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[rcade]

Yup. No one cares.

If no one cares when we set a record for losing, no one cares when we win either. So if that's how you feel, should we zero out the football budget and put that money into stuff people do care about, like D/FW's home for smooth jazz?

People do care. Fans care, boosters care and school officials care. That's why we built Apogee and are spending millions on football and basketball. 

[Aldo]

Yup. No one cares. If the dramatic flaming wreckage of the onfield product can't turn more heads, I'm not optimistic a prop plane and canvas can either.

This is why we are the minority.

 

[Quoner]

If no one cares when we set a record for losing, no one cares when we win either. So if that's how you feel, should we zero out the football budget and put that money into stuff people do care about, like D/FW's home for smooth jazz?

People do care. Fans care, boosters care and school officials care. That's why we built Apogee and are spending millions on football and basketball. 

We agree that the situation sucks and needs to change, so let me rephrase: It is highly unlikely anything that is being done with a plane and banner is going to cause anything positive to happen if people are not rioting em masse in one of the most embarrassing on field results in our history. I would not mind being wrong about this at all, but the coach being fired seems to be the one action in store for the rest of the season. Handwritten letters, emails, and the removal of funds/attendance seem to be more effective ways to make a point, even if the boogie monster known as the Freedom of Information Act really gets under some people's skin. You all are just repeatedly yelling at a board where a giant poll indicated everyone wants a change. This is Yelp syndrome - you guys just want to the loudest and most special about it. Best of luck and if this gets us what we all want, I'll happily eat an IKEA instruction book or maybe the Bill or Rights.

[ladysoccereagle]

He publicly humiliated us to the tune of 66-7. Then every single news outlet in the country dogpiled on top of us. This will be seen by attendees of the game and local media only. I find it very doubtful that this gets anything close to the publicity that it 1) deserves or 2) 66-7 received. 

Get on the train or get out of the way. 

Guess you don't remember the 6-37 record Dodge held for us over the course of 4 years before The McCarney era...pretty sure we already had the entire country dog piling on top of us then. Weren't we ranked last out of all the FBS teams at one point yea? 

I don't appreciate being told to "get on the train or get out of the way" because truth be told I still went to all of those awful games at Fouts for 4 years and STILL bought season tickets once Apogee opened and proudly show my UNT support whenever possible, so to say that I've actually been ahead of said train is a fair assessment. 

I did say that I wasn't opposed to the firing of RV and going in a new direction-I'm all for it. I merely don't agree with using our game (pre-kickoff or not) as the public platform for getting this point across. Will I still be at tailgating on Halloween? Yes. Will I probably take a picture if I see the banner? Yes. But I don't support putting down another human being, just because we are able to. Call me compassionate. 

As always, Go Mean Green! 

[FirefightnRick]

There sure are a lot of people caring about a banner that supposedly no one cares about.

 

Rick

[rcade]

It is highly unlikely anything that is being done with a plane and banner is going to cause anything positive to happen if people are not rioting em masse in one of the most embarrassing on field results in our history.

Nobody knows what the tipping point will be to get an AD out until the AD is out. The banner shows that fans are pissed. Will other fans find ways to show they also want RV out? Unclear.

People have tried the other things you've mentioned now and in the past. We're still mired in mediocrity and RV's still here, so new things are being tried.

[Army of Dad]

Guess you don't remember the 6-37 record Dodge held for us over the course of 4 years before The McCarney era...pretty sure we already had the entire country dog piling on top of us then. Weren't we ranked last out of all the FBS teams at one point yea? 

1. I don't appreciate being told to "get on the train or get out of the way" because truth be told I still went to all of those awful games at Fouts for 4 years and STILL bought season tickets once Apogee opened and proudly show my UNT support whenever possible, so to say that I've actually been ahead of said train is a fair assessment. 

I did say that I wasn't opposed to the firing of RV and going in a new direction-I'm all for it. I merely don't agree with using our game (pre-kickoff or not) as the public platform for getting this point across. Will I still be at tailgating on Halloween? Yes. Will I probably take a picture if I see the banner? Yes. 2. But I don't support putting down another human being, just because we are able to. Call me compassionate. 

As always, Go Mean Green! 

1. Nor should you. Some posters have sharp elbows, and not all of them are as blunt about it as Ben.

2. You must have been the nicest player on the field!

[rcade]

Guess you don't remember the 6-37 record Dodge held for us over the course of 4 years before The McCarney era...pretty sure we already had the entire country dog piling on top of us then. Weren't we ranked last out of all the FBS teams at one point yea? 

For a young alumnus, you are getting a good start on painful memories of UNT's football woes. There's no better subject of debate on GMG than to compare two miserable eras to decide which one was worst.

I applaud your willingness to endure such suffering while still asserting your undying love of the Mean Green. Just remember to pace yourself. Don't suffer so much so quickly that you burn out. Being a long-suffering UNT fan is a marathon, not a sprint.

[Quoner]

Nobody knows what the tipping point will be to get an AD out until the AD is out. The banner shows that fans are pissed. Will other fans find ways to show they also want RV out? Unclear.

People have tried the other things you've mentioned now and in the past. We're still mired in mediocrity and RV's still here, so new things are being tried.

Oh, RV is pissed and so are his buddies, which I think is all a bunch of you want. You're also making it incredibly easy for RV and anyone else to paint a picture of this being the work of message board people with insane posting histories, vendettas, and tagalongs, even if everyone supporting this doesn't see it that way (and that's not how some of you really are.) The banner will fly, we'll have some laughs and then the sun will come up and you know who will still be the AD?

But whatever, I'm all for hilariously personal trolling for entertainment's sake and selfishly cannot wait to see this play out.

[Ben Gooding]

Guess you don't remember the 6-37 record Dodge held for us over the course of 4 years before The McCarney era...pretty sure we already had the entire country dog piling on top of us then. Weren't we ranked last out of all the FBS teams at one point yea? 

I don't appreciate being told to "get on the train or get out of the way" because truth be told I still went to all of those awful games at Fouts for 4 years and STILL bought season tickets once Apogee opened and proudly show my UNT support whenever possible, so to say that I've actually been ahead of said train is a fair assessment. 

I did say that I wasn't opposed to the firing of RV and going in a new direction-I'm all for it. I merely don't agree with using our game (pre-kickoff or not) as the public platform for getting this point across. Will I still be at tailgating on Halloween? Yes. Will I probably take a picture if I see the banner? Yes. But I don't support putting down another human being, just because we are able to. Call me compassionate. 

As always, Go Mean Green! 

Well, climb aboard. There is plenty of room. This plane shines 0 negative light on the University of North Texas. That is not the intent. The underline intent is to improve athletics so we can improve the perception of our university in its entirety. GMG

[EagleMBA]

Oh, RV is pissed and so are his buddies, which I think is all a bunch of you want. You're also making it incredibly easy for RV and anyone else to paint a picture of this being the work of message board people with insane posting histories, vendettas, and tagalongs, even if everyone supporting this doesn't see it that way (and that's not how some of you really are.) The banner will fly, we'll have some laughs and then the sun will come up and you know who will still be the AD?

 

This is just the next step in the gradual escalation, as I see it. Or do you think this is a one-trick pony?

[rcade]

Oh, RV is pissed and so are his buddies, which I think is all a bunch of you want.

I don't have a goal of pissing off RV and his big-donor buddies. I just want him out.

If you asked RV whether firing McCarney was personal, he'd say it wasn't. This isn't personal either. If I met RV I'd be nice to him. I'd even be willing to carry a box of his personal belongings from his desk to his car.

RV and RV supporters were always going to respond to a public call to fire him by saying it was just crazy Internet shut-ins, a "minority" of fans, yadda yadda.

But it doesn't matter what RV thinks. It matters what Smatresk and the board think. The hope is that they'll see enough signs of our discontent to decide that it's time to stop carrying water for an AD whose football coaches are 28-72.

Edited October 22, 2015 by rcade

[Quoner]

This is just the next step in the gradual escalation, as I see it. Or do you think this is a one-trick pony?

It better not be. If there's not a billboard, a wrapped van that hands out fire RV merchandise or a ton of people who attend the Halloween game dressed as jobless RV, then what the hell are you all even doing?

[GreenTexan13]

Oh, RV is pissed and so are his buddies, which I think is all a bunch of you want.

Tapthe brakes on that one. That is were a lot of you are thinking this is a personal attack on the guy. That we personally hate RV's Guts and we wish eternal bad luck on the guy. That is not it at all. This is about an outcry to the University (especially the president) that we are not going to be ignored anymore. We are tired of the same ol' UNT is mediocre and will never amount to anything in the major sports field.

Idk if you all have heard us before.... But we tried the "keep it between the president and ourselves approach". We wrote letters, social media posts, and emails...

Edited October 22, 2015 by GreenTexan13

[ladysoccereagle]

1. Nor should you. Some posters have sharp elbows, and not all of them are as blunt about it as Ben.

2. You must have been the nicest player on the field!

Maybe not the nicest player as I do recall some hair pulling back in the day (oops?) :) the intensity of living in a "win or be fired" situation for years does make for a calmer compassionate "retirement" though 

[Censored by Laurie]

Idk if you all have heard us before.... But we tried the "keep it between the president and ourselves approach". We wrote letters, social media posts, and emails...

and the president of a university didn't immediately write you back personally? 

[GreenTexan13]

and the president of a university didn't immediately write you back personally? 

No, but the AD does...

I also sent my first letter back in March, before the real shit hit the fan . Never heard from anyone... A 2 page letter... I don't think 7 months classifies as immediately...

Edited October 22, 2015 by GreenTexan13

[EagleMBA]

It better not be. If there's not a billboard, a wrapped van that hands out fire RV merchandise or a ton of people who attend the Halloween game dressed as jobless RV, then what the hell are you all even doing?

God you're good! Your creative mind overfloweth. Thanks for sharing.

[rcade]

and the president of a university didn't immediately write you back personally? 

You're oversimplifying to make us seem ridiculous.

I didn't expect a personal reply, but I did expect to see some signs that we're being heard. Instead, Smatresk is saying the standard things a president says before an AD hires a coach and Villarreal is talking as if his coaches have been 72-28 instead of 28-72.

If Villarreal and/or Smatresk didn't want our discontent to grow, one or both could put themselves out there to make statements that (a) acknowledge the long and deep mediocrity in which our top sports are mired and (b) try to persuade fans on why the future will be different.

Instead, it all sounds like it did when Dodge was fired, except now we're wasting Apogee instead of waiting to move into it.

[Army of Dad]

and the president of a university didn't immediately write you back personally? 

There isn't much time to wait for the president to do something before RV hires again since there are only two major outdoor event left this year. 

If the president is playing a long game on RV it will likely end too late to stop RV from hiring a new football coach and a new basketball coach (unless he extends Benford and I think we can agree that would be a mistake as well). If (and it's a pretty big if) the president is waiting for RV to hang himself with the extra rope Smatresk is giving him it is likely to kill the two money sports for another 3-5 years...

That's asking for a ton of patience from a long suffering fan base.

[UNT90]

There sure are a lot of people caring about a banner that supposedly no one cares about.

 

Rick

And a lot of new people involved in the conversation, which I view as a very good thing.

[ladysoccereagle]

And a lot of new people involved in the conversation, which I view as a very good thing.

Agreed. I think we all want to see a change. The message is loud and clear, we just agree to disagree regarding how the message is delivered, but in a respectful manner. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

He publicly humiliated us to the tune of 66-7. Then every single news outlet in the country dogpiled on top of us. This will be seen by attendees of the game and local media only. I find it very doubtful that this gets anything close to the publicity that it 1) deserves or 2) 66-7 received. 

Get on the train or get out of the way. 

Wait,
I thought the banner was going to take aim at Rick Villareal?   You're apparently talking about Dan McCarney... who is already gone.

All aboard the Fire Rick Villareal train!  Apparently it's not going anywhere according to the president of the University and the big donors, but people are still spending 1000's of dollars and ranting incessantly to get it moving.

[UNT90]

Agreed. I think we all want to see a change. The message is loud and clear, we just agree to disagree regarding how the message is delivered, but in a respectful manner. 

Correct. And you are new, so let me apologize for Ben Gooding. Like all of us, I'm sure he is well intentioned, just a little immature in his expression. 

Wait,I thought the banner was going to take aim at Rick Villareal?   You're apparently talking about Dan McCarney... who is already gone.

All aboard the Fire Rick Villareal train!  Apparently it's not going anywhere according to the president of the University and the big donors, but people are still spending 1000's of dollars and ranting incessantly to get it moving.

So you think RV has no accountability for any coach he hires? Interesting.

Let me remind you that was the worst loss in the history of college football.

Ever. 

And you are saying the athletic director with a history of bad to terrible hires bares no responsibility? 

[laxtonto]

As it sits, many are taking issue with the fact that RV has done an absolute piss poor job of hiring personnel in the revenue sports, and yet we should agree that he should maintain his position while UNT is arguably making its most important hire in a decade? Does that not sound completely misguided to anyone else and beyond that fiscally irresponsible? If you are going to have to provide complete oversight for this decision and have the President of the university babysit this search, then RV should no longer maintain his position because he has deemed too incompetent to do his job. If you are not and will just rubber stamp his choice, you are implying that you have faith in his ability to find the next coach on his own, which has already been heavily questioned. The President has many more important issues he should be dealing with and if he cannot trust his AD to do his job, then why are we paying him? There is no longer any middle ground because the university and Athletic Department has already removed any other potential balancing forces on this.

RV has done a lot for this university, but he is now unfit to continue to lead the Athletic Department. Like in any business environment, things change and you must adapt. The landscape he was hired to work in has radically changed and he has not adapted to it. His dedication to get UNT off the ground and into the realm of big time athletics, both in affiliation and facilities, should be lauded. That does not supersede the other issues at hand.  As the head of an organization, he ultimately is the one who takes the blame and the one who receives the credit. Past accolades only get you so far in life and unfortunately he has used up his existing goodwill.

Beyond just his inability to succeed in the hiring process, there are many other major flaws that seem to get a pass. I have been concerned with to the poor handling of the MGC, the sad out reach to the young alumni and overall lack of interaction from the AD as a whole. I am in academia and have interacted with multiple Athletic Departments from around the country. UNT has by far the least responsive and least active group I have dealt with. I receive more emails and direct mailers from universities I interviewed at for faculty positions than those from the UNT AD each year. As an example, I know more than 2 dozen recent business doctoral graduates, and none where contacted by the AD for future donations. You do realize that that is dozens of new grads making over 100k a year with some portion of disposable income with no interaction from the AD. The lack of an active funding drive is in many ways sad and is a poor reflection of both the organization of the AD and the effort of RV's assembled staff. There are many things that can be tied to luck or wrong place/wrong time, but poor effort is inexcusable.

Between my wife and I we have 6 degrees from this university. I am a former college athlete and am considered to be one of the "experts" in my field. I pride myself in the ability to make complex rational business decisions and I look at this entire debacle through the lens of what I consider best for my al ma matter. We have suspended whatever donations we will give to UNT athletics and will no longer support the Athletic Department as it is currently constructed. I was a non-revenue sport athlete, and I know how much withdrawing funding hurts those areas specifically, but this is the only voice I have to use that will get heard.

We only really control one variable in our lives, and that is the variable "t" for time. By letting this take its course or work through the process we waste much of that precious commodity. Unfortunately I am at the point that not only do I agree that RV needs to be ousted, but his previous poor management of personnel screams that something like the banner MUST be done to attempt to force a change at Athletic Director before this hire is concluded and not after. If we are to be considered the minority or the lunatic fringe, then so be it.