You are the AD

Cr1028 · October 22, 2015

You guys ever heard of a champagne taste with a beer pocketbook?

You guys tell me how in the wide, wide, world of sports, could any of you, regardless of how much you are paid to be the expert at hiring people, could find someone HIGHLY QUALIFIED and a sure-fire can't-miss hire to be an analyst when the average pay is over $100,000 and the top earners are making $300k while you can only pay $20k. Not only that but these candidates could also go work as a junior analyst under an average-to-top earner analysts and make $20k on average with less workload while gaining knowledge from those top analysts. Seems awfully difficult if you ask me.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2007-12-04-coaches-pay_N.htm

Edited October 23, 2015 by Cr1028

TheTastyGreek · October 22, 2015

If it were an easy job, it wouldn't pay as much as it does.

If it were an impossible job, other people wouldn't be able to succeed at it with less money, fewer resources, and substantial geographic disadvantages.

Cr1028 · October 23, 2015

If it were an easy job, it wouldn't pay as much as it does.
If it were an impossible job, other people wouldn't be able to succeed at it with less money, fewer resources, and substantial geographic disadvantages.

So you're saying it should be easy to hire a successful candidate at 20% of the AVERAGE salary? 1/5th of what just the average guy working in that job is making?

And if we hadn't been within driving distance from his house, we'd have likely been turned down by Dodge too.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Cr1028

rcade · October 23, 2015

We paid McCarney the fourth-best salary in our conference, not that far from the top compensation of $812,000.

It's not a level of pay to crow about, compared to all of FBS, but it's high enough to set aside the excuse that we don't pay enough to attract anybody decent.

Cr1028 · October 23, 2015

We paid McCarney the fourth-best salary in our conference, not that far from the top compensation of $812,000.
It's not a level of pay to crow about, compared to all of FBS, but it's high enough to set aside the excuse that we don't pay enough to attract anybody decent.

We didn't pay that in '07 and Dodge is lumped in with McCarney when the failure moniker is thrown around here. We were lucky to get Dodge at the time. Everyone said it was a solid hire. The learning curve was just too steep and it didn't work out.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Cr1028

ColoradoEagle · October 23, 2015

It's almost as if the athletic director should have been a better fundraiser to offer a higher salary...

rcade · October 23, 2015

We didn't pay that in '07 and Dodge is lumped in with McCarney when he failure moniker is thrown around here. We were lucky to get Dodge at the time. Everyone said it was a solid hire. The learning curve was just too steep and it didn't work out.

I don't think it's accurate to say everybody was behind the Dodge hire. Some people were upset that UNT hired a high school coach again. That doesn't happen at the top level of college football, and we've done it twice. (As I recall I got behind the hire pretty quick.)

Dodge was a failure. He lost an unbelievable number of games in a row by 30 points and couldn't even turn things around enough to be the coach to open the new stadium. You can argue that for what we were paying nobody could succeed, but Dickey had shown that it was possible.

Edited October 23, 2015 by rcade

GoMeanGreen1999 · October 23, 2015

AD's across the country raise millions to pay their coaching salaries with far smaller alumni pools. But we can come up with all kinds of excuses. After 25 years I am just tired of hearing them.

meanrob · October 23, 2015

We didn't pay that in '07 and Dodge is lumped in with McCarney when he failure moniker is thrown around here. We were lucky to get Dodge at the time. Everyone said it was a solid hire. The learning curve was just too steep and it didn't work out.

Dodge was paid middle to upper part of the Sun Belt. To compare what we pay our coaches to an average that includes P5 conferences is ludicrous.

Dodge was a failure. Both Mac and Dodge were failures not only against their peers but against lower paid peers.

We have paid our coaches and have an athletic budget in the upper tier of our conferences under RV. Besides one year every other year we have finished in the bottom half of the standings. That's the definition of failure. Our problem isn't money.

I'm watching a game right now with two teams whose coaches get paid less than ours and and either team would beat us by 30. Go figure, they have good offenses and good quarterbacks.

Edited October 23, 2015 by meanrob

BillySee58 · October 23, 2015

It's almost as if the athletic director should have been a better fundraiser to offer a higher salary...

The other argument is that RV couldn't sign a coach for more than Bataille's salary because she wouldn't allow it. She was making $498,000 when she resigned in 2010. The coach who won the Sun Belt last year, Willie Fritz, did so at $300,000 base salary last season, 7 years after Dodge was hired.

Point is, like you said, with more fundraising we could've offered than Dodge, still been under Bataille's salary, and been able to afford a coach at the salary level of the reigning Sun Belt Coach of the Year.

Mike Jackson · October 23, 2015

If it were an easy job, it wouldn't pay as much as it does.
If it were an impossible job, other people wouldn't be able to succeed at it with less money, fewer resources, and substantial geographic disadvantages.

Apparently TastyGreek UNT's location is not an advantage. People have been basically telling that in another thread without realizing it. To them losing a Denton recruit down the street to SMU should be expected. Moreover when I said that I am only upset at losing Denton recruits to UTSA, UTEP, Tulsa, Tulane, and Rice they argued to the contrary. It seems when you start talking about the details of recruiting and "UNT's advantages" disappear especially when talking about Denton and neighboring counties.

Graddean · October 23, 2015

I don't think it's accurate to say everybody was behind the Dodge hire. Some people were upset that UNT hired a high school coach again. That doesn't happen at the top level of college football, and we've done it twice. (As I recall I got behind the hire pretty quick.)
Dodge was a failure. He lost an unbelievable number of games in a row by 30 points and couldn't even turn things around enough to be the coach to open the new stadium. You can argue that for what we were paying nobody could succeed, but Dickey had shown that it was possible.

it is not completely correct that it doesn't happen at the top level..how many remember Gerry Faust at Notre Dame. He was there for five years, and it did not work. Faust was Ohio's Todd Dodge.

Mike Jackson · October 23, 2015

We didn't pay that in '07 and Dodge is lumped in with McCarney when he failure moniker is thrown around here. We were lucky to get Dodge at the time. Everyone said it was a solid hire. The learning curve was just too steep and it didn't work out.

Well I am not everyone. I thought hiring Dodge as first time FBS head coach straight from high school was stupid. Now if they had brought in someone like Jimbo Fisher and brought in Dodge as OC they would did it right. None these "hot young" candidates are going to be able to turn this around and that was no different that it was when Dodge was hired. Also people forget the evaluation of the Dodge hire was clouded by the expectation that a healthy Riley was coming with him. We all know now that wasn't the case. And the logic you use you original post is the same logic I am using we I suggest Mack Brown. Because people don't get I was not just suggesting Mack Brown I was suggesting a team of these "young hot" coaching prospect coaching under him and using Mack's clout wash away some the negative perception of UNT before these coaching/recruiting prospects work their magic. People don't want to hear that because they know the university isn't serious and won't pay of that kind of coaching team.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Mike Jackson

rcade · October 23, 2015

it is not completely correct that it doesn't happen at the top level..how many remember Gerry Faust at Notre Dame. He was there for five years, and it did not work. Faust was Ohio's Todd Dodge.

True. But when we hired Dodge it only had happened three times before: Faust, Bob Commings at Iowa and Dennis Parker at UNT.

Last year, UNLV made it five:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/dennis-dodd/24881535/unlvs-hiring-of-prep-coach-could-make-history-good-or-bad

Cr1028 · October 23, 2015

I don't think it's accurate to say everybody was behind the Dodge hire. Some people were upset that UNT hired a high school coach again. That doesn't happen at the top level of college football, and we've done it twice. (As I recall I got behind the hire pretty quick.)
Dodge was a failure. He lost an unbelievable number of games in a row by 30 points and couldn't even turn things around enough to be the coach to open the new stadium. You can argue that for what we were paying nobody could succeed, but Dickey had shown that it was possible.

Dickey left this program in shambles. His last two seasons the offense was even more anemic than this year's. Once Utah State and NMSU weren't on our schedule anymore, we got smoked by Troy and FAU.

meanrob · October 23, 2015

Dickey left this program in shambles. His last two seasons the offense was even more anemic than this year's. Once Utah State and NMSU weren't on our schedule anymore, we got smoked by Troy and FAU.

Utah State is 30-11 the past three years and 4-2 this year.

I'm glad they're not on our schedule anymore.

Cr1028 · October 23, 2015

True. But when we hired Dodge it only had happened three times before: Faust, Bob Commings at Iowa and Dennis Parker at UNT.
Last year, UNLV made it five:
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/dennis-dodd/24881535/unlvs-hiring-of-prep-coach-could-make-history-good-or-bad

If you go way back, our most successful football coach of all time came straight from Marshall High School where he coached Y.A. Tittle.

Cr1028 · October 23, 2015

Dickey left this program in shambles. His last two seasons the offense was even more anemic than this year's. Once Utah State and NMSU weren't on our schedule anymore, we got smoked by Troy and FAU.

Utah State is 30-11 the past three years and 4-2 this year.
I'm glad they're not on our schedule anymore.

That may be true but for the seasons I referenced, USU went 4-19.

Dickey left this program in shambles. His last two seasons the offense was even more anemic than this year's. Once Utah State and NMSU weren't on our schedule anymore, we got smoked by Troy and FAU.

Whoever -1'd me must've forgotten or not been around for the whopping 272 yards of total offense and 14.3 points per game we put up in '05 or the 232 yards and 12.8 points per game we put up in '06.

UNT90 · October 23, 2015

So you're saying it should be easy to hire a successful candidate at 20% of the AVERAGE salary? 1/5th of what just the average guy working in that job is making?
And if we hadn't been within driving distance from his house, we'd have likely been turned down by Dodge too.

Good lord, dude. It's like you think UNT and a pile of dog crap are worth about as much.

Again, this isn't 1981.

Cr1028 · October 23, 2015

Good lord, dude. It's like you think UNT and a pile of dog crap are worth about as much.
Again, this isn't 1981.

I don't care if it is 2081, we aren't a P5 program or even a G5 program with P5 money yet. Houston is paying almost double McCarney's salary to Herman and SMU is paying Morris almost triple Mac's $725k. These guys were OCs at top P5 programs and those two schools paid a premium to go get those guys. We've been perpetually trying to find a diamond in the rough because we've been unwilling to pay for a polished one. Why don't you send that "fire rv" money and everything else we can muster and say go get the best guy available instead of go get the best guy that we can get for a mid-pack conference salary.

UNT90 · October 23, 2015

I don't care if it is 2081, we aren't a P5 program or even a G5 program with P5 money yet. Houston is paying almost double McCarney's salary to Herman and SMU is paying Morris almost triple Mac's $725k. These guys were OCs at top P5 programs and those two schools paid a premium to go get those guys. We've been perpetually trying to find a diamond in the rough because we've been unwilling to pay for a polished one. Why don't you send that "fire rv" money and everything else we can muster and say go get the best guy available instead of go get the best guy that we can get for a mid-pack conference salary.

Because the problem is the guy making the hire.

We are one of the top 4 paying head coach positions in our conference. There are 128 of these jobs in the world. The old "we are too poor" argument no longer holds water, and hasn't since Apogee opened.

Keep believing RV's BS about blaming past hires on a former president or a committee (it literally depends on the time of day as to which story you will get) or any number of excuses he will roll out there.

The fact is we aren't poor lil ole North Texas anymore. To think we are is living in the past.