In hindsight, Mac's "Mean Green Football"

Harry · October 13, 2015

Hindsight is 20/20, but a recent discussion with a Mean Green fan reminded me of the flaw in Mac's definition of "Mean Green Football".

"Mean Green Football" to Mac was relying on the other team to make more mistakes whether it be turnovers etc. His conservative offense played into this. His bend not break defense did as well.

Frankly, the turnover battle is something every team in the country is aware of and prepares for.

I look at the best teams, heck even that Portland State team that thrashed us, and I see AGGRESSIVE offense and ATTACKING defense. If you execute these properly, and get the right personnel you will win more than you lose.

While turnovers are a key stat, I do not think you can build your entire program around that since it is something everyone pays a lot of attention to.

meangreendork · October 13, 2015

You're right. The objective was to use the defense to create and take opportunities for good starting field position and for outright scores. He also went with special teams with the aim to do the same. Create turnovers and determine field position. The idea was to use both to determine the pace of the game. By luck, he had Dodge recruits that could do the work of creating their own scoring opportunities in addition to making good on some of what the defense and special teams could give them.

His system requires a consistent, solid offense. Unfortunately, he didn't build one.

ColoradoEagle · October 13, 2015

I can see some reasoning behind that game plan when used in the right situation. Dickey was putting way over-matched teams up against some huge opponents in OOC, and went with this philosophy to keep the scores respectable. The difference was that as soon as we hit conference play DD would open the playbook up a bit more vs. I never felt like anything opened up with Mac. It was a very wimpy way to play football.

greenminer · October 13, 2015

Not sure why we're dwelling on Mac. A thread like this seems to only cause the board's rage to linger.

oldguystudent · October 13, 2015

Not sure why we're dwelling on Mac. A thread like this seems to only cause the board's rage to linger.

You don't know Harry so well, do you?

KingDL1 · October 13, 2015

I can see some reasoning behind that game plan when used in the right situation. Dickey was putting way over-matched teams up against some huge opponents in OOC, and went with this philosophy to keep the scores respectable. The difference was that as soon as we hit conference play DD would open the playbook up a bit more vs. I never felt like anything opened up with Mac. It was a very wimpy way to play football.

Wait what? Dickey would then use the draw to the left and the right? Open it up?

Withers940 · October 13, 2015

Hindsight is 20/20, but a recent discussion with a Mean Green fan reminded me of the flaw in Mac's definition of "Mean Green Football".
"Mean Green Football" to Mac was relying on the other team to make more mistakes whether it be turnovers etc. His conservative offense played into this. His bend not break defense did as well.
Frankly, the turnover battle is something every team in the country is aware of and prepares for.
I look at the best teams, heck even that Portland State team that thrashed us, and I see AGGRESSIVE offense and ATTACKING defense. If you execute these properly, and get the right personnel you will win more than you lose.
While turnovers are a key stat, I do not think you can build your entire program around that since it is something everyone pays a lot of attention to.

Archaic philosophy that doomed him.

I like aggressive offenses because they tend to put up more points. If an when you get up on the other team, that allows the defense to go on attack mode. When your up, that allows you to take more chance (Blitz) and when you pressure the QB, the QB Tends to make mistakes (INT) or get sacked.

ColoradoEagle · October 13, 2015

Don't get me wrong, Dickey didn't get in conference and run the spread. It's more of he was afraid to do anything that could possibly cause a turnover in OOC vs. he would take a few (small) chances in conference play. Dickey was afraid to take chances 80-90% of the time, vs. Mac was afraid 100% of the time.

Edited October 13, 2015 by ColoradoEagle

Harry · October 13, 2015

Not sure why we're dwelling on Mac. A thread like this seems to only cause the board's rage to linger.

I think it important to consider these things when you are looking for the right coach. It's not meant to be a dig at Mac as much as that I don't think his philosophy works anymore. Even Brett Bielema at Arkasnas is now struggling with this type of system.

MeanMag · October 14, 2015

It doesn't bother me if we were run oriented, which we weren't. It doesn't bother me that we were a bend don't break defense, (I couldn't tell - we were normally bad in the secondary and broke all of the time).

It bothers me that we are not anything. No identity. I almost feel like we should be running a super tricked up offense (triple option). Run the wish bone. Get rid of the QB in the offense. Wildcat every down. Trick plays on every series. Something that requires a certain type of player that no one else is going for. Go for it on every 4th down. Don't kick extra points anymore. I don't care. Have an identity. Do something interesting to attract the certain types of players you want. Do the things that get the players excited to execute. Make a team out of walkons. Hell, some of our best players are walkons.

TCU and Patterson made a point to go and get guys and play them out of position and coached them exactly how to play that position. You were a WR in HS, but never got a chance to play QB, or we think you would make a good DB? Ok.

Just freaking do something special. Anything. Turn this place into the super tricked up Leach Texas Tech 2.0.

Edited October 14, 2015 by MeanMag

greenit · October 14, 2015

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Green P1 · October 14, 2015

In hindsight Mac didn't do a thing for Mean Green football. In hindsight Mac generated one good season on the shoulders of the senior class recruited by the previous regime. In hindsight the program is somehow in much worse shape than the "smallest and slowest" program he inherited. In hindsight Mac took a dumpster fire, threw a poorly constructed fire blanket on top of it, then watched the blanket disintegrate, eventually melting the dumpster to the ground.

Ben Gooding · October 14, 2015

I'm 100% on board for going for it on every 4th down past our own 45. Serioisly, I am so tired of watching teams punt the ball on 4th and half a foot. I see it over and over where a team losing by a TD will punt the ball from their own 45 on 4th and 1 with 3 minutes to go in the game just to watch the opposing offense bleed out the game. Grow a pair, take the risk and own it every single time. If you can't muster 6 inches you don't deserve to win. I'm also on board for 2-pt conversions after every score, trick plays, triple option, wildcat and everything in between. Make our identity, FUN and aggressive.

FirefightnRick · October 14, 2015

It doesn't bother if we were run oriented, which we weren't. It doesn't bother me that we were a bend don't break defense, (I couldn't tell - we were normally bad in the secondary and broke all of the time).
It bothers me that we are not anything. No identity. I almost feel like we should be running a super tricked up offense (triple option). Run the wish bone. Get rid of the QB in the offense. Wildcat every down. Trick plays on every series. Something that requires a certain type of player that no one else is going for. Go for it on every 4th down. Don't kick extra points anymore. I don't care. Have an identity. Do something interesting to attract the certain types of players you want. Do the things that get the players excited to execute. Make a team out of walkons. Hell, some of our best players are walkons.
TCU and Patterson made a point to go and get guys and play them out of position and coached them exactly how to play that position. You were a WR in HS, but never got a chance to play QB, or we think you would make a good DB? Ok.
Just freaking do something special. Anything. Turn this place into the super tricked up Leach Texas Tech 2.0.

This is basically how PSU got up on us early. Halfback pass...Wildcat for first downs...and our defense just stood and watched as if they couldn't believe their eyes?

Rick

GreenTexan13 · October 14, 2015

I'm 100% on board for going for it on every 4th down past our own 45. Serioisly, I am so tired of watching teams punt the ball on 4th and half a foot. I see it over and over where a team losing by a TD will punt the ball from their own 45 on 4th and 1 with 3 minutes to go in the game just to watch the opposing offense bleed out the game. Grow a pair, take the risk and own it every single time. If you can't muster 6 inches you don't deserve to win. I'm also on board for 2-pt conversions after every score, trick plays, triple option, wildcat and everything in between. Make our identity, FUN and aggressive.

One thing Mac did, that frustrated me was wimp out on 4th and goal plays. We would be down 14 points and Mac would just take the 3 pointer. (He did it during the SMU game.)

I totally agree with you, and this day and age, a football team will gain a lot of respect rolling the dice and will make themselves successful doing what you just said.

Edited October 14, 2015 by GreenTexan13

eulessismore · October 14, 2015

When I would hear Mac say "Mean Green Football" on any radio program, I began to think it was just his way of saying his brand of football. If you look at the overall picture of his career, it's one that, ironically, succeeded when he happened to have a quarterback who could improvise. DT didn't improvise that much, but he could make the play action pass happen, which seems like something that can make an otherwise ultraconservative offense work.

Really, all the frustration so many of us felt watching his brand of football seems like it was well described in the Iowa State "CycloneFanatics" football forum. It almost seemed like whoever made the hire was just wanting to go as far from a pass first offensive style of football as possible. I think opportunistic defense and special teams units creating turnovers can be another big part, but I think the first series of the SMU game this year exposed a real problem, when you get the ball in such great position, only to get 3 points after 3 straight running plays up the middle. It kinda made me think there was a strange method to his "it's ok to score on defense" mantra (i.e., we may not score much when we get the ball).

I'd been off the Dan wagon for a while, but decided I would never take anything seriously again after he described himself as "extremely disappointed" with the play of Damarcus Smith following the Southern Miss game. I guess he didn't realize how classless that made him sound to some, when he himself had become such an extreme disappointment to so many. I just don't think he really had an exit door for the dog house he put some of his players in, including quarterbacks likely better than those who played more. After a while, he just seemed like a grumpy old dude carrying grudges and making excuses. Excuse me if this seems too subtle.

I'm looking for someone who can get the players and fans excited, and can have several guys ready to go at any position at any given time.

Edited October 14, 2015 by eulessismore

James329 · October 14, 2015

His downfall was that it worked for one season. A 9 win, bowl-winning season. A season we all enjoyed and continue to overrate. But so many things had to go right that year, a year where we didn't win a conference that was down compared to now. The offense that year was just good enough, but we had to score on special teams and defense to win. Those 2 phases were great, but that's hard to duplicate, especially when you don't recruit. Mac was sold that it was his system that created that success and he could plug in guys and replicate it. Stubborn to a fault.

MeanMag · October 14, 2015

His downfall was that it worked for one season. A 9 win, bowl-winning season. A season we all enjoyed and continue to overrate. But so many things had to go right that year, a year where we didn't win a conference that was down compared to now. The offense that year was just good enough, but we had to score on special teams and defense to win. Those 2 phases were great, but that's hard to duplicate, especially when you don't recruit. Mac was sold that it was his system that created that success and he could plug in guys and replicate it. Stubborn to a fault.

If you look at history, it was one of the most prolific offenses in school history. In fact, the interim coach right now has been the O.C. for quite a few of those offenses.

Ben Gooding · October 14, 2015

One thing Mac did, that frustrated me was wimp out on 4th and goal plays. We would be down 14 points and Mac would just take the 3 pointer. (He did it during the SMU game.)
I totally agree with you, and this day and age, a football team will gain a lot of respect rolling the dice and will make themselves successful doing what you just said.

I was always hesitahesitant about Mac, always. For me, the straw that broke his back was 2014 So Miss. We were obviously regressing and the recruiting was sub par his entire time here, but last year at home vs a very beatable So Mis team ww drove down to their 39 yard line in the first half and on 4th and 1 we punted (into the back of the endzone no less). The first quarter ended shortly thereafter and So Miss literally drove to the same 39 yard line and on 4th and 1 ran a fake punt for a 15 or 17 yard gain and that changed the dynamics of the game, our season and possibly Mccarney's career. Win that very winnable game vs So Miss and we may have played with more will to win in the season finale for bowl eligibility. Mac coached us out of games and receuited us back into the Sun Belt. The writing has been on the wall for a long time and we're about to sit back and watch the same moron hire another coach.

MeanGreenHoops · October 14, 2015

It doesn't bother me if we were run oriented, which we weren't. It doesn't bother me that we were a bend don't break defense, (I couldn't tell - we were normally bad in the secondary and broke all of the time).
It bothers me that we are not anything. No identity. I almost feel like we should be running a super tricked up offense (triple option). Run the wish bone. Get rid of the QB in the offense. Wildcat every down. Trick plays on every series. Something that requires a certain type of player that no one else is going for. Go for it on every 4th down. Don't kick extra points anymore. I don't care. Have an identity. Do something interesting to attract the certain types of players you want. Do the things that get the players excited to execute. Make a team out of walkons. Hell, some of our best players are walkons.
TCU and Patterson made a point to go and get guys and play them out of position and coached them exactly how to play that position. You were a WR in HS, but never got a chance to play QB, or we think you would make a good DB? Ok.
Just freaking do something special. Anything. Turn this place into the super tricked up Leach Texas Tech 2.0.

Here's your guy then. High School Coach Who Never Punts

KingDL1 · October 14, 2015

Mac did some good also, he kept the academic side up. When Dickey was here how many guys did we lose to grades? Each summer under Dickey I was just waiting for the announcements of who was academically ineligible. I hope the part of good academics continues.

untbowler · October 14, 2015

His downfall was that it worked for one season. A 9 win, bowl-winning season. A season we all enjoyed and continue to overrate. But so many things had to go right that year, a year where we didn't win a conference that was down compared to now. The offense that year was just good enough, but we had to score on special teams and defense to win. Those 2 phases were great, but that's hard to duplicate, especially when you don't recruit. Mac was sold that it was his system that created that success and he could plug in guys and replicate it. Stubborn to a fault.

For how good 2013 was, many saw issues even then with playcalling and not getting young players into games for playing experience.

The Tulane game was horrible, the UTSA game for a Conference Title no less was such a coaching FUBAR, yes we got to a bowl game, but the issues were there if fans took off the green glasses. DMac gets some credit but the constant whining got old, considering he had more than any of his predecessors but he was to stubborn to change.

drex · October 14, 2015

If I had a head coach running around telling everyone who would listen that it was really hard to recruit to North Texas I'd fire him on the spot. The legacy of piss poor football that Mac inherited will be the same legacy he leaves his successor. One thing that I have noticed, is that the fan base here seems a lot more resilient than previous years. We seem to roll with the punches and show up better than in previous years.

rcade · October 14, 2015

Not sure why we're dwelling on Mac. A thread like this seems to only cause the board's rage to linger.

It's weird you think we should stop talking about Mac only days after he was fired. Learning from the last coach's mistakes is part of the process of not making them again with the next guy.

"Mean Green Football" to Mac was relying on the other team to make more mistakes whether it be turnovers etc. His conservative offense played into this. His bend not break defense did as well.

Yep. It felt to me like the game changed but Mac didn't. That's one of the reasons to go younger in a coaching hire. They're more likely to be plugged in to current trends.

Another thing about doing things old school is that current athletes might not want to play that way. If a recruit visits and sees a too-cautious brand of football they might end up going to a school whose style of play excites them.

CMJ · October 14, 2015

Mac's style can work...it's not that outdated. Kansas State basically plays the way Mac wanted to (granted with better athletes that can open up the field...but what they actually run is generally conservative). It definitely requires dominance in the offensive and defensive lines though.