I may get obliterated on this question...

cdizzle86 · October 12, 2015

People, no HS kid is going to commit to a school where the guys who recruited him might not be there when he is a RS Sophmore. If you only trust Chico enough to give him a 2 year contract you don't trust him enough to hire him.

My thoughts on only giving him a 2 year contract has nothing to do with believing. It has more to do with minimizing our risk as a university and giving a guy who has proven that he can take a broken team and turn it around quickly....2 times if he does it again. It's called coaching.

Why do we have to offer 4 years? Because every other school does?

Edited October 12, 2015 by cdizzle86

Tyler Maryak · October 12, 2015

If you want Canales to be the head coach then make sure it's because you think he's a better fit for the job then people out of house. If you're scope is limited outside of UNT football then you really shouldn't be campaigning for him. He has not done a good job recruiting, particularly with QB recruiting (possibly limited by Mccarney, but still a poor job).

And this is a good example of the political/administrative stuff i don't know much about. so Chico has not been successful in his recruiting responsibilities, eh? Dang...

My thoughts on only giving him a 2 year contract has nothing to do with believing. It has more to do with minimizing our risk as a university and giving a guy who has proven that he can take a broken team and turn it around quickly....2 times if he does it again. It's called coaching.

Exactly. Earn a real extension instead of ending up in a situation where we're buying out for $2M again. Again, assuming RV is still here.

meanrob · October 12, 2015

For those of you who are bashing our recruiting, please see the link below. I know Rivals isn't the end all on ranking recruits, but I think we should stop the "Our recruiting has sucked" excuse. Our coaches (I'm looking at Cosh & McCarney) have either not been able to develop the recruits we currently have or have made the wrong personnel decisions.
http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/teamrank/2015/CUSA/all

That list is deceiving. If you go by total points, we have more than others because we gave out more scholarships. If you go by average, we're 9th or 10th.

Cerebus · October 12, 2015

My thoughts on only giving him a 2 year contract has nothing to do with believing. It has more to do with minimizing our risk as a university and giving a guy who has proven that he can take a broken team and turn it around quickly....2 times if he does it again. It's called coaching.

I don't think I've ever heard accepting a two year contract. The reason is because they would be doomed to failure. HS kids get recruited (mainly) by position coaches, position coaches serve at the the discretion of the HC, a HC only being guaranteed only two years means the recruit is only guaranteed two years (actually one, because they will be in HS the first year) with that recruiter and that program.

Not going to work, they'll just go to another more stable situation. Bare min is 4 year contract. If you don't trust Chico with that, don't give it to him. No one we would possibly want would accept a 2 year contract. Maybe UNT90 would, but that's about it.

adman · October 12, 2015

Greer - Chico recruit at two different schools - How has that worked out?

Brock Burgland - Chico recruit. Bust

Dajon Williams - Chico recruit. Bust (and is currently a WR at Commerce.)

Multiple recruits from Snow College - a place where Chico once coached. Chico recruits - all busts - one didn't even make it to campus because he had ZERO eligibility left.

Chico is not the man.

golfingomez · October 12, 2015

I've never understood people holding the fact that he campaigned for the job in 2010 against him. If you want something... You try and get it.

Exactly... and if Chico wants a job... you better believe that Chico's gonna campaign for the job... because if Chico is designing the plays, Chico wants to be calling the plays...

Chico's just gonna be Chico, and you better believe that if Chico isn't a head coach at UNT next year, ain't gonna be no more Chico at UNT next year...

in all seriousness, i always thought the 3rd person references were just really funny after that K-State game.

Cerebus · October 12, 2015

in all seriousness, i always thought the 3rd person references were just really funny after that K-State game.

Has anyone ever seen Chico and ElGuapo in the same room at the same time?

THOR · October 12, 2015

Dodge' wife asked me if i was related to canales at the Monroe game after he took over...guess I look like him or something...thought that was funny...or maybe I was cheering tod loud during the game and it prompted her question...

Edited October 12, 2015 by THOR

Tyler Maryak · October 12, 2015

I don't think I've ever heard accepting a two year contract. The reason is because they would be doomed to failure. HS kids get recruited (mainly) by position coaches, position coaches serve at the the discretion of the HC, a HC only being guaranteed only two years means the recruit is only guaranteed two years (actually one, because they will be in HS the first year) with that recruiter and that program.
Not going to work, they'll just go to another more stable situation. Bare min is 4 year contract. If you don't trust Chico with that, don't give it to him. No one we would possibly want would accept a 2 year contract. Maybe UNT90 would, but that's about it.

Thank you for this insight.

Exactly... and if Chico wants a job... you better believe that Chico's gonna campaign for the job... because if Chico is designing the plays, Chico wants to be calling the plays...
Chico's just gonna be Chico, and you better believe that if Chico isn't a head coach at UNT next year, ain't gonna be no more Chico at UNT next year...

in all seriousness, i always thought the 3rd person references were just really funny after that K-State game.

lmao, this is awesome.

Eagle1855 · October 12, 2015

He has not done a good job recruiting, particularly with QB recruiting (possibly limited by Mccarney, but still a poor job).

This is my #1 concern with retaining him. I've heard a lot of things about how poorly this staff has done with respects to recruitment. It's my assumption that it is directly related to the head coach.

The next coach needs to be a home-run hire. Or at least a stand-up triple. We can't keep doing this every few years. If at the end of the day, Canales is the best option, so be it. I suspect that won't be the case.

NT1978 · October 12, 2015

I don't think I've ever heard accepting a two year contract. The reason is because they would be doomed to failure. HS kids get recruited (mainly) by position coaches, position coaches serve at the the discretion of the HC, a HC only being guaranteed only two years means the recruit is only guaranteed two years (actually one, because they will be in HS the first year) with that recruiter and that program.
Not going to work, they'll just go to another more stable situation. Bare min is 4 year contract. If you don't trust Chico with that, don't give it to him. No one we would possibly want would accept a 2 year contract. Maybe UNT90 would, but that's about it.

Does a four or five year contract actually guarantee the HS kid will have the same position coach (or even head coach) for those four or five years?

Got5onIt · October 12, 2015

I like Canales, but he's coaching for a job outside UNT at this point. He would have to go 6-1 to even get consideration, IMO. 6-1 with the remaining schedule would be absolutely amazing. There needs to be a total purge here, lots of good people are going to be out of s job, but it needs to happen...

greenminer · October 12, 2015

The QB recruitment concerns are legit but, again, all under the umbrella of Doomsday Dan's control. I think the next 7 games will be very telling.

Cerebus · October 12, 2015

Does a four or five year contract actually guarantee the HS kid will have the same position coach (or even head coach) for those four or five years?

No, most position coaches are year to year. However if the do a decent job the recruit can more or less rely on them being there. Also, the HC sets the offense and defense with his hires, so for example a playing getting recruited will more than likely spend most of his time talking to a positiuonal coach, but he is going to care that what offense or defense the HC likes to run.

foutsrouts · October 12, 2015

If we go in that direction, minimum of 3 years with a package comparable to Mac's. Anything less would be a personal insult to the guy, and we need a coach with strong positive feelings toward our university. He's not a 30 year old rookie in this game.

UNTFan23 · October 12, 2015

If we go in that direction, minimum of 3 years with a package comparable to Mac's. Anything less would be a personal insult to the guy, and we need a coach with strong positive feelings toward our university. He's not a 30 year old rookie in this game.

If you want to get a serious coach to come here, we need to offer a minimum 4 year contract.

Cerebus · October 12, 2015

If you want to get a serious coach to come here, we need to offer a minimum 4 year contract.

Any of our top candidates will want 5 years. We might be able to get someone here for 4, but it won't be a guy we really, really want.

meangreendork · October 12, 2015

Some say that recruiting kids to our antiquated program was a big problem. We cannot recruit kids while using a system from 1970. That may have been one of the big problems. Mac was very stubborn and it ultimately cost him his job.

If I was a high school QB who has a prolific HS career and was looking at offers from different schools...I probably wouldn't choose UNT if I was likely going to throw short routes, be kept in the box, and just be the middleman between the center and RB. Coaches tend to get QBs that match their system. Mac's system was a lot like Dickeys in that it was centered around the RB, so consequently, finding a QB interested in that is going to be hard.

Mac managed to find decent guys at other skill positions but they're limited by the skill of the QB. We could put NFL-prime Randy Moss and Jerry Rice on the field with McNulty and it wouldn't matter because throws would be short, long, or stared down and picked.

Edited October 12, 2015 by meangreendork

eoj221 · October 12, 2015

Greer - Chico recruit at two different schools - How has that worked out?
Brock Burgland - Chico recruit. Bust
Dajon Williams - Chico recruit. Bust (and is currently a WR at Commerce.)
Multiple recruits from Snow College - a place where Chico once coached. Chico recruits - all busts - one didn't even make it to campus because he had ZERO eligibility left.
Chico is not the man.

Burgland was not a Chico recruit. He was pushed, and pushed hard by Kent Riddle. Riddle recruited him while at Colorado and said he would come in and start right away. Burgland was an arrogant jerk from the moment he came on his recruiting visit. Chico didn't want him......at all, he knew DT was the guy, which I know disgusts many on here because you think DT was never the guy. Funny how he led us to a bowl win and was the MVP of that game. Mac wanted mini Mac to start from game one, his bias was very clear.

Chico said Greer was not good enough when he came out of high school even though others pushed hard for him, so he definitely didn't recruit him twice, don't know for sure how he felt about Greer coming out of JC. But do you think Mac wanted actual competition coming in for Andy Mac?

Dajon refused to work hard or take the time to learn the offense, has nothing to do with his ability.

Just because a guy plays QB does not mean that he was recruited by the QB coach.

And just because the guy is the QB coach does not mean he decides who plays. Head coaches tend to want complete control, and Mac was definitely one of those guys.

Edited October 12, 2015 by eoj221
Put actually instead of actual.

UNTFan23 · October 12, 2015

If I was a high school QB who has a prolific HS career and was looking at offers from different schools...I probably wouldn't choose UNT if I was likely going to throw short routes, be kept in the box, and just be the middleman between the center and RB. Coaches tend to get QBs that match their system. Mac's system was a lot like Dickeys in that it was centered around the RB, so consequently, finding a QB interested in that is going to be hard.
Mac managed to find decent guys at other skill positions but they're limited by the skill of the QB. We could put NFL-prime Randy Moss and Jerry Rice on the field with McNulty and and it wouldn't matter because throws would be short, long, or stared down and picked.

That also goes towards QB development. If all you are is expecting the QB to make minimal decisions as outlined above, then there's not much you need to develop talent wise.

meanrob · October 12, 2015

Burgland was not a Chico recruit. He was pushed, and pushed hard by Kent Riddle. Riddle recruited him while at Colorado and said he would come in and start right away. Burgland was an arrogant jerk from the moment he came on his recruiting visit. Chico didn't want him......at all, he knew DT was the guy, which I know disgusts many on here because you think DT was never the guy. Funny how he led us to a bowl win and was the MVP of that game. Mac wanted mini Mac to start from game one, his bias was very clear.
Chico said Greer was not good enough when he came out of high school even though others pushed hard for him, so he definitely didn't recruit him twice, don't know for sure how he felt about Greer coming out of JC. But do you think Mac wanted actually competition coming in for Andy Mac?
Dajon refused to work hard or take the time to learn the offense, has nothing to do with his ability.
Just because a guy plays QB does not mean that he was recruited by the QB coach.
And just because the guy is the QB coach does not mean he decides who plays. Head coaches tend to want complete control, and Mac was definitely one of those guys.

Just like 2010.....here come the agendas!

MeanGreenTexan · October 12, 2015

Burgland was not a Chico recruit. He was pushed, and pushed hard by Kent Riddle. Riddle recruited him while at Colorado and said he would come in and start right away. Burgland was an arrogant jerk from the moment he came on his recruiting visit. Chico didn't want him......at all, he knew DT was the guy, which I know disgusts many on here because you think DT was never the guy. Funny how he led us to a bowl win and was the MVP of that game. Mac wanted mini Mac to start from game one, his bias was very clear.
Chico said Greer was not good enough when he came out of high school even though others pushed hard for him, so he definitely didn't recruit him twice, don't know for sure how he felt about Greer coming out of JC. But do you think Mac wanted actual competition coming in for Andy Mac?
Dajon refused to work hard or take the time to learn the offense, has nothing to do with his ability.
Just because a guy plays QB does not mean that he was recruited by the QB coach.
And just because the guy is the QB coach does not mean he decides who plays. Head coaches tend to want complete control, and Mac was definitely one of those guys.

I had heard this before as well. During the time Berglund was being recruited, you may recall another guy also being recruited to come here: Scotty Young.
Young turned out to be a dud as well at the FBS level, but Chico had more interest in him than Berglund from what I understand.

eoj221 · October 12, 2015

Just like 2010.....here come the agendas!

It's not an agenda, I was a coaching intern for Mac's first two years, I just happen to have facts, I know you guys hate that.

rcade · October 12, 2015

If Canales does what he did in 2010 and wins 3 or 4 games for the rest of this season somehow, why shouldn't we offer him the HC job?

Because we need a break from the past, and Canales has been a part of the last two failed coaching regimes.

The way we do things does not work.

meanrob · October 12, 2015

It's not an agenda, I was a coaching intern for Mac's first two years, I just happen to have facts, I know you guys hate that.

There's only two ways to look at this-

1) Canales was the OC for the past five years and during that time our offense has been rated in the bottom third offensively four of those five years.

2) He wasn't the OC and he's been standing around holding a clipboard for the last five years.

Either way nothing he has done the past five years qualifies him to be a head coach.

Those are the facts.