mean Green Club, discontinuing season tickets, etc.).  This mentality reduces what the university can afford to invest.  It's a downward spiral.  

Here's a thought.  If supporters want to see certain actions taken by the university, could crowd sourcing sites be set up to supplement the cost of those actions if taken by a certain date?  For example, for those that would prefer for RV to seek success elsewhere, could a GoFundMe site be set up to cover the costs of getting out of RV's contract but only if RV was released by say 12/31/15?  Then, ensure the university understands the stipulations to receive the funding.   If he wasn't released by that date, no one has to pay their commitments?

Seems like voting with our wallets to support good decisions makes better since than reducing resources needed to make good decisions.  Thoughts?

 

Why haven't you acted on this idea, put up a crowd funding site, and solicited benefits?

Because you are like most others in this apathetic fan base. You won't do it because you are afraid of rocking the RV applecart. 

If you aren't willing to step up for your ideas, please don't preach to us who have. You see, this type of fan is the reason this program has been crap for the majority of the last 15 years.

Also, I've stated VERY publicly that the banner donation will go to the MGC if RV is removed before Marshall. How is that any different from what you are proposing?

Edited October 24, 2015 by UNT90

[rcade]

I would have tried to work up the food chain, starting with the president. If no results, go to Lee Jackson. If no results there, then The B.O.R. If by then I had exhausted all reasonable avenues of communication, then I would write a letter to the editor of DMN as a way to take my issue public. I would not have done a banner, because if all other options had failed I would have concluded that if they didn't care why should I. I realize the process I suggest would have taken time, but if it had began after your poll it should have been completed by now. Guys, the "to banner or not to banner" question has been beaten to death by me and others. I am tired of it, and am just going to wait and see how this all plays out without further comment.

If you think the coaching hire will be made with urgency, your process would still be going on when RV announced the new coach and set us on his path for another 3-5 years.

We need as many fans as possible contacting Smatresk to say they're ready for a change at AD. That requires a public campaign that can reach as many people as possible who care about Mean Green football.

I did contact Smatresk. I got a generic response about my mail being received. He then made public comments that made it sound like he's committed to business as usual and RV made a bunch of public comments that showed zero recognition of our problems and dismissed his critics as a "minority." It didn't seem like complaints like mine were being heard.

[Christopher Walker]

But, I just don't get this concept that donating massive amounts of money is the ONLY way to prove that your opinion is worthy.  Is UNT a private corporation or a non-profit, public institution?  Let's not disenfranchise all potential fans save for a handful of millionaires and denigrate passionate supporters as being "all talk" when "talk" is their only recourse.  

I don't think you can completely fault that viewpoint when the oligarchy political state we live within reinforces it at every major turn.

[FirefightnRick]

Guys, the "to banner or not to banner" question has been beaten to death by me and others. I am tired of it.....

After going at it all week you could have fooled me?  In fact....I think you've proven to yourself that..your not as old as you think you are.  It's as if UNT90 has actually helped you find the fountain of youth

 

Rick

Edited October 25, 2015 by FirefightnRick

[UNTpolitico]

Although large donors do have the ear of the administration. It is the generations of Alums that graduate and don't build that bond of giving and connecting with their alma mater that is the greater loss. 

[Harry]

Although large donors do have the ear of the administration. It is the generations of Alums that graduate and don't build that bond of giving and connecting with their alma mater that is the greater loss. 

Well stated.  A competitive athletic program helps you build those bonds.

[foutsrouts]

Bottom line to me is that the banner is not going to cause any damage to our University like some are alleging. It may not get the job done, but it will certainly let people know within and without our school that people do care, and that many here have had it with the blase and incompetent crap that we have been fed for years by those in charge. Let 'er fly. 

[Quoner]

Or imagine if both tactics are used.

What a concept, eh?

It could. We just disagree.

 

I know you're capable of cobbling non-coordinated tactics together. It's how you post and it's how you're approaching this. Lost in the handful of people defending RV here is that there's not strategy...just crap on a wall. It's giving people a sense of a voice, but what the social guy is doing could help you. Coordinate. Make it unified. Plug his site on the banner. Update the messaging on the site with what Zo put in his letters. Have media in mind before, during and after. Use the images for future campaigns. Start new pages. Build an infrastructure that makes this harder for opponents to tie it to some message board crazies. You'd have to make it less about you, but hey, that's not what this is anyway, right?

[UNTpolitico]

Bottom line to me is that the banner is not going to cause any damage to our University like some are alleging. It may not get the job done, but it will certainly let people know within and without our school that people do care, and that many here have had it with the blase and incompetent crap that we have been fed for years by those in charge. Let 'er fly. 

 The banner will receive attention and coverage.. Whether you agree or disagree with the topic. It will be a topic of conversation among alumni and students. It will most likely require far more attention and far more voices but every revolution starts with a first shot...