Are we back in Dickey days

[CMJ]

You make it sound like it only happened once.

Dickey only beat them once (which is who this thread is about).  Simon beat them in '97....Dickey in '99.  Obviously the other win in Lubbock was pre-Dickey.

[Mean Green 93-98]

Dickey only beat them once (which is who this thread is about).  Simon beat them in '97....Dickey in '99.  Obviously the other win in Lubbock was pre-Dickey.

Relax.  I know, and I know you know.  Just playin' with you, and pointing things out to others who may not know.  I'm pretty sure Corky's boys also beat Tech back in the 80's.

[Cerebus]

Dickey beat a B12 team twice.  You can say Tech was middle of the pack or you can say Baylor was at the bottom of the conference then, but is there any doubt the worst B12 team today would kick the hell out of us? 

Doubt me? The bottom team in the B12 so far is UT, do you remember what happened last year?

[FirefightnRick]

Tech was mediocre at best. Baylor was terrible. Houston and TCU were not 1/10th as good as they are now. 

Good grief..."this team was this or that".  Really?  Have you forgotten how effing poor we were then?  We didn't even have a room large enough to hold a full team meeting in.  Were you even a fan and paying attention then?

14 of those OOC teams won 8 or more games.....two were a year away from a National Championship..and this doesn't include two conference games with a Boise team that won 10 or more games..one of which Dickey managed to beat.  

But that's beside the point...which is, most were P5s with a ton more to work with than we ever had and represented a much more difficult schedule than Mac has or will ever face here.

Hand Mac a list of schools he has to go on the road against next year that starts off with OU, Tech, Arizona State and Texas A&M and he'll shit his pants.

 

Rick

Edited September 28, 2015 by FirefightnRick

[Mike Jackson]

UTEP won a national title.

I'll give you TCU.  Boise State on the other hand has the advantage of being the only game in town.  There aren't any major metro areas nearby with pro teams that suck up the oxygen -- the Broncos are basically that area's pro team.

 

There are a lot of advantages to that.

I'm sorry "pro team" sucking up the Oxygen?  That is a sorry excuse.  The only advantage exclusive market gets you that is getting marquee schools to come play you in your house.  And this is moot point if you suck and no one shows up consistently because Oregon, Washington, Utah and Colorado are not showing up to play in a half empty house away from home in a non conference game.   UNT has made bad hires period.  The Saints were the only game in town for New Orleans for 2 decades and they sucked.  The stands reflected that but now its Who Dat all over the place.  So yes if we were talking about breaking into a power 5 conference and not having an exclusive market is a valid challenge but we are talking about CUSA west division.

[CMJ]

USC and UCLA play to half empty houses in non conference quite regularly.  Actually, UCLA has trouble filling the Rose Bowl even when they win.  You mentioned Oregon...one pro team in the whole state.  Washington doesn't draw that great for OOC, but they're usually decent enough.  Utah also only has to share with one pro team. 

There are schools in or near Pittsburgh, Miami, , Phoenix Philadelphia, Boston and numerous others that have attendance issues.

 

Schools in big cities actually have a fairly tough time standing out because the Pro teams are the real draw. 

 

 

We are in the market of four pro teams plus two Universities (including one in TCU) that play in conferences more highly regarded than us.  So, yes....it is tough to draw in a market that saturated.

Edited September 28, 2015 by CMJ

[FirefightnRick]

Texas Tech was like a 38 point favorite the year we beat them.  So, they may have been mediocre, but we were definitely not expected to defeat them.  I could give reasons for the other losses, and could point out that some of those other teams were better then than now, so it evens out the ones you dismissed.

 

Might as well save your effort typing.  Some of our fans are so freaking clueless about college football it's embarrassing sometimes.  

The first Texas Tech team Dickey faced in 1998 finished 7-5 with a win over 9-3 Texas, a 2 point loss to 8-4 Colorado, 2 point loss to 8-4 Mizzou,  and a 7 point loss to an 11-3 A&M team, then went on to lose by 17 to Miss St in the Independance Bowl.

And the 1999 Tech team Dickey did beat?....They finished 6-5 with wins over 8-4 Texas A&M, 7-5 Colorado and 7-5 Oklahoma.

Yeah, mediocre...we could only dream to be that mediocre.  Geez!

 

Rick

[HoustonEagle]

Might as well save your effort typing.  Some of our fans are so freaking clueless about college football it's embarrassing sometimes.  

The first Texas Tech team Dickey faced in 1998 finished 7-5 with a win over 9-3 Texas, a 2 point loss to 8-4 Colorado, 2 point loss to 8-4 Mizzou,  and a 7 point loss to an 11-3 A&M team, then went on to lose by 17 to Miss St in the Independance Bowl.

And the 1999 Tech team Dickey did beat?....They finished 6-5 with wins over 8-4 Texas A&M, 7-5 Colorado and 7-5 Oklahoma.

Yeah, mediocre...we could only dream to be that mediocre.  Geez!

 

Rick

You are a long time fan like myself so I don't have to tell you, we were then and certainly are now, far below mediocre in the grand scheme of college football.  With that said, while I don't entirely disagree with the point you are making , many of those games you mentioned are exactly the kind of games we would like to schedule now.  Do I have to remind you how it felt to lose to Troy and South Florida back when we thought we were good? 

[Huff]

Rick there is a phrase "my mind's made up.....don't confuse me with the facts".   That certainly applies to some of our fans in this situation. My wife says that is often applies to me, too.     I enjoyed watching Coach Dickey's teams play.   They played great defense, had a sound kicking game, and used a ball control offense with a solid running game and a few play action passes thrown in.    I enjoy that type of play but understand that not everyone does.    Coach Dickey could be a jerk at times but so can I so perhaps that is why we got along so well.    I would love to go back to those bad old days of winning conference championships and going to New Orleans for bowl games but don't see that in our immediate future.  I had forgotten how brutal those nonconference schedules were.   Thanks for the reminder.  Keep up the good work.

 

[FirefightnRick]

Dickey had success with players he actually recruited.  We're a long way from the Dickey Days.  

^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^

 

 

Rick

[Cerebus]

  Coach Dickey could be a jerk at times but so can I so perhaps that is why we got along so well.

Well in his defense:  If most people had to work at a place where there boss despised them so much they didn't speak and couldn't stand to be in the same room together, they would probably have some jerk moments from time to time.  

[untjim1995]

No doubt that Dickey did more with less than anyone at this university since we went back up to I-A in 1995. Also there is no doubt that Dickey had a ceiling because he was a bland coach with a vanilla gameplan who didn't connect well with people. The best he could ever do was that 2003 team that was a very solid team that finished 9-4. That's was why he never even got a sniff at any other school up the foodchain--like it or not, the SBC was looked at so lowly that nobody even believed that huge conference winning streak was that impressive outside of Denton.

In my opinion, Simon, Dickey, Dodge, and McCarney all continue to prove this point--we haven't found the guy at UNT that can transform this thing into a winner since we moved up to FBS because we haven't found the right combination of great recruiter and great gameplanner. Simon had a little of both, but he was paranoid. Dickey had a few recruiting gems, but his gameplan only worked against teams that were less physical than us. And Dodge recruited skill players well, but his x's and o's were nowhere near a FBS level. And now we have Mac, who runs an archaic offense that no one wants to play in or watch, that is laso dependent on the opponent being physically worse than his team.

None of them have been what we need. And that goes back to the AD who hires them and the BOR who keeps that AD around and the funding they provide.

[Cerebus]

No doubt that Dickey did more with less than anyone at this university since we went back up to I-A in 1995. Also there is no doubt that Dickey had a ceiling because he was a bland coach with a vanilla gameplan who didn't connect well with people.

The funny thing is I always had good interactions with him.  I think above situation that I mentioned had a lot to do with him developing the "me against the world" attitude that did not serve him well.  

[greenit]

Well in his defense:  If most people had to work at a place where there boss despised them so much they didn't speak and couldn't stand to be in the same room together, they would probably have some jerk moments from time to time.  

It doesn't even have to be a boss/employee situation.  I suppose it could apply to other scenarios as well, for example board mod/board poster.

[KingDL1]

The funny thing is I always had good interactions with him.  I think above situation that I mentioned had a lot to do with him developing the "me against the world" attitude that did not serve him well.  

Dickey was pretty great one on one, he came to our GMG Flag Football game and brought many of the starters to coach us up. 

It was his public persona that was a bit rough, and of course the Dickey and RV relationship, I am sure RV got called out by Dickey. Even though RV takes credit for the four bowl games. Whoever got us in the Sunbelt and Dickey's 4 bowl appearances straight coupled we the Barnett Shale really gave RV a ton of momentum that has mostly fizzled out now. Can you imagine what a good AD would have done with all that?  So many missed opportunities. 

[Cerebus]

Whoever got us in the Sunbelt and Dickey's 4 bowl appearances straight coupled we the Barnett Shale really gave RV a ton of momentum that has mostly fizzled out now. Can you imagine what a good AD would have done with all that?  So many missed opportunities. 

[Travis]

Are we really debating whose shit smelled worse?  They both smelled to high holy hell.  

 

DD was infuriating. I don't think anyone said otherwise on this board back then.  Perhaps, we have memory loss.  And, Mac is equally frustrating.  Doesn't this debate seem rather pointless? It proves so little. We have had a string of pretty bad coaches and we are irrelevant through all of them... We were quite irrelevant even during our bowl run outside of Denton city limits. 

Let's get some changes from the top down.... I am starting to feel like RV is becoming more and more like Craig Helwig with this football team. 

Edited September 28, 2015 by Travis

[TheTastyGreek]

The reason I bought into this thing was Dickey. The reason I fell in love with it was Johnny Jones. 

The reason I fell out of love with it was Tony Benford. And the reason I'm on the verge of cashing out and moving on completely is because I have no idea what the hell I can expect to enjoy within the next 2-3 years. 

[Cerebus]

I have no idea what the hell I can expect to enjoy within the next 2-3 years. 

At your age?  You really only have two choices:

or

[ColoradoEagle]

Agreed with TTG on both fronts. Dickey was a decent enough coach who was paid in peanuts and recruited kids to something Bobby Boucher would be ashamed of. He was definitely let go for a reason, and I still would not go back and change that. It's the fact that the highest paid coach in the history of this school (by a LOT) can't even hold a candle to DD that's depressing. That's a pretty low bar.

The only thing giving me hope at the moment is this should be Benford's last season. I can finally look forward to at least one year of basketball season tickets.

[HoustonEagle]

The reason I bought into this thing was Dickey. The reason I fell in love with it was Johnny Jones.

The reason I fell out of love with it was Tony Benford. And the reason I'm on the verge of cashing out and moving on completely is because I have no idea what the hell I can expect to enjoy within the next 2-3 years.

Women's soccer.  Cute girls on top of their game.  Ample parking.  Outside of that I've got nothing for you.

[TheTastyGreek]

At your age?  You really only have two choices:

or

I'm not really interested in watching the golf team.

And with respect to your second suggestion? I don't know what the privacy situation is like up on the club level... But I sit front row, and I'm not interested in doing anything that will get me put on the sex offender registry. 

Women's soccer.  Ample parking.  Outside of that I've got nothing for you.

Rick V.? Is that you? 

[Cerebus]

I'm not interested in doing anything that will get me put on the sex offender registry. 

Smart.  Second offense penalties really get tough.  

[GM1998]

Dickey had success with players he actually recruited.  We're a long way from the Dickey Days.

You employ a system best suited for the athletes you have, or can realistically get in the future. You don't force a system which is ill suited for the personnel you have or are going to get. Why we can't figure this out is beyond me. The UNT way is to hammer the square peg into the round hole. At the end you get a crappy round peg and a damaged hole. No one is happy when that happens.

[Mike Jackson]

USC and UCLA play to half empty houses in non conference quite regularly.  Actually, UCLA has trouble filling the Rose Bowl even when they win.  You mentioned Oregon...one pro team in the whole state.  Washington doesn't draw that great for OOC, but they're usually decent enough.  Utah also only has to share with one pro team. 

There are schools in or near Pittsburgh, Miami, , Phoenix Philadelphia, Boston and numerous others that have attendance issues.

 

Schools in big cities actually have a fairly tough time standing out because the Pro teams are the real draw. 

 

 

We are in the market of four pro teams plus two Universities (including one in TCU) that play in conferences more highly regarded than us.  So, yes....it is tough to draw in a market that saturated.

Where and when did UCLA and USC play i a half empty non-conference road game?  I am calling bullshit.  No organization here plays below .500 ball for an extended about of time and draws fans.  And the only team that can get away with extended runs of .500 mediocrity is the Dallas Cowboys.  But 5 Championships buys that kind of loyalty.  The Ranger's season barely over laps ours and until very recent history they were a laughing stock with an empty ball park every August and September.  Mavericks played in empty arenas in all with long periods of crappy basketball ball here.  And even the Cowboys before Jimmy Johnson turned thinks around had local blackout due to unsold tickets.  If you don't win and are not even competitive on the rare occasion you get a team that generates local interest to Denton you aren't going to get fans.  "There are school near ......." More bullshit and sorry excuses.    Let check the numbers and facts.

Boston College 30k average home attendance 2013 Record a power house   7-6 season

Temple  2014 Season average attendance 23.2 k

I won't even address Miami cause if you are talking about any other school than the U it is insulting to this University and it current resources FIU didn't have D1 or D2 football before 1999.  FAU didn't start till 2001.  So comparing your school's position to them and making excuses base on what FAU & FIU can't  do is like comparing a child to an adult.

Phoenix - calling more bullshit.  There are 3 count them 3 public universities in the state of Arizona.  Northern Arizona play in Flagstaff, AZ a long way from Phoenix.  Plus the Lumberjacks play FCS ball.  Arizona State (Tempe AZ)  20 minutes for Phoenix, they average well over 50k a game.  Stop making excuses!  The 100k local alumni should demand better for this program PERIOD  NO MORE EXCUSES.

 

Edited September 29, 2015 by Mike Jackson