I am against the Banner

[UNT90]

He has had ONE football hire with the stadium in place and the previous hire you all rip on so much helped get the thing built

Right but I'll bet if a new AD brought the second coming of Hayden Fry in while doubling your season ticket price and taking away your parking pass, you wouldn't be very happy.

So it's about cheap and never taking a risk in anything.

No wonder you are a UNT fan. 

[rcade]

I don't go off half-cocked. I take calculated risks. You don't quit a job before you have your next job. Firing RV is not a calculated risk. You need to make damn sure you have something better lined up before you get rid of the one that brought you a standard of living you've never had before.

I wouldn't call it half-cocked to decide 5 years ago that McCarney was a make-or-break hire for RV.

Your idea that no AD should be replaced until there's already another waiting in the wings is a bit ridiculous. RV didn't have a coach waiting in the wings when he fired McCarney.

[Cr1028]

I agree, RV may be the best AD UNT has ever had, yet look where are programs are at. The embarrassing 66-7 loss to Portland State has sent our athletics back to square one. We can't get set back any further. Under RV's leadership we are annually losing in every major sport and have become a laughing stock in football. No one should be comfortable with him making this hire.

In the grand scheme of things, we really aren't risking much. No university that is serious about athletics would expect their fans base to tolerate this.

No one is arguing that RV should never hold another job. I hope he does go on to have success somewhere.

It's funny how RV gets credit for that loss because he did what EVERYONE here wanted him to do in firing McCarney.

I wouldn't call it half-cocked to decide 5 years ago that McCarney was a make-or-break hire for RV.

Your idea that no AD should be replaced until there's already another waiting in the wings is a bit ridiculous. RV didn't have a coach waiting in the wings when he fired McCarney.

McCarney didn't have to cultivate million dollar relationships.

[NorthTexan95]

I apologize to many of you.  I ran out of +1's half way through this thread. 

If RV gets fired within the next 6 months it won't be because of the banner.  It'll be because of his record and because the University leadership is finally holding him accountable.  The best the banner will do is make the administration aware that many fans are upset.  As someone posted earlier, we have no idea if the administration realizes how many people are upset specifically with RV (with good cause) and not just upset about this season.  

[UNT90]

It's funny how RV gets credit for that loss because he did what EVERYONE here wanted him to do in firing McCarney.

I mean, are you two related? The only reason I say this is your responses are outside any realm of credibility. 

[Cr1028]

I mean, are you two related? The only reason I say this is your responses are outside any realm of credibility. 

Nope, I met the guy one time at a tailgate in Austin but I noticed the massive difference from 1999 to now and he is the one constant.

[rcade]

He has had ONE football hire with the stadium in place and the previous hire you all rip on so much helped get the thing built

Dodge didn't help build the stadium with anything his teams did on the field.

He was just the new coach who benefited from a fan base willing to greet his arrival with optimism. Any coach we hired would likely have sparked the same sentiment during his honeymoon period.

Grading RV only since the stadium is weak. There are ADs who still don't have facilities like ours that win far more in football and basketball than we have under RV.

[UNT90]

Nope, I met the guy one time at a tailgate in Austin but I noticed the massive difference from 1999 to now and he is the one constant.

Sadly, there is very little difference from 2009 till now.

Thats the problem. 

[Side Show Joe]

It's funny how RV gets credit for that loss because he did what EVERYONE here wanted him to do in firing McCarney.

McCarney didn't have to cultivate million dollar relationships.

That's not why he gets credit for it.

He gets credit for it because he hired Mac and Mac raked up a 4-14 record over the last season and a half. He gets credit for it because it isn't the only example of his lack of hiring ability (Dodge, Benford, Peterson, Stephens,...). He gets credit for it because other ADs do more with much less. And, most importantly, he gets credit for it because it happened under his watch. The buck stops with him. Own it.

It is time for new leadership.

 

[Cr1028]

That's not why he gets credit for it.

He gets credit for it because he hired Mac and Mac raked up a 4-14 record over the last season and a half. He gets credit for it because it isn't the only example of his lack of hiring ability (Dodge, Benford, Peterson, Stephens,...). He gets credit for it because other ADs do more with much less. And, most importantly, he gets credit for it because it happened under his watch. The buck stops with him. Own it.

It is time for new leadership.

Is this speculation or fact? What percentage of the ones that have less, do more?

[Ben Gooding]

Is this speculation or fact? What percentage of the ones that have less, do more?

 

In regards to the most important aspect (winning), almost all of them. 

[10Eagle10]

RV's arrogance is allowing him to destroy the very foundation of all the good things he accomplished. He didn't hang it up and ride off into the sunset when he should've; he stayed in the saddle too long...and our athletic department is getting passed by. If he actually cared about UNT, he would do the right thing and let us hire some new blood.

[Cr1028]

In regards to the most important aspect (winning), almost all of them. 

How many have less and do more? Sun Belt schools? You don't have anything to back up your statement.

[Side Show Joe]

Is this speculation or fact? What percentage of the ones that have less, do more?

 

Just in C-USA, LA Tech and Southern Miss do much more with much smaller athletic budgets.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Side Show Joe

[Mike Jackson]

Harry's concern is about a good coach being scared off by a banner?  Really?  You don't think that the next potential good coach will do his homework and do some online research.  I have never gotten an answer from anyone stating why a good coach with options would chose UNT over other positions with salaries within 30% of what UNT will offer.  People are done Harry and soon you this forum will be a collection of people you have personally met who have interest in the Mean Green.  I have wrote the athletic department, president and alumni association yet the emperor can't even acknowledge some his failures publicly.  This is a toxic situation here and you are living in a dream world if you think a good coach is coming to this toxic situation for anything less than doubling his current salary or outbid a competitive bid by almost 50%.  This program is DEAD as long as RV is at the helm you are just in denial.

[flyingeagle12]

This whole thread drives me crazy. 

Putting pressure on the athletic dept is exactly what it needs right now. If people think this will be embarrassing for us, where have you been?

If a recruit/ coach isn't going to come here over this then it wasn't the right fit. 

[Ben Gooding]

How many have less and do more? Sun Belt schools? You don't have anything to back up your statement.

WINNING. They're winning. Just win. That's what they're doing. We aren't. They are. That's all I need. 

[rcade]

Is this speculation or fact? What percentage of the ones that have less, do more?

Here's a ranking of FBS college football programs by wins the past decade (excluding this season):

http://football.stassen.com/cgi-bin/records/calc-wp.pl?start=2004&end=2014&rpct=30&min=5&ss=on&se=on&by=Wins

UNT is 111th out of 119 teams with a 42-90 record (31.8%).

Around 10 schools still paying $500,000 or less in yearly coaching salary have done appreciably better than us in wins over that span, most notably Northern Illinois (95-50), Toledo (78-59) and Bowling Green (73-65).

The team with the best winning percentage over that span, Boise State, was our conference mate in 2000 in the Big West.

Edited October 23, 2015 by rcade

[laxtonto]

Simple question. If we agree that at the maximum RV will be here for 18 months, why does anyone want to saddle a new coach with a lame duck AD and therefore more than likely having to resell himself to a new AD when he knows he is looking at a situation that he will have an extensive multiyear rebuild? As a new up and coming coach do you want to walk into a position that you know you will essentially be guaranteed to the be the "Old AD's" choice of coach and live under the axe of having to justify a potential extension knowing full well that you will have a short rebuild clock and a big rebuild to accomplish?

 

I ma worried keeping RV dooms UNT to a second tier retread that is in it for the $$ and does not have the youth to build a longterm successful program. I guess damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Ben Gooding]

Simple question. If we agree that at the maximum RV will be here for 18 months, why does anyone want to saddle a new coach with a lame duck AD and therefore more than likely having to resell himself to a new AD when he knows he is looking at a situation that he will have an extensive multiyear rebuild? As a new up and coming coach do you want to walk into a position that you know you will essentially be guaranteed to the be the "Old AD's" choice of coach and live under the axe of having to justify a potential extension knowing full well that you will have a short rebuild clock and a big rebuild to accomplish?

 

I ma worried keeping RV dooms UNT to a second tier retread that is in it for the $$ and does not have the youth to build a longterm successful program. I guess damned if you do, damned if you don't.

^

Thanks to very large part Dan Mccarney, we are in full tilt rebuild mode from the outside eye. A lot of pro RV folks are stating we can't fire him because the lack of stability it will bring to the program. We are 0-6 while giving up 50 a game and scoring 17. There is no stability. None to speak of. Our fan base needs our new AD to make this hire so we can get behind him and the new coach, but also so donors new and old can build excitement about having a new AD and the splash hire he just made. I truly think that a new AD paired with a splash hire doubles MGC membership and increases season ticket sales by 10-15%. If RV is kept, look for MGC membership to double down and season ticket sales to dip 10-15%, minimum. 

[Cr1028]

Just in C-USA, LA Tech and Southern Miss do much more with muchbut smaller athletic budgets.

You may have me with LaTech but Southern Miss was worse than we were in MBB and football last year.

[Side Show Joe]

You may have me with LaTech but Southern Miss was worse than we were in MBB and football last year.

Historically Southern Miss has done much more with much less, and this isn't last year. Southern Miss beat us last season, as well as this year.

[Cr1028]

Here's a ranking of FBS college football programs by wins the past decade (excluding this season):

http://football.stassen.com/cgi-bin/records/calc-wp.pl?start=2004&end=2014&rpct=30&min=5&ss=on&se=on&by=Wins

UNT is 111th out of 119 teams with a 42-90 record (31.8%).

Around 10 schools still paying $500,000 or less in yearly coaching salary have done appreciably better than us in wins over that span, most notably Northern Illinois (95-50), Toledo (78-59) and Bowling Green (73-65).

The team with the best winning percentage over that span, Boise State, was our conference mate in 2000 in the Big West.

Thanks. Nicely laid out. And to your last sentence, if Boise had been in our conference in 2001, Dickey wouldn't have been around to coach in 2002.

[Ben Gooding]

You may have me with LaTech but Southern Miss was worse than we were in MBB and football last year.

For G5 standards, we have highly competitive salaries, well above facilities and are a great academic institution with a large selection of options. In the last 5 years we have been the worse athletic program in the country. We offer a lot more in terms of academics and athletics than the vast majority of G5 universities (some even to do with RV and I am grateful for what he has done) and we are still a very, very bad athletic program in regards to WBB, MBB and football. This is doing far, far less with far, far more. 

[EagleMBA]

What other university has flown a "fire the AD" banner because his coaching hires didn't work out? 

 

I don't know if they flew a banner but Hamilton was fired at the University of Tennessee (how ironic) in large part to his poor coaching decisions.

"On June 7, 2011, Mike Hamilton resigned from his position as the Athletic Director at the University of Tennessee following months of pressure stemming from numerous issues including sanctions levied against the Tennessee basketball program and numerous head coaching changes in the school's major sports. Hamilton's poor leadership, arrogance, and financial mismanagement are viewed by many as the main reason the Vols football program hit an all time low during his tenure, from which it has not recovered. "  Source: Wikipedia