Who would you have hired? Are you any better than RV?

rcade · October 13, 2015

II do know that when you budget for a head coach is $500,000 to $750,000, then your pool of candidates is limited.

UNT's salary for McCarney ranked 85 out of 121 FBS schools whose pay was determined by USA Today:

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/

That put us fourth among CUSA schools, 12% off the best-paid coach, Rick Stockstill at MTSU.

We'd all like to see UNT pay more, obviously, but with our current salary and situation I think there are going to be some strong applicants with FBS experience who want the job.

Graddean · October 13, 2015

Didn't Leach, at a P5 school, lose to Portland State.

SilverEagle · October 13, 2015

Any AD who does NOT hire a consulting firm on a major sport head coach position is by definition incompetent.
1. the consultants go through the process multiple times a year, not a couple of times a decade. As a CEO I know put it, "you can't keep the expertise in house for jobs that only happen occasionally - either they are too expensive or they aren't current.

This is football, not microsoft.

2. they can keep the candidates anonymous which is a HUGE factor. You never want the idea you were considered for a job that you didn't accept to get out - never, ever, EVER. And you don't want a school to find out you showed interest in a job find out about your interest until you are ready to interview as too many things can go wrong. This is a senior position, not a job three promotions about summer intern that you can get to by just hanging around till others retire.

I worked for a state agency for 33 years and was involved in, and conducted multiple interviews for job seekers and 100's of volunteers. As a state agency (which UNT is) you are required to adhere to the strictest rules of confidentiality. Which start with, and end with, keeping the name of the applicant......confidential. You SHOULDN'T need a consulting firm to do that for you. Because if you can't keep their names secret, you are being (in the vernacular of my state agency) non-compliant with state and agency standards.

3. the better consultants have contacts to find the best, most qualified candidates for each particular job situation. We don't know what they were told to look for, only the bare minimum information the state must release about the job opening. Now, getting the right information about the job to the consultants, THAT is on RV and it is very possible he didn't do this well.
This isn't the 1970s. Organizations large and small use consultants to guide them on making decisions. Multiple controled, peer reviewed studies have shown this results in better decisions.

And this is North Texas. What the hell does any consulting firm actually and accurately know about us? Once again, if you've spent 10 years here, you SHOULD know your programs needs. And if you can read and assess applications, you should be able to sort out the best 5-10 candidates for the job. That's what you get paid 200K+ to do.

Edited October 13, 2015 by SilverEagle

KingDL1 · October 13, 2015

That chart is all kinds of wrong, they have our max bonus as an extra $945,000 but it was not that much it was all in a total of $850,000, and his base was 600k plus 125k what I had read several times. So maybe a $725,000 base but they have it an extra $945,000 which would total 1.67 million? I know that was never a thing. Plus they are missing private school's data at the bottom that more than us which would make us slip 10-20 spots or so

UNT's salary for McCarney ranked 85 out of 121 FBS schools whose pay was determined by USA Today:
http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/
That put us fourth among CUSA schools, 12% off the best-paid coach, Rick Stockstill at MTSU.
We'd all like to see UNT pay more, obviously, but with our current salary and situation I think there are going to be some strong applicants with FBS experience who want the job.

Edited October 13, 2015 by KingDL1

rcade · October 13, 2015

That chart is all kinds of wrong, they have our max bonus as an extra $945,000 but it was not that much it was all in a total of $850,000, and his base was 600k plus 125k what I had read several times. So maybe a $725,000 base but they have it an extra $945,000 which would total 1.67 million? I know that was never a thing. Plus they are missing private school's data at the bottom that more than us which would make us slip 10-20 spots or so

USA Today got up to $725,000 for McCarney because there was a $70,000 bonus if he coached the final game of a season.

KingDL1 · October 13, 2015

USA Today got up to $725,000 for McCarney because there was a $70,000 bonus if he coached the final game of a season.

they were at 720,000 just saying if you look there are lots of holes in their data and appears inaccurate. Because the most Mac could make in total pay was $850,000 all in not 1.67 million

Edited October 13, 2015 by KingDL1

VideoEagle · October 13, 2015

This is football, not microsoft.

Non-profit agencies that are just paying $150K for an executive director are now being required by the boards and donors to bring in executive search firms to help with job searches. That's the way things are done now and have been for the last decade. We're not hiring a case worker, we're hiring someone at the level of a state assistant department director. This isn't an office manager or area director.

As for state agencies keeping applicants confidential - first, it's also to keep the school from knowing the names of who's interested too early and secondly, I read daily of botched confidentiality at Texas state agencies. And I know a number of state agencies - HHS for one example, TexDot for another - that actually use consultants for multiple projects.

And we aren't little North Texas anymore. The consulting firms work with FBS schools on a regular basis and have a very good basic idea of what's needed and it's up the the school to provide any additional information. UT uses search firms, A&M uses search firms, UH uses search firms, Texas Tech uses search firms and even Sam Houston State uses executive search firms. A quick Google search showed all of them do. Using search firms is what universities DO in 2015.

SilverEagle · October 13, 2015

Non-profit agencies that are just paying $150K for an executive director are now being required by the boards and donors to bring in executive search firms to help with job searches. That's the way things are done now and have been for the last decade. We're not hiring a case worker, we're hiring someone at the level of a state assistant department director. This isn't an office manager or area director.
As for state agencies keeping applicants confidential - first, it's also to keep the school from knowing the names of who's interested too early and secondly, I read daily of botched confidentiality at Texas state agencies. And I know a number of state agencies - HHS for one example, TexDot for another - that actually use consultants for multiple projects.
And we aren't little North Texas anymore. The consulting firms work with FBS schools on a regular basis and have a very good basic idea of what's needed and it's up the the school to provide any additional information. UT uses search firms, A&M uses search firms, UH uses search firms, Texas Tech uses search firms and even Sam Houston State uses executive search firms. A quick Google search showed all of them do. Using search firms is what universities DO in 2015.

And yet the last time we used a consulting firm, they recommended a coach who operates (philosophy wise) right out of the 60's-70's. He got his start in coaching under the very progressive Hayden Fry, but he is still old-school-B-10-Woody Hayes in his soul.

So much for the worth of consulting firms.

Edited October 13, 2015 by SilverEagle

VideoEagle · October 13, 2015

And yet the last time we used a consulting firm, they recommended a coach who operates (philosophy wise) right out of the 60's-70's. He got his start in coaching under the very progressive Hayden, but he is still old-school-B-10-Woody Hayes in his soul.
So much for the worth of consulting firms.

Yes, he missed on Mac. But he had hits at UT, Ohio State and elsewhere. Yes, Mac Brown was eventually fired but every UT fan I know was happy with the National Championship! If you hire at an executive level, you use a consulting firm! You might not personally like consultants, but there are multiple studies of real world results that show professional consultants provide the best solution the vast majority of the time.

untjim1995 · October 13, 2015

I don't want to be in the top quartile of paying a coach in CUSA--I want us to be top quartile in paying a coach in all of the G5...and not have it hurt the salaries of what we can offer the other coordinators and coaches.

I thought the Dodge hire in 2007 was a great risk/reward hire, but I was completely onboard with it. It just failed miserably for every reason imaginable.

In 2010, I wanted Franchione, but I was fine with McCarney. But recruiting to an offense built for 1970 in Iowa while in Texas in 2010 obviously failed miserably in the end. He improved the strength and attitude of the Dodge recruits that got beaten down by losing, but he never could get his own recruits to pan out--mostly because the sum of the classes was bad to oh-dear-Lord-you-can't-get-worse-than-this.

SilverEagle · October 13, 2015

Yes, he missed on Mac. But he had hits at UT, Ohio State and elsewhere. Yes, Mac Brown was eventually fired but every UT fan I know was happy with the National Championship! If you hire at an executive level, you use a consulting firm! You might not personally like consultants, but there are multiple studies of real world results that show professional consultants provide the best solution the vast majority of the time.

He? Are you referring to RV or the consulting firm? Because if it's the consulting firm, that sounds like you have a personal relationship with someone there.

And he (whoever that is) not only missed it, he didn't even come close. The most successful coach/AD we've ever had was Hayden Fry.And not because of his record here per se, it's because he "got" North Texas and went about trying to change our culture. All "he" had to do was profile Hayden, and recommend the next young coach like him.

Edited October 13, 2015 by SilverEagle

HoustonEagle · October 14, 2015

I will beat the dead horse again.

Picking the right coach is basically an educated guess. Most programs have more failures than successes when it comes to head coaching hires. The main focus of the AD is to find money and increase attendance. Why? Because you need the resources to make these mistakes.

Perseverance. We must chase the best possible candidates. Fire them when they don’t work out and be able to keep then when they do. Success in fundraising creates success on the field.

VideoEagle · October 14, 2015

The "he" referred to RV. No, I don't no anyone at Neinas but I do know a couple of people at Accenture currently working on Texas HHS projects. In grad school to get an MBA I had to read a bunch of those studies consultants and I dealt with several consulting firms at a company I worked at. I was on a non-profit board 10 years ago and we told by several of our larger donors plus the Center for Non-profit Management even smaller charities needed to suck up the cost and hire search firms for their major hires. It is the way the world works today.

As far as profiling Hayden, RV did profile him with one major exception - age. One had a .42 record as head coach and the other .38. But were well above average in their success at historically underperforming schools in major conferences. Both had tried to change the culture of losing at their previous head coaching jobs with limited success. Hayden could recruit in the 70s and Mac couldn't in the 10s.

I will beat the dead horse again.
Picking the right coach is basically an educated guess. Most programs have more failures than successes when it comes to head coaching hires. The main focus of the AD is to find money and increase attendance. Why? Because you need the resources to make these mistakes.

Anyone who has never made a bad hire hasn't hired very many people.

Mike Jackson · October 14, 2015

Lot's of excuses here and a poor question to ask your average fan to know all the coaches available now let alone when Mac was hired. If UNT was going to go "Big Dawg Paycheck" then it was stupid to make the financial commitment that they made to Dan when the team at the time responded to Mike Canales. But at North Texas is a chicken and egg circle of BS excuses. We can't hire a big name coach to win in recruiting because we don't have the money, and we don't have money cause alumni don't support it. So the original mistake of the BOR and President was not to hire a "BiG DAWG" AD. A big dawg AD with football name recognition and FBS head coaching experience knows or has connections that know the best young coaching talent in America. A savvy AD grabs Harbaugh before he goes to University of San Diego so we aren't competing with Stanford for his services when he wants to make a step up. But let get out of the past and talk about right now. You want to fix UNT Football and by extension athletics. It is a long shot I know but bare with me. The powers that be need to reach out through back channels to see if Steve Spurier would be interested in being the AD and hiring one his sons as head coach. A name that generates excitement is an absolute must here else the coach has to be an absolute genius to win with inferior talent for at least 2 years straight. The main problem at UNT is alumni and student apathy. That is the ugly truth.

greenit · October 14, 2015

Two years ago there were posters on here lauding Mac and the Fry family tree who are now having amnesia.

He had it right where he needed it, didn't recruit the right QB to replace a departing one and the whole thing fell apart because he is stubborn and loyal to a fault.