I am against the Banner

[Greendylan]

no...a rush job does not have to be bad. there's some latin on my degree that proves that...but given a week or given a day to complete a task, I'd wager a higher success rate on the week. would you disagree? 
again...I'm not backing RV. I thought he deserved to go once it became apparent Tony Benford was a disaster (so like, 2 games into his tenure). and I certainly don't like the man...in my handful of interactions I've always found him arrogant and, quite frankly, not all that bright. but this whole banner thing appears to me to be neither the proper or even an effective mechanism for removing him.

I mean...so you fly the banner...there it is, "Fire Rick Villareal" buzzing around Apogee for an hour before kick. you point it out to evereve

Braggart.

 

If a few disgruntled message board conspirators and a couple thousand dollars have the power to handcuff our university's president for years from making a decision he otherwise deems necessary while also instigating waves of zeus-like retribution from RV and his merry band of millionaires, then we are doomed regardless.  

The negative effects of the banner:  RV rolls his eyes and gets annoyed for a minute before having a good laugh with Smatresk and other VIPs.

 

The positives:  minimal.  But, it does demonstrate a small step toward culture change.  It shows that some fans who might not have millions still have a fire in their bellies and want to find some way--any way--to get proactive about change.  Or, of course, we could just all retreat into the safety of indifference like 99% of our UNT friends from college did years ago.  It would be more polite, I suppose.

[UNT90]

Braggart.

 

If a few disgruntled message board conspirators and a couple thousand dollars have the power to handcuff our university's president for years from making a decision he otherwise deems necessary while also instigating waves of zeus-like retribution from RV and his merry band of millionaires, then we are doomed regardless.  

The negative effects of the banner:  RV rolls his eyes and gets annoyed for a minute before having a good laugh with Smatresk and other VIPs.

 

The positives:  minimal.  But, it does demonstrate a small step toward culture change.  It shows that some fans who might not have millions still have a fire in their bellies and want to find some way--any way--to get proactive about change.  Or, of course, we could just all retreat into the safety of indifference like 99% of our UNT friends from college did years ago.  It would be more polite, I suppose.

It has already started a very important conversation that RV was trying like hell to avoid. 

And it hasn't flown yet.

Edited October 23, 2015 by UNT90

[pastorgrant]

RV needs to go, but public shaming is an awful thing. 

[Censored by Laurie]

Braggart.

 

If a few disgruntled message board conspirators and a couple thousand dollars have the power to handcuff our university's president for years from making a decision he otherwise deems necessary while also instigating waves of zeus-like retribution from RV and his merry band of millionaires, then we are doomed regardless.  

the word "embarrassing" has been bantered about. I'm not embarrassed by the banner. 

 

I will be if it's effective. 

[Eagle-96]

no...a rush job does not have to be bad. there's some latin on my degree that proves that...but given a week or given a day to complete a task, I'd wager a higher success rate on the week. would you disagree? 
again...I'm not backing RV. I thought he deserved to go once it became apparent Tony Benford was a disaster (so like, 2 games into his tenure). and I certainly don't like the man...in my handful of interactions I've always found him arrogant and, quite frankly, not all that bright. but this whole banner thing appears to me to be neither the proper or even an effective mechanism for removing him.

I mean...so you fly the banner...there it is, "Fire Rick Villareal" buzzing around Apogee for an hour before kick. you point it out to everyone at the tailgate...you high-five one another...you sip your next beer with a real sense of self-satisfaction...you accidentally hold the door for RV on your way out of the men's room and exchange a tense and awkward acknowledgement of the other's presence...you grab Sunday's DRC and maybe even the DMN, flip to page 8 of the Sports Section and cut out that quarter page article on your plane right under the 52-14 loss box score...

then what? what happens Monday morning when you log on here to see that nothing has changed? 

profit

[greenit]

‌@greenjoe, ‌@adman, and ‌@All About UNT.

Is this what the others meant by the law of unintended consequences?

 

 

 

[EagleMBA]

I am actively engaged in part of my Plan B and getting ready for the game so this will be my last post for the day. For another year now, I have season tickets for my safety team... the Dallas Symphony Mean Gold. They have a 16-game home schedule with big names, great stadium, parking underground to avoid bad weather, and great tailgating. They mix up their offense, sometimes coming out in Pops and sometimes as dead white composers. Most importantly for ranking purposes, they very seldom, if ever, have lost. The concessions are a little pricey and this is not a beer crowd, but they do have cheesecake and I usually settle for gin and tonic to drink. The stadium is almost always at least 80% full. The customer service people lavish their attention on me and their fundraising people are so attentive.

The team is playing someone called Cabaret tonight, so I'm told they'll come out in the Pops package and blow them away. It's always nice to drive home with a smile on my face after a satisfying win.

[jacksondf]

I am against the banner.  I think it is petty and mean spirited.   I contributed to the banner we flew in support of the team at SMU.  I will not contribute to this.  I said as much last night on the podcast but I feel compelled to put it down in words.

I understand and respect the right of people to voice their opinions and believe in free speech.  But this thing has gone too far.  If the major press picks up on this, I believe it it will ultimately embarrass and humiliate the university.  So I implore the fans who are participating in this misguided project to please step down.  Lay down your sword.  You've made your position known -- you don't have to turn the knife again.  Stop it now before more damage is done.

I do think many of the participants are good fans and truly believe that this Flag is the right thing to do but I believe they are misguided.  I think this Banner spells out one message very clearly and that message is ANARCHY.  This is not the type of message we need to be communicating when we are trying to hire a new coach who hopefully will take us to the next level.  This is not the message we need to portray to our students and the rest of the world.

My advisement is you put your faith in the leadership at UNT and in this case that is our President Dr. Smatresk.   He may not be responding to every letter and email (God forbid he has a pretty busy job), but I believe he is listening and taking it into his account.  He is not ignoring you.  This is the honorable way to deal with this situation.  If you did not like the way he responded to your first letter write another one.  Call his office, Call the BOR Call Lee Jackson whoever, but please do not air our dirty laundry publicly for all to see (including future coaches).

I would like us to land the very best football coach that we can, and I think we can do that.  The president obviously believes that we are best positioned to do that with RV at the helm or he would have already made a change.   This whole Flag thing takes away from that very important coaching discussion -- which I believe is a whole lot more important in the grand scheme of things.  As CBL wisely pointed out there could be other things going on behind the scenes that require the leadership to handle this particular situation as they are.  As hard as it may be we need to trust them to do the right thing.

Many of you state you tried to contact Smatresk and since he did not respond directly to you this Flag is your only option.  I don't think that is true, rather it is just an excuse to try to humiliate RV publicly.  And if it is truly the reason, should this not be a fire Smatresk flag?  I mean, isn't he the one who is not responding to your concerns?  Is not he the one who made the decision to keep RV in his position?  Why does Smatresk get a pass here?  I think the answer is it does not fit your agenda.

The banner will hurt RV personally more than anything else.  There is a feeding frenzy that is getting ugly here.  Believe me --  I understand people are frustrated -  but I honestly believe this is not the way to handle it.  In fact, I will say it now, not one good thing will come of this.. not one good thing.  I also think it will bring more negativity to our University in this very short window we have to hire a good coach.  And let me be clear -- I don't think it will change a thing.  The money could be spent in better ways in my opinion.

If you will not take my word on this, then how about the courageous former athlete who came on here and spoke from her heart?  I think she eloquently stated the situation far better than I ever could.  It feels wrong...dirty.   I believe deep down, many of the participants don't feel right about this and my hope is they will come to their senses and call this thing off.

GMG

Harry,

Good post.

Two things I try to ask myself before acting on something:

1. Is this the way I would like to be treated?

2. Is it the classy thing to do?  

These questions have saved me from sending a lot of emails or saying things that I would have regretted later.  I think it applies to this situation as well   Not to mention the effect on any recruits visiting the game   

GMG

 

[97and03]

Oh of course Harry is against it. He is afraid that he he speaks against RV then he won't get Rick on the podcast or maybe lose his "media" access. Notice Harry shut down several threads about firing Rick V and then started one of his own in the topic (after saying he locked the threads because they were beating a dead horse).

 

Classic Harry.

[Mike Jackson]

RV should have no say whatsoever in the hiring of our next football or basketball coach, and he should be packing his bags to ride off into the sunset. If you truly want what's best for this university, then this underperforming, in-over-his-head athletic director is not the answer.

RV was a great Sun Belt athletic director, but guess what? We're not in the Sun Belt anymore. 

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7304629/texas-aggies-fire-football-coach-mike-sherman

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7337943/houston-cougar-kevin-sumlin-leaving-texas-aggies

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7905201/texas-aggies-athletic-director-bill-byrne-retires

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8112716/south-carolina-gamecocks-eric-hyman-texas-aggies-athletic-director

 

Standing ovation sir! No one has said it better on the entire Mean Green Forum.  So I don't care how it happens but right now RV should be told he care either serve out his term or resign after the football season for "personal reasons" or retirement.  He absolutely not be involved with the hiring process and the committee be reformed.  He can however be involved with the interviewing of the next AD.  He could provide valuable insight into the job and ask questions the rest the committee or person hiring the next AD may not think of.  With all that said I will donate to another banner for the last game of the season if nothing has changed.  RV CANNOT be allowed to make the next hire and the new head coach should be given assurance that the new AD will be someone he is comfortable with and that unless NCAA violations occur during his first contact his chances of not getting to finish out his first contract are virtually 0% 

 

Harry,

Good post.

Two things I try to ask myself before acting on something:

1. Is this the way I would like to be treated?

2. Is it the classy thing to do?  

These questions have saved me from sending a lot of emails or saying things that I would have regretted later.  I think it applies to this situation as well   Not to mention the effect on any recruits visiting the game   

GMG

 

Pretty good points until the underlined delusional part was added.  Recruits don't have access to the internet?  They aren't aware already that his program is the laughing stock of the FBS level?  They won't see the 15,000-20,000 plus empty seats or the 1,000s students/Apogee beer garden visitors that walk back across the street to their dorms, Frye Street and etc right after kickoff without ever stepping foot in the stadium?  Worrying about the banner's effect on recruits is like a used car salesmen worried more about a bird dropping on a car he is trying to sell more than the transmission on the ground under it and the growing pool of oil around it.  This delusion would be hilarious if it wasn't a huge part of the problem with the "die hard" fans of UNT athletics.  SMH

Because what applies to these recruits applies just the same to head coaching prospect.  Again, still waiting for a logical reason a good coach with options would come here to this toxic coach graveyard without being outrageously overpaid.  Until the people against the banner have answer for that then I am not sure what we are discussing.  We are arguing about how the deck chairs should be rearranged on the Titanic at this point.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Mike Jackson
grammar

[Mike Jackson]

Sunday's DRC and maybe even the DMN, flip to page 8 of the Sports Section and cut out that quarter page article on your plane right under the 52-14 loss box score...

then what? what happens Monday morning when you log on here to see that nothing has changed? 

Maybe we fly the next banner over a local FBS game a large number of our alumni will see.  Well then that wouldn't be a UNT game would it?   Laurie, would like that deck chair push towards the bow or stern?

Edited October 24, 2015 by Mike Jackson

[UNT90]

Just in C-USA, LA Tech and Southern Miss do much more with much smaller athletic budgets.

ULM has beaten both Alabama and Arkansas. With FAR FAR less.

[Greenrex]

Be the Banner you want North Texas to be.

[UNT90]

Be the Banner you want North Texas to be.

Well, we want RV removed, so I think that's what is happening...

[EagleMBA]

Plan B Report -- the DSO Mean Gold kicked Cabaret's ass 97 - 3 and they're now 2 - 0 on the season after drubbing Sinatra six weeks ago. The team believes in byes during the season. We're playing some Hispanic team next Friday, Concierto de Aranjuez. Don't know much about them but it would be a good game to work out the kinks in the Dead White Composers offensive scheme, in preparation for Holst coming in on November 20 (what the hell kind of mascot is the Planets anyway?).

Had a good crowd tonight and momentum is building because we are winning. That, and the fact that the rain didn't matter because the Mean Gold play in a domed stadium. There was plenty of Tanqueray and tonic before the game and the crowd was rowdy...as rowdy as that crowd can get.

[EagleMBA]

Updated Plan B Report -- just got back from a thrilling win by the Dallas Symphony Mean Gold over the Concierto de Aranjuez. DSO is now 3 - 0 on the season, winning 47 - 0. The score was held down by the conductor, who saw to it that the second and third chairs got plenty of action after intermission. The Dead White Composers offensive scheme looks like it will put up a lot of points, just in time for the next game when they must face the mighty Holst. The cheesecake was good.

[GreenAlums]

I'm with Harry on this one. I respect and welcome the passion this topic has raised. I'm ecstatic to see we all care so much. I do, but..... There is a right and wrong way to do it. A banner is embarrassing and absolutely the most juvenile thing I've seen. Pressure Neil, it is in his lap! 

[KRAM1]

I'm with Harry on this one. I respect and welcome the passion this topic has raised. I'm ecstatic to see we all care so much. I do, but..... There is a right and wrong way to do it. A banner is embarrassing and absolutely the most juvenile thing I've seen. Pressure Neil, it is in his lap! 

Just for everyone... It is "Neal" not "Neil.  Perhaps it is autocorrect, but we do need to get the UNT President's name correct.

[rcade]

I'm with Harry on this one. I respect and welcome the passion this topic has raised. I'm ecstatic to see we all care so much. I do, but..... There is a right and wrong way to do it. A banner is embarrassing and absolutely the most juvenile thing I've seen. Pressure Neil, it is in his lap! 

Fans attempted to convince Smatresk privately to replace the AD. Many of us sent emails and letters. To my knowledge, none of us got a reply beyond a "your mail has been received" formality. Instead, RV responded by telling the press that his critics are just a disgruntled "minority."

That's where the impetus for the banner campaign came from. We were being ignored and our complaints weren't being taken seriously.

[untjim1995]

To me, personally, funding the banner is a swan song to this place...my last dime to a department that has basically laughed off the main area of interest I have with the school. 

I think for most of us that funded this thing that it was our last gasp, Hail Mary try to make it clear that the person responsible for this epic failure should not get to hire anyone associated with our athletic department again.  If the administration and BMDs see it differently, it's still a win for most of us. We got our last word out there and the AD and President have to see it and answer questions about it. And more importantly, we have made it clear that we are done with wasting time and money on something that will not be only be wasted epically, but done in an arrogant and derelict fashion. You can raise a millionaire, but his ass makes up one seat...and thousands of empty ones are why we cannot hire anyone decent or attract kids that are legitimate FBS talent as a whole. Who the eff wants to coach for an AD who is a proven loser, coach in front of two-thirds empty stands on many afternoons, and then bring recruits to see us get our asses kicked by teams they've never heard of, such as Western Kentucky and Portland State.

you won't get a winner here again until you get rid of the AD...the last decade is testament to this.

[greenminer]

Fans attempted to convince Smatresk privately to replace the AD. Many of us sent emails and letters. To my knowledge, none of us got a reply beyond a "your mail has been received" formality. Instead, RV responded by telling the press that his critics are just a disgruntled "minority."

That's where the impetus for the banner campaign came from. We were being ignored and our complaints weren't being taken seriously.

I have a hunch that you guys would put this together as long as RV isn't fired, regardless if/how the Prez responds.

[rcade]

I have a hunch that you guys would put this together as long as RV isn't fired, regardless if/how the Prez responds.

That would depend on the president's response. If he had taken RV out of the decision on the next coach, it probably would have satisfied a lot of fans.

Instead, he's shown us very little as a leader. He doesn't respond to any email complaints about athletics -- as far as I can tell -- and he hasn't done anything proactive to acknowledge how deep the problems are in football and basketball. It's like he thinks we'll stop being upset if he waits long enough.

My personal belief is that UNT loses a significant number of longtime fans and boosters if RV makes the next hire and locks us into another 3-5 years of his approach to the money sports. I know I'll be gone if that happens.