DRC Monday column: UNT can learn from good, bad of McCarney era

Brett Vito · October 12, 2015

DRC: McCarney asked "Why not North Texas?" It's time to look at the reasons and address them going forward

http://www.dentonrc.com/sports/sports-headlines/20151011-brett-vito-unt-must-bury-its-perception-as-it-tries-to-go-forward.ece

NTAlum09 · October 12, 2015

“This isn’t the easiest place in the world to recruit to,” McCarney said. “This isn’t the easiest place in the world when you have a track record and a lot of years of losing. Just because you put up some cement and some bigger stands, that doesn’t make it easy.”

That wasn’t a popular opinion among UNT fans back then and still isn’t now, but history shows McCarney is right.

We brought in a guy from out of state who talked a good game but couldn't recruit worth a darn. This quote stills bothers me today and I can't believe he had the balls to say that. The problem with Coach Mac is he doesn't like change and his conservative approach at coaching led him to getting fired.

meanrob · October 12, 2015

"UNT needs someone who can continue the work McCarney did to change the perception of the program as the last resort in Texas college football."

Mac did jack squat to change the perception. If anything he contributed mightily to it, in both his actions and words.

MeanGreenHoops · October 12, 2015

Weird article. Early on in the article you say -

"The man worked incredibly hard to change that perception, talking to students and about anyone else who would take the time to listen to his dream of turning the program into a consistent winner.

McCarney just never quite reached his goal."

Then later you say -

"UNT will be forever in McCarney’s debt for what he did to improve the academic performance of the team and for the work he did to change the culture and perception of the school’s program."

So which was it, he didn't change the perception but then he did?

VideoEagle · October 12, 2015

Nice article. and Brett and RV are both correct that many of the previous problems - facilities, salaries, conference - ARE now fixed. Fixing the culture is something that can't be fixed in a couple of years - that takes multiple decades - but even that has visibly improved in the past few years.

I think Texas ties help, but Gary Patterson had few Texas connections before coming to TCU. Kevin Sumlin had even fewer before getting the HC job at Houston. Having assistants with Texas connection can make up for none by a head coach IF the HC is willing to start talking to high school coaches regularly once he gets to Texas. Just trying to make contact regularly goes a long way. I read that RC Slocum had a system where he called every high school head coach in the state every third year. If they had a player, then it was certainly more. But he called the guys without anyone recruitable just to "check in and say hi." And the coaches remembered that when they DID have a recruitable player.

All that said, not every high school coach wants a lot of contact. I think that's the beauty of a multi year rotation.

By the way, the quote that bothers everyone was said only once and Mac backed away from it later that week and multiple times afterward. And if you think of the perception of high school players now just now but since 2005, we really are a losing school. You can bet every recruiter at every OTHER school tells every recruit that repeatedly.

NM Green · October 12, 2015

There are so many people proud of this University that should be working inside the Athletic Department and in anything associated with our fine institution. We have freedom of speech which I will always work to preserve, but our next coach will NOT have this attitude that UNT is somehow a lesser University to make it happen. We are blessed and supported and ripe for greatness.

A believer from day one until the day he is done is who we will hire in the coming months.

Green times ahead brothers and sisters.

GMG

meanrob · October 12, 2015

Weird article. Early on in the article you say -
"The man worked incredibly hard to change that perception, talking to students and about anyone else who would take the time to listen to his dream of turning the program into a consistent winner.
McCarney just never quite reached his goal."

Then later you say -
"UNT will be forever in McCarney’s debt for what he did to improve the academic performance of the team and for the work he did to change the culture and perception of the school’s program."
So which was it, he didn't change the perception but then he did?

Worst loss ever, overall losing record, complaining how hard it is here, complaining the fans didn't show up, stubborn to the point of being a detriment to the program, and lackadaisical recruiting. And I'm a guy who was FULLY on board with his hire. I said he should be given seven years to build the program. It had to be a disaster for me to change my mind and it was worse than a disaster.

He did nothing to change the culture. He improved academics (golf clap).

Worse than Dodge. Let that sink in.

BillySee58 · October 12, 2015

It's really simple. Be good to Vito, cooperate with him, give him good material and interviews, and he'll be good to you. DT and Mac will always have good words written about them by BV for that.

What Todd Dodge was to on-the-field play, Mccarney was to recruiting. Particularly, winning recruiting battles, save for 2014. And yeah, our perception across the state is no better than it was when Dodge left. It isn't.

NTAlum09 · October 12, 2015

Worst loss ever, overall losing record, complaining how hard it is here, complaining the fans didn't show up, stubborn to the point of being a detriment to the program, and lackadaisical recruiting. And I'm a guy who was FULLY on board with his hire. I said he should be given seven years to build the program. It had to be a disaster for me to change my mind and it was worse than a disaster.
He did nothing to change the culture. He improved academics (golf clap).
Worse than Dodge. Let that sink in.

I agree.

Dan was a spoiled brat who had everything handed to him.

New Stadium

New Facilities

Bigger Budget

meanrob · October 12, 2015

I agree.
Dan was a spoiled brat who had everything handed to him.
New Stadium
New Facilities
Bigger Budget

Compare what they had to work with and compare how they left the program.....absolutely.

NM Green · October 12, 2015

I know only people who have followed this program from early on will understand this, but I remember back in 1AA we built a solid Portland State type program that went in and competed and pulled the occasional upset. That year we beat Rice and Texas Tech and narrowly beat Texas (sigh) was proof that YOU CAN DO IT at North Texas. That regime hooked me early as a fan and they had zilch to build with. I don't go into P5's today like back then thinking UNT was going to put the scare into them or come out with a W. No whiners allowed and our new AD WILL sell out our beautiful gem of a stadium, hold town halls, get the community involved and be transparent with season ticket sales and donations. I mean these are basic things guys and I don't know how you expect an AD to build a Force of Green in a secretive vacuum.

It's ax time Smastrek. Make this quick and get all kinds of fantastic candidates poising themselves for this incredible opportunity:

New AD

New Coach

Solid Conference Affiliation

Mega Major Sports Market

37,000 plus student base

Texas

GMG

FirefightnRick · October 12, 2015

Still stroking Mac's backside huh Brett,...while taking every chance possible to poke a finger in Dodge's eye.

Tell me...did RV prevent Mac from hiring the coaches he wanted like he did Dodge?

And for that Dodge has never trashed us since that I know of when he certainly could have...in fact he has a WR that is committed to us now. http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/player-Chase-Cokley-185497

How about some demand for accountability and a return on investments made from here on out from RV on up? Will we see a string of stories on that for once from the DRC? There's never been a better time than now.

Rick

meanrob · October 12, 2015

Still stroking Mac's backside huh Brett,...while taking every chance possible to poke a finger in Dodge's eye.
Tell me...did RV prevent Mac from hiring the coaches he wanted like he did Dodge?
And for that Dodge has never trashed us since that I know of when he certainly could have...in fact he has a WR that is committed to us now. http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/player-Chase-Cokley-185497

How about some demand for accountability and a return on investments made from here on out from RV on up? Will we see a string of stories on that for once from the DRC? There's never been a better time than now.

Rick

Will never happen. RV and Mac aren't the only ones stealing money.

SilverEagle · October 12, 2015

“This isn’t the easiest place in the world to recruit to,” McCarney said. “This isn’t the easiest place in the world when you have a track record and a lot of years of losing. Just because you put up some cement and some bigger stands, that doesn’t make it easy.”
That wasn’t a popular opinion among UNT fans back then and still isn’t now, but history shows McCarney is right.
We brought in a guy from out of state who talked a good game but couldn't recruit worth a darn. This quote stills bothers me today and I can't believe he had the balls to say that. The problem with Coach Mac is he doesn't like change and his conservative approach at coaching led him to getting fired.

I have never understood why fans of this program get mad at that statement. IT'S TRUE PEOPLE!!

The problem I have is when someone says that and then doesn't talk about his plan to CHANGE THE SITUATION.

Mac worked hard at a lot of things, but to change the "perception" of our athletic program, you not only have to work hard.......you need to work smart. I'll take someone who works smart every time over someone who keeps pounding his head against a brick wall over and over again.

When it comes to athletics OUR ADMINISTRATION HAS NEVER WORKED SMART.

So to every alumni/fan out there, when you hear an administrator or coach make the same statement.....agree with them! And then say "so, what's your plan to change it?"

We've already had an administrator who has had 14 years to "work smart" on the problem. Time to find another one.

Edited October 12, 2015 by SilverEagle

meanrob · October 12, 2015

I have never understood why fans of this program get mad at that statement. IT'S TRUE PEOPLE!!
The problem I have is when someone says that and then doesn't talk about his plan to CHANGE THE SITUATION.
Mac worked hard at a lot of things, but to change the "perception" of our athletic program, you not only have to work hard.......you need to work smart. I'll take someone who works smart every time over someone who keeps pounding his head against a brick wall over and over again.
When it comes to athletics OUR ADMINISTRATION HAS NEVER WORKED SMART.
So to every alumni/fan out there, when you hear an administrator or coach make the same statement.....agree with them! And then say "so, what's your plan to change it?"
We've already had an administrator who has had 14 years to "work smart" on the problem. Time to find another one.

Tougher to recruit to than Ark State, Georgia Southern, WKU, ULL, Utah State, UTSA, MTSU, and a few others? Those juggernauts?

Because those programs would kick our ass right now. And you'll never convince me it's harder to recruit here than those places. We have way too many walkons and too many guys who only we offered. I think we are so used to having sand kicked in our face we don't believe it could be better.

I truly believe Mac thought his personality would change everything and when he hit the wall he threw in the towel. Well, there's somebody out there hungry and smart enough to smash through that wall. We gotta find him.

Tired of little ol' UNT being blamed for everything. The pieces are here.

Edited October 12, 2015 by meanrob

FirefightnRick · October 12, 2015

This pretty much says it all.

Nope...it doesn't.

Rick

Tougher to recruit to than Ark State, Georgia Southern, ULL, Utah State, UTSA, MTSU, and a few others?
Because those programs would kick our ass right now. And you'll never convince me it's harder to recruit here than those places. We have way too many walkons and too many guys who only we offered. I think we are so used to having sand kicked in our face we don't believe it could be better.
I truly believe Mac thought his personality would change everything and when he hit the wall he threw in the towel. Well, there's somebody out there hungry and smart enough to smash through that wall. We gotta find him.
Tired of little ol' UNT being blamed for everything. The pieces are here.

Anyone who spent 5 minutes around the man found out quickly what he thought of himself. He just knew recruits and their parents would be wowed by his presence. They weren't.

Rick

SilverEagle · October 12, 2015

Tougher to recruit to than Ark State, Georgia Southern, WKU, ULL, Utah State, UTSA, MTSU, and a few others? Those juggernauts?
Because those programs would kick our ass right now. And you'll never convince me it's harder to recruit here than those places. We have way too many walkons and too many guys who only we offered. I think we are so used to having sand kicked in our face we don't believe it could be better.
I truly believe Mac thought his personality would change everything and when he hit the wall he threw in the towel. Well, there's somebody out there hungry and smart enough to smash through that wall. We gotta find him.
Tired of little ol' UNT being blamed for everything. The pieces are here.

Totally agree, but what I said in my rant is that "administratively" we have historically never been hungry or SMART ENOUGH to make the kind of hire that will "smash through, (or go over and/or around) the wall". Just scanning that list that you put up there. I would be glad to trade AD's with UTSA......right now!

And you can't compare us to those other programs. We don't know how they are perceived in their respective regions. We just know how WE are perceived in ours.

meanrob · October 12, 2015

And you can't compare us to those other programs. We don't know how they are perceived in their respective regions. We just know how WE are perceived in ours.

I've been to Middle, WKU, Ark State, USU, ULL, Troy, and a few other comparable programs. Some for games, other times just being in those towns. Perception seemed pretty similar to me. A cute little program in SEC/Big 12/PAC 12 territory. None of those programs are the most supported school in their area. None of those have a long history of being successful at football. Most of the games I attended there were less than 10k in attendance. All of the stadiums are worse than Apogee. Most of the towns are worse than Denton. And worst of all, we have been better than all of those programs at some point.

They didn't cry woe is me. They didn't dwell on the past. They made a good hire.

Or maybe they did, then went out and made a good hire. :)

Edited October 12, 2015 by meanrob

SilverEagle · October 12, 2015

I've been to Middle, WKU, Ark State, USU, ULL, Troy, and a few other comparable programs. Some for games, other times just being in those towns. Perception seemed pretty similar to me. A cute little program in SEC/Big 12/PAC 12 territory. None of those programs are the most supported school in their area. None of those have a long history of being successful at football. Most of the games I have been to there were less than 10k there. All of the stadiums are worse than Apogee. Most of the towns are worse than Denton. And worst of all, we have been better than all of those programs at some point.
They didn't cry woe is me. They didn't dwell on the past. They made a good hire.

Well then, you and I are in complete agreement. The difference is that those schools got the administrative "woe is me" people (assuming they have any) out of the decision making process. We've yet to do the same.

But once again. I still believe our situation is harder than just about any other D-1 school, we've just never hired someone (other than Hayden Fry) who works smart to overcome it.

GrandGreen · October 12, 2015

We have a small group of failed coaches and a beat writer that rather be almost anywhere else, keeping the myth of NT as a place that football success is next to impossible. I do agree with RV on this one, everything is in place but I would add a winning coach and a competent AD.

"Villarreal said he believes McCarney was a good hire. He’s right. UNT will be forever in McCarney’s debt for what he did to improve the academic performance of the team and for the work he did to change the culture and perception of the school’s program." How can even the man who hired McCarney utter such nonsense. McCarney based on results and resources available was a worse hire than Dodge, and Dodge's hiring should have got RV fired. I do appreciate McCarney's work on the academic side, but he did nothing but damage to the perception of the school's program. I will never forget his initial assessment of how poor recruiting had been at NT and how small and slow the squad he inherited was. Apparently based on results, the best group he would ever have at NT. His perception of poor recruiting at NT changed relatively quickly to it is just a Herculean task is to recruit here.

McCarney was a lot of talk and in retrospect a horrible hire and based on what his termination will cost, maybe the worse in NT history.