I am against the Banner

[foutsrouts]

I disagree with the banner ! I too am a LONG TIME passionate UNT fan, alum and I am also frustrated with the poor management of our football and basketball programs. But I think that the problem includes RV yet  is bigger than RV. The BOR and the Administration have never fully pumped the athletic program the way a Division I University requires in order to be competitive more often than not.  A firm decision from the Board, the President and the Administrative leadership CAN AND WILL put UNT over the top but for some reason (?) they timidly drag their feet.  UNT can win consistently as well as fill Apogee and the Pit regularly and showcase UNT, however  all the Head Coach and AD replacements will only  continue to mean nothing without REAL COMITTMENT from the BOR, President and administrative leadership .  No, I am not for the banner, it's short sighted and misses the larger problem. 

But isn't the banner intended to function as a wake up call for EVERYONE at the top? I mean, the individuals above RV are the ones who are being asked to execute his termination, so I would think that the banner is directed at them more than at just RV.

This culture of accepting athletic mediocrity has just got to stop, and sometimes a little open rebellion is the only way to affect change. I admit that I have somewhat mixed feelings about it, but actions often speak louder than words. Especially when your words are being ignored. 

 

[Tyler Maryak]

I would love it if there were a very public way to take the money that was set aside for this banner and re-purposed for something productive.  A way for a message to be sent very clearly to RV, Smaetresk, and the BoR saying, "We have such passionate fans that we raised $2,000 in less than 24 hours.  We are a resource you are not adequately tapping and major change is required if you ever want to do so.  We wanted to shame you for your shortcomings, but we have instead chosen to contribute to productive change.  Please do not squander our gift or make us regret our generosity."

I imagine that them seeing these articles about the banner makes them think, "Jeeze, these wackos again.  Thank God we ignore them."  Redirecting the funds to something that is supportive of them would, in my opinion, stand a good chance of altering their perspective.  "Oh, maybe they're more level-headed than I gave them credit for.  They used their frustrations not to spite us, but focused their energy to further the university's cause."

I know many of us have been burned so many times that this seems incredibly far-fetched, but I think the odds of my scenario are still more likely than the likelihood of positive change resulting from this banner flying.

[Graddean]

Fly the banner.  It will be on FOX1 and ESPN.  Amid all the snickering, it just takes us down a road we don't want.

[UNTexas]

I think the banner shows there are passionate people who care. 

Edited October 22, 2015 by UNTexas

[meanrob]

I'm against the banner but this "Remain calm, all is well" bullshit pisses me off too. RV made his bed.

I don't know how a lot of you moved on from 66-7 so quickly. I'm still considering whether to bail off this ship completely. A banner is ridiculous but if that loss doesn't change anything, nothing will. It's more than just Mac that needs to go. Much more. 

Edit: I'm not against the banner, I would just employ other means. Which, probably wouldn't go over well either. 

 

Edited October 23, 2015 by meanrob

[TheTastyGreek]

 

 

[Stan R]

Harry... blink 3 times if RV has you kidnapped somewhere in the Athletic Center.  We'll send lassie out to find you. 

[Aldo]

It gets people's attention

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/college-sports/headlines/20150912-anti-steve-patterson-banner-seen-flying-over-austin-before-longhorns-game-vs.-rice.ece 

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/anti-al-golden-banner-flies-over-miami-fau-game--photos-001632661.html 

[Ben Gooding]

But isn't the banner intended to function as a wake up call for EVERYONE at the top? I mean, the individuals above RV are the ones who are being asked to execute his termination, so I would think that the banner is directed at them more than at just RV.

This culture of accepting athletic mediocrity has just got to stop, and sometimes a little open rebellion is the only way to affect change. I admit that I have somewhat mixed feelings about it, but actions often speak louder than words. Especially when your words are being ignored. 

 

That's exactly what it is. The pro-RV people are going to defend RV to the end of the cliff and even jump if RV says to. This is more about above RV than it is actual RV himself. 

[foutsrouts]

I would love it if there were a very public way to take the money that was set aside for this banner and re-purposed for something productive.  A way for a message to be sent very clearly to RV, Smaetresk, and the BoR saying, "We have such passionate fans that we raised $2,000 in less than 24 hours.  We are a resource you are not adequately tapping and major change is required if you ever want to do so.  We wanted to shame you for your shortcomings, but we have instead chosen to contribute to productive change.  Please do not squander our gift or make us regret our generosity."

I imagine that them seeing these articles about the banner makes them think, "Jeeze, these wackos again.  Thank God we ignore them."  Redirecting the funds to something that is supportive of them would, in my opinion, stand a good chance of altering their perspective.  "Oh, maybe they're more level-headed than I gave them credit for.  They used their frustrations not to spite us, but focused their energy to further the university's cause."

I know many of us have been burned so many times that this seems incredibly far-fetched, but I think the odds of my scenario are still more likely than the likelihood of positive change resulting from this banner flying.

Graffiti artists could probably be had for a couple of hundred, but we have far too much class for that.

[rcade]

Any potential coach would see this banner and think "oh great-if I screw up then their "fan" base is going to publicly humiliate me the same way" and not even give UNT a second glance.

If that was true, none of the SEC schools would ever get a coach. Living here in Florida, I can say that the fan bases are 100 times tougher on their coaches and ADs in times of adversity than Mean Green Nation has ever been. If you cultivate a fan base in the FBS and convince enough people to care, you're going to catch hell when the team stinks. 

[817Fan]

Just imagine the feeling of the players, coaches, recruits, coaching candidates, and the general fanbase if you all were to shelve the 'Fire RV' banner and instead fly the banner we flew over SMU's stadium. The amount of positivity that would envelope the program from all those people knowing that we still support them even in the program's darkest hour would likely be amazing. Just an idea.

Good Lord!! Participation ribbons for everybody.

You know what would envelope me with positivity??? RV getting relieved of his AD duties so we can move on from this debacle .

Edited October 22, 2015 by 817Fan

[MeanGreenTexan]

How about a compromise banner?

"Go Mean Green, We Love You! Except you RV, except you."

Please run for political office soon.  We need more people like you in Washington/Austin who can compromise in such innovative ways.

[Aldo]

Well said @TheTastyGreek, nay, 'nuff said.

But now, I need new eyeballs. And if more than 1 person quotes those planes, so help me...

[meanJewGreen]

I would love it if there were a very public way to take the money that was set aside for this banner and re-purposed for something productive.  A way for a message to be sent very clearly to RV, Smaetresk, and the BoR saying, "We have such passionate fans that we raised $2,000 in less than 24 hours.  We are a resource you are not adequately tapping and major change is required if you ever want to do so.  We wanted to shame you for your shortcomings, but we have instead chosen to contribute to productive change.  Please do not squander our gift or make us regret our generosity."

I imagine that them seeing these articles about the banner makes them think, "Jeeze, these wackos again.  Thank God we ignore them."  Redirecting the funds to something that is supportive of them would, in my opinion, stand a good chance of altering their perspective.  "Oh, maybe they're more level-headed than I gave them credit for.  They used their frustrations not to spite us, but focused their energy to further the university's cause."

I know many of us have been burned so many times that this seems incredibly far-fetched, but I think the odds of my scenario are still more likely than the likelihood of positive change resulting from this banner flying.

We aren't Texas or A&M. We had maybe 500 fans show up at the start of the Portland State game... on homecoming. Beyond his hires, many people claim about the unprofessionalism of the athletic department- how they aren't motivated to sell tickets or misplace them, when right now is the time we need to be packing as many fans as possible in the stadium. We look at the MGC- 72,000 new alumni yet few in the MGC. Complacency should not be an option. There should be at least 5,000 members in the MGC but there isn't, and that's on the athletic department. 

They can't ignore us like they do TexAgs, or Burnt Orange Nation, because if we don't show up, who will? 

[VideoEagle]

Well said @TheTastyGreek, nay, 'nuff said.

But now, I need new eyeballs. And if more than 1 person quotes those planes, so help me...

I want to +1 Tasty, but don't really want to quote all of those planes. Now, if they where in formation, say making the interlocking NT ...

 

[TheTastyGreek]

Well said @TheTastyGreek, nay, 'nuff said.

But now, I need new eyeballs. And if more than 1 person quotes those planes, so help me...

The medium was, in no small part, a key component of the message. 

But, don't worry. That sucked, and I'll never do it again. 

[EagleMBA]

+1 Bazillion. That was a super effort and encapsulates the major points that have been made. I commend you, Sir.

Now I'm going to sign off and call my eye doctor to make an appointment. Seriously. It has been over a year since I've been to his office  and you can take credit for motivating me.

[meangreenbob]

 

Where you been?---sarcasm-

 

How in hell anyone thinks an hour long fly over is in anyway going to embarrass this university and it's AD any more than 0-6 and PSU 66- NT 7 is beyond me?

 

Only at North Texas.

 

Rick

Amen!    Fly the Banner!!

[Tyler Maryak]

@TheTastyGreek I didn't want to read it at first because it was hard and I like to give up quickly (also because I am still seeing wavy green stripes after reading it).  I'm glad I did, though.  I think you nailed it.  I wish you would alter so it is addressed to the president and I would do everything in my power to hand deliver it to him on game day.

[Army of Dad]

I am against the banner.  I think it is petty and mean spirited.   I contributed to the banner we flew in support of the team at SMU.  I will not contribute to this.  I said as much last night on the podcast but I feel compelled to put it down in words.

I understand and respect the right of people to voice their opinions and believe in free speech.  But this thing has gone too far.  If the major press picks up on this, I believe it it will ultimately embarrass and humiliate the university.  So I implore the fans who are participating in this misguided project to please step down.  Lay down your sword.  You've made your position known -- you don't have to turn the knife again.  Stop it now before more damage is done.

That figurative sword was thrust upon the banner people by the figurative middle fingers RV's been shooting the fanbase. (you saw the NT Daily quotes, right?) It's probably too late to avoid this and quite frankly, RV brought this upon himself. If he is hurt by it then he has no one to blame but himself. He will, of course, blame others. Like the Geico commercials say, when you are Rick Villareal you blame other people for not getting your job done, it's what you do.

My advisement is you put your faith in the leadership at UNT and in this case that is our President Dr. Smatresk.   He may not be responding to every letter and email (God forbid he has a pretty busy job), but I believe he is listening and taking it into his account.  He is not ignoring you.  This is the honorable way to deal with this situation.  If you did not like the way he responded to your first letter write another one.  Call his office, Call the BOR Call Lee Jackson whoever, but please do not air our dirty laundry publicly for all to see (including future coaches).

 He has a very funny way of showing it.

I would like us to land the very best football coach that we can, and I think we can do that.  The president obviously believes that we are best positioned to do that with RV at the helm or he would have already made a change.   This whole Flag thing takes away from that very important coaching discussion -- which I believe is a whole lot more important in the grand scheme of things.  As CBL wisely pointed out there could be other things going on behind the scenes that require the leadership to handle this particular situation as they are.  As hard as it may be we need to trust them to do the right thing.

Define best coach we can get. I think you mean the best coach we can get with RV at the helm and not the best coach UNT could get. They are not the same thing, IMO.

Many of you state you tried to contact Smatresk and since he did not respond directly to you this Flag is your only option.  I don't think that is true, rather it is just an excuse to try to humiliate RV publicly.  And if it is truly the reason, should this not be a fire Smatresk flag?  I mean, isn't he the one who is not responding to your concerns?  Is not he the one who made the decision to keep RV in his position?  Why does Smatresk get a pass here?  I think the answer is it does not fit your agenda

Smatresk isn't 1-5-1 in AD hires at UNT, he doesn't need a 'Fire Smatresk ' banner and after what, 18 months, on the job it would be premature for almost anyone (Benford is one exception).

The banner will hurt RV personally more than anything else.  There is a feeding frenzy that is getting ugly here.  Believe me --  I understand people are frustrated -  but I honestly believe this is not the way to handle it.  In fact, I will say it now, not one good thing will come of this.. not one good thing.  I also think it will bring more negativity to our University in this very short window we have to hire a good coach.  And let me be clear -- I don't think it will change a thing.  The money could be spent in better ways in my opinion.

Maybe it won't do any good, but it's never been tried before and all the other avenues that have been tried haven't effected a change. Again, something like this was bound to happen as the school has grown.  You know me well enough to know that Florida is my number one college team and I adopted UNT after living here for years. This is small potatoes compared to what happens at "big time" schools. I'm kinda shocked no one has been putting 'For sale' signs in his yard! (also still pretty tame)

There are only two home games left. Those events are windows to the university and if the banner people want to make any real impact they are their last best shots until next football season (at which point it will be too late anyway-RV will have made two more major sports hires-or worse yet, extended Benford). Rick has brought this upon himself, if he had even attempted to be humble or admit things could have been done better, fixed the repeated ticketing issues, schedule, and most topical, hiring he wouldn't be in this mess and neither would this fan base or this school.

[laxtonto]

I am going to repost this here because in many ways it is a much better counterpoint to many of the points here vs where it ended up in the  dying gofundme thread and I am at the point that I just dont have the patience with this entire topic to rehash my views.

 

As it sits, many are taking issue with the fact that RV has done an absolute piss poor job of hiring personnel in the revenue sports, and yet we should agree that he should maintain his position while UNT is arguably making its most important hire in a decade? Does that not sound completely misguided to anyone else and beyond that fiscally irresponsible? If you are going to have to provide complete oversight for this decision and have the President of the university babysit this search, then RV should no longer maintain his position because he has deemed too incompetent to do his job. If you are not and will just rubber stamp his choice, you are implying that you have faith in his ability to find the next coach on his own, which has already been heavily questioned. The President has many more important issues he should be dealing with and if he cannot trust his AD to do his job, then why are we paying him? There is no longer any middle ground because the university and Athletic Department has already removed any other potential balancing forces on this.

RV has done a lot for this university, but he is now unfit to continue to lead the Athletic Department. Like in any business environment, things change and you must adapt. The landscape he was hired to work in has radically changed and he has not adapted to it. His dedication to get UNT off the ground and into the realm of big time athletics, both in affiliation and facilities, should be lauded. That does not supersede the other issues at hand.  As the head of an organization, he ultimately is the one who takes the blame and the one who receives the credit. Past accolades only get you so far in life and unfortunately he has used up his existing goodwill.

Beyond just his inability to succeed in the hiring process, there are many other major flaws that seem to get a pass. I have been concerned with to the poor handling of the MGC, the sad out reach to the young alumni and overall lack of interaction from the AD as a whole. I am in academia and have interacted with multiple Athletic Departments from around the country. UNT has by far the least responsive and least active group I have dealt with. I receive more emails and direct mailers from universities I interviewed at for faculty positions than those from the UNT AD each year. As an example, I know more than 2 dozen recent business doctoral graduates, and none where contacted by the AD for future donations. You do realize that that is dozens of new grads making over 100k a year with some portion of disposable income with no interaction from the AD. That is just one simple example of many I can think of off the top of my head. The lack of an active funding drive is in many ways sad and is a poor reflection of both the organization of the AD and the effort of RV's assembled staff. There are many things that can be tied to luck or wrong place/wrong time, but poor effort is inexcusable.

Between my wife and I we have 6 degrees from this university. I am a former college athlete and am considered to be one of the "experts" in my field. I pride myself in the ability to make complex rational business decisions and I look at this entire debacle through the lens of what I consider best for my al ma matter. We have suspended whatever donations we will give to UNT athletics and will no longer support the Athletic Department as it is currently constructed. I was a non-revenue sport athlete, and I know how much withdrawing funding hurts those areas specifically, but this is the only voice I have to use that will get heard.

We only really control one variable in our lives, and that is the variable "t" for time. By letting this take its course or work through the process we waste much of that precious commodity. Unfortunately I am at the point that not only do I agree that RV needs to be ousted, but his previous poor management of personnel screams that something like the banner MUST be done to attempt to force a change at Athletic Director before this hire is concluded and not after. If we are to be considered the minority or the lunatic fringe, then so be it.

Edited October 22, 2015 by laxtonto

[TheTastyGreek]

@TheTastyGreek I didn't want to read it at first because it was hard and I like to give up quickly (also because I am still seeing wavy green stripes after reading it).  I'm glad I did, though.  I think you nailed it.  I wish you would alter so it is addressed to the president and I would do everything in my power to hand deliver it to him on game day.

If you're trying to imply that airplane banners were potentially not the best way to get my message across to people... Maybe you're right! 

[GRN-WHT]

Fly the banner.  It will be on FOX1 and ESPN. 

No, it won't. It won't even show up on their radar (cheesy aviation joke).

It gets people's attention

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/college-sports/headlines/20150912-anti-steve-patterson-banner-seen-flying-over-austin-before-longhorns-game-vs.-rice.ece 

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/anti-al-golden-banner-flies-over-miami-fau-game--photos-001632661.html 

That's Texas and Miami. It'll get some play from the NT Daily and maybe the DRC only if Vito feel like he wants to rock the boat.

You people don't get how irrelevant we are in the sports world at the moment.

[Got5onIt]

Well, I'm definitely surprised by this. I will say that I don't think this is counterproductive and it shows some people do give a damn. Are there better ways to show you care? Of course, there will always be better ways. But this is slap in the face to a person who deserves to be slapped, IMO. Go back and read the NTdaily interview with RV and then think about the banner.