I am against the Banner

UNT90 · October 22, 2015

Just imagine the feeling of the players, coaches, recruits, coaching candidates, and the general fanbase if you all were to shelve the 'Fire RV' banner and instead fly the banner we flew over SMU's stadium. The amount of positivity that would envelope the program from all those people knowing that we still support them even in the program's darkest hour would likely be amazing. Just an idea.

And we could hand out participation trophies after the game...

No.

Cr1028 · October 22, 2015

I think you are getting to the root of our problem and why those that want RV gone have a strong argument.
1. After over a decade as our AD, we only have a couple hundred members of the Mean Green Club, so that minority RV has spoken about could actually be the majority of the Mean Green Club.
2. Nobody cares because we lose too much, and those in charge have historically been okay with that.

Nobody cares about the AD because they don't know who he is unless they are a diehard like us. Regular fans don't know or care. They just want to have a good time watching the games.

UNT90 · October 22, 2015

No, it won't. It won't even show up on their radar (cheesy aviation joke).
That's Texas and Miami. It'll get some play from the NT Daily and maybe the DRC only if Vito feel like he wants to rock the boat.
You people don't get how irrelevant we are in the sports world at the moment.

I think it will get some play in local media.

Maybe im wrong.

Cr1028 · October 22, 2015

The banner seems relatively innocuous to me; relatively common event in FBS sports at FBS schools.

What other university has flown a "fire the AD" banner because his coaching hires didn't work out?

UNT94 · October 22, 2015

For too long, UNT athletics has maintained & cultivated a culture without meaningful accountability, so when some are finally saying enough is enough after a decade of repeated on field failures, many aren't prepared or able to handle the added conflict. I get it.

It is much easier to 'go along to get along', which some are desperately requesting now, even at the possible cost of future success... But that's a sacrifice I'm no longer (after 3 decades) willing to accept for this great university.

Sometimes the truth hurts.

Cr1028 · October 22, 2015

And we could hand out participation trophies after the game...
No.

Then what was the point of flying the one over SMU? How is showing support the equivalent of a participation medal? If that is the case then we shouldn't stand or cheer at any games, we should just sit there like it is a symphony.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Cr1028

UNT90 · October 23, 2015

Thank you Harry for writing this. It saved me from writing something similar that wouldn't have been nearly as poignant...or as well-written.
When I was a kid I used to go to a barbershop that had a prayer on the wall. It said, "Lord, fill my mouth with worthwhile stuff and nudge me when I've said enough."
You've said enough and your point has been well taken (or at least taken.) RV, Smatresk, and probably the entire Board of Regents knows how displeased you are. Adding to it is overkill and will only alienate those that you are turning to for help. You are trying to force a decision that they do not want to make in your favor. If they plan to act favorably the banner will have no significance.
RV's contract is up in something like eighteen months. If you were successful in getting Rick removed it would cost the university somewhere in the vicinity of a half-million dollars. And, do you know for a fact that some of the donors who support Villareal would continue to donate? I doubt that. As an example, think of Mattress Mac. To the best of my knowledge he hasn't given another cent to North Texas since Dickey was fired. We could be losing more millions if you are successful in your vindictiveness.
Coach Mac is gone (as he should be). RV acted at, frankly, the right time. Two years ago none of us thought that he was a bad hire. We had just won a bowl game in Dallas in front of nearly 40,000 students and alums. The GPA of his student athletes had risen tremendously. Student participation had improved through orientation. Dan was a good spokesman for UNT. It was a tough year in 2014 but it would have been terrible to have fired him that year. This year, as soon as he realized that the ox wasn't going to get out of the ditch, he pulled the plug.
The vindictiveness toward Rick is personal in my opinion. It's true that he made a couple of bad hires but I believe that the good has far outweighed the bad.
First the good. Rick Villareal has been by far the most productive Athletic Director in our history. Or, at least since Theron Fouts; the AD when I first became a student. Everything in the Mean Green Village has Rick's fingerprints on it. The only things in place when he came here was a dilapidated golf course and a willingness to buy the Liberty Christian property if the price was right. In addition to the new structures and improvements to existing structures that were at LCHS, he was responsible for the learning center, basketball practice facility and forthcoming improvements to the Super Pit. Moving from the Sun Belt to Conference USA also came under his watch. He secured $20 million toward the new stadium and several million dollar donors. I believe that he did all this on a balanced budget.
Maybe CBL is right on this. It could be that the administration owes him the dignity of finishing out his contract.

Speaking for only myself, you are wrong. I'm not trying to force anything. I'm voicing my displeasure after many other, private ways have been completely ignored.

There was an effort made for several mid level donors (definitely not me) to have a meeting with the president to address concerns. There was zero response.

Not a yes. Not a no. Just nothing.

This is a last resort.

And I ask you that aren't in favor of rocking the the boat, when will you ever be?

We just were on the wrong end of the worst loss in college football history. Ever. If this doesn't spur you to some, any kind of action, WHAT IN THE HELL WILL IT TAKE?

The backward thinking in this post that we are still poor little old North Texas that needs to keep 2 big donors happy no matter the cost is very, very, very frustrating. WE AREN'T!

Edited October 23, 2015 by UNT90

Cr1028 · October 23, 2015

It gets people's attention
http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/college-sports/headlines/20150912-anti-steve-patterson-banner-seen-flying-over-austin-before-longhorns-game-vs.-rice.ece
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/anti-al-golden-banner-flies-over-miami-fau-game--photos-001632661.html

I hope you know that Patterson pissed off a way bigger percentage of the UT fanbase than RV could ever hope to do at UNT. That is why Patterson was thrown out and that banner flew. It had zero to do with his hiring of coaches.

Side Show Joe · October 23, 2015

Nobody cares about the AD because they don't know who he is unless they are a diehard like us. Regular fans don't know or care. They just want to have a good time watching the games.

UNT doesn't really have regular fans. Regular fans, or T-shirt fans as I like to call them, follow name programs that win regularly. The diehards are really all we have, because our historical losing hasn't allowed us to develop a regular fan base. See, key points 1 and 2 are very much related.

Also, I don't know any fans that have a good time watching there team get their rears kicked for a decade.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Side Show Joe

UNT90 · October 23, 2015

For too long, UNT athletics has maintained & cultivated a culture without meaningful accountability, so when some are finally saying enough is enough after a decade of repeated on field failures, many aren't prepared or able to handle the added conflict. I get it.
It is much easier to 'go along to get along', which some are desperately requesting now, even at the possible cost of future success... But that's a sacrifice I'm no longer (after 3 decades) willing to accept for this great university.
Sometimes the truth hurts.

A lot of people are terrified of confrontation. Of any type.

Rest assured absent a resignation or a major shift in the opinion of this fan base, that banner is flying.

Edited October 23, 2015 by UNT90

Cr1028 · October 23, 2015

UNT doesn't really have regular fans. Regular fans, or T-shirt fans as I like to call them, follow name programs that win regularly. The diehards are really all we have, because our historical losing hasn't allowed us to develop a regular fan base. See, key points 1 and 2 are very much related.
Also, I don't know any fans that have a good time watching there team get their rears kicked for a decade.

If this push to end RV's career is successful and his replacement turns out to be worse (and living in Austin during the Patterson tenure, I know it could be SO much worse than RV), I hope everyone makes it a point to show that ‌@UNT90 and his posse forced out the most successful AD since Jitter Nolen, maybe ever. You are making a HUGE gamble here, this is a way bigger gamble then just a coach in one of three sports. You could set us back decades.

UNT90 · October 23, 2015

I don't really have an opinion on the banner, but I fail to see how this is any different from creating a firemackbrown.com website or the countless other things fan bases have done to voice their displeasure. Even Idaho is taking action:
Frustrated Idaho Fan Fills Campus With Flyers Calling For Paul Petrino's Firing
Disgruntled Miami fans flew the funniest Al Golden banner over the stadium
Wake Forest fans take out billboard calling for firing of coach Jeff Bzdelik
Michigan fans march on UM president's home calling for the firing of coach Brady Hoke and AD Dave Brandon

Right.

This is what real athletic programs do.

Some just don't want a real athletic program.

Cr1028 · October 23, 2015

Patterson pissed everyone off. The big donors, the small donors.

RV hasn't come close to that.

UNT90 · October 23, 2015

100%. They feel like he personally wronged them.

Actually, anything but. I feel he has done a terrible job at AD, especially after he was given Apogee.

But keep being you and saying I'm afraid to talk to you. Lol.

ColoradoEagle · October 23, 2015

Only 1 winning season in 11 years didn't cause a change. Losing almost the entire basketball fanbase after a bad hire didn't cause a change. Setting a record for worst loss in modern college football history didn't cause a change. Hiring a new president who is supposedly pro-athletics didn't cause a change.

What's the worst this banner could do? "We're definitely not making a change now!" Give me a break.

meanrob · October 23, 2015

If this push to end RV's career is successful and his replacement turns out to be worse (and living in Austin during the Patterson tenure, I know it could be SO much worse than RV), I hope everyone makes it a point to show that ‌@UNT90 and his posse forced out the most successful AD since Jitter Nolen, maybe ever. You are making a HUGE gamble here, this is a way bigger gamble then just a coach in one of three sports. You could set us back decades.

I'll take that chance.

UNT90 · October 23, 2015

If this push to end RV's career is successful and his replacement turns out to be worse (and living in Austin during the Patterson tenure, I know it could be SO much worse than RV), I hope everyone makes it a point to show that ‌@UNT90 and his posse forced out the most successful AD since Jitter Nolen, maybe ever. You are making a HUGE gamble here, this is a way bigger gamble then just a coach in one of three sports. You could set us back decades.

Lol. Let me get this straight. We shouldn't do this banner because it won't make a difference, but if we do and RV gets fired, then it's the banner's fault?

Ok.

And your refusal to dare to be mediocre is really sad. I sincerely hope this isn't the way you approach life.

Edited October 23, 2015 by UNT90

TIgreen01 · October 23, 2015

The man literally called the Dodge hire a good hire. THIS WEEK!

Fly the damned thing.

#Itsallajoke

Edited October 23, 2015 by TIgreen01

rcade · October 23, 2015

If this push to end RV's career is successful and his replacement turns out to be worse (and living in Austin during the Patterson tenure, I know it could be SO much worse than RV), I hope everyone makes it a point to show that ‌@UNT90 and his posse forced out the most successful AD since Jitter Nolen, maybe ever. You are making a HUGE gamble here, this is a way bigger gamble then just a coach in one of three sports. You could set us back decades.

He isn't the most successful AD in terms of wins and losses in the major sports.

The stadium and other facilities improvements aren't going away after he's gone. What form is the dire setback going to take? You can't possibly argue that firing RV will cost us wins, because he's never delivered them. Will all the big donors go away because they're too emotionally invested in RV's factory of failure?

UNTDoc · October 23, 2015

I hope you know that Patterson pissed off a way bigger percentage of the UT fanbase than RV could ever hope to do at UNT. That is why Patterson was thrown out and that banner flew. It had zero to do with his hiring of coaches.

That has more to do with the apathy of the UNT fans given the years of mediocrity rather than the quality of job done by either Patterson or RV.

UNT90 · October 23, 2015

Will all the big donors go away because they're too emotionally invested in RV's factory of failure?

If they do, that's fine.

An effective AD will cultivate 3 times as many new big donors.

UNTexas · October 23, 2015

How much needs to be raised to fly it at the UTEP game? In case they forget to fire RV.

Edited October 23, 2015 by UNTexas

Cr1028 · October 23, 2015

Lol. Let me get this straight. We shouldn't do this banner because it won't make a difference, but if we do and RV gets fired, then it's the banner's fault?
Ok.
And your refusal to dare to be mediocre is really sad. I sincerely hope this isn't the way you approach life.

I don't go off half-cocked. I take calculated risks. You don't quit a job before you have your next job. Firing RV is not a calculated risk. You need to make damn sure you have something better lined up before you get rid of the one that brought you a standard of living you've never had before.

Side Show Joe · October 23, 2015

I agree, RV may be the best AD UNT has ever had, yet look where are programs are at. The embarrassing 66-7 loss to Portland State has sent our athletics back to square one. We can't get set back any further. Under RV's leadership we are annually losing in every major sport and have become a laughing stock in football. No one should be comfortable with him making this hire.

In the grand scheme of things, we really aren't risking much. No university that is serious about athletics would expect their fans base to tolerate this.

No one is arguing that RV should never hold another job. I hope he does go on to have success somewhere.

Cr1028 · October 23, 2015

He isn't the most successful AD in terms of wins and losses in the major sports.
The stadium and other facilities improvements aren't going away after he's gone. What form is the dire setback going to take? You can't possibly argue that firing RV will cost us wins, because he's never delivered them. Will all the big donors go away because they're too emotionally invested in RV's factory of failure?

He has had ONE football hire with the stadium in place and the previous hire you all rip on so much helped get the thing built

That has more to do with the apathy of the UNT fans given the years of mediocrity rather than the quality of job done by either Patterson or RV.

Right but I'll bet if a new AD brought the second coming of Hayden Fry in while doubling your season ticket price and taking away your parking pass, you wouldn't be very happy.