Sad and I'm hurting

[IslandEagle]

Hate to say it, but Hayden Fry was the AD who made the decision to leave the Missouri Valley

and go independent. That gamble did not work out and we ended up dropping to 1AA as a result. 

A big miscalculation on Fry's part. We could not get any bowl bids as an Indy despite winning records.

[JesseMartin]

I don't deny that some of our past administrations have not always made the right decision but at this point we've been D1/FBS for about 21 years or so and we still haven't really figured stuff out.  At some point the the anus is on the current administration wanting to fix the problem.

I've almost always put my anus on the administration.  It fixes a lot.

Sometimes anus and onus works both ways.

My anus only works one way, buddy...because this is 'Merica.

Funny addition to the backstory about the stadium seating...originally it had been a move by Bill Miller (don't remember if it was before or after he was the President of SGA/SA) who got tons of student support and raised money for the additional seating, but something about how the fees were charged or money was raised or something was wrong and there wasn't a legal way to give it back, so it was set up as an endowment for an annual scholarship (which was still around when last I checked).  But since the interest was enough to get that to happen, and they didn't want a revolt, the admin caved and agreed to get up to speed and help put out the word to get money raised the proper way to get the stadium seating.  All in all it was a really weird way for things to pan out, but they did.

[MeanGreenTexan]

Intentional?

I'm betting it's a reference to Sports Radio 1310 the ticket afternoon host: Mike Rhyner, who says "anus" when meaning to say "onus".

[GM1998]

Can't really dwell in the past with UNT football. It has never been consistent or successful. There have been high points, but those are the outliers. Those are the facts and it hurts me to say it. A move to Conference USA in the Dickey years would have been ideal. Conference USA today is a shadow of its past and is more similar to the Sunbelt Conference that we left. But we have league games in Texas now. Most fans would like us in the American Athletic Conference. I don't agree. At least not right now. The American Athletic ( the Conference USA conference of yesteryear) is a G5 conference with quality opponents but it still isn't much better than our current conference.

At the end of the day we all want better for our team and curse the mis-steps of the past that are beyond our control. For now if we are just competitive in Conference USA and against middle of the road P5 teams it would be a huge improvement.

Go Mean Green Beat Iowa!

[TheTastyGreek]

Hate to say it, but Hayden Fry was the AD who made the decision to leave the Missouri Valley

and go independent. That gamble did not work out and we ended up dropping to 1AA as a result. 

A big miscalculation on Fry's part. We could not get any bowl bids as an Indy despite winning records.

Yup. 

For all the good he did here... The guy gambled all of our chips on a long shot play to shame the SWC into letting us join. He lost, and then he left for Iowa and didn't have to suffer the consequences of losing the bet. 

Everyone who laments the conference mates we used to have and how we ought to still be on their level... The reason we disconnected from them was because Fry took us out of the conference.

[EagleMBA]

Can't really dwell in the past with UNT football. It has never been consistent or successful. There have been high points, but those are the outliers. Those are the facts and it hurts me to say it. A move to Conference USA in the Dickey years would have been ideal. Conference USA today is a shadow of its past and is more similar to the Sunbelt Conference that we left. But we have league games in Texas now. Most fans would like us in the American Athletic Conference. I don't agree. At least not right now. The American Athletic ( the Conference USA conference of yesteryear) is a G5 conference with quality opponents but it still isn't much better than our current conference.

At the end of the day we all want better for our team and curse the mis-steps of the past that are beyond our control. For now if we are just competitive in Conference USA and against middle of the road P5 teams it would be a huge improvement.

Go Mean Green Beat Iowa!

I don't want to go all Canales on ya'll, but this post reminded me of a couple of sayings/trueisims that I am wont to say on occasion, edited for football:

We will never play another game in the past!

If we don't learn from the mistakes we have made in the past, we are f'ing doomed to repeat them!

 

[Cerebus]

The requirements back in '82? were 30,000 seat stadium, 17,000 attendance, and 85 scholarships.

One minor correction Gray, I believe the attendance requirement was recommended out of committee but was not passed by the general membership primarily due to frantic lobbying by the MAC.

The same thing happened in the early 2000s when the number was set to be 15k.  The MAC and SBC lobbied to get the teeth pulled out of the requirement, and the big conferences decided to drop the issue in exchange for the multi-tiered fcs -> fbs transition.

[Christopher Walker]

How many people does a music concert draw? Check the records and you will find that The School of Music is actually a money loser for UNT.

I'm sure some begrudging Advancement staffer down the line probably told you something to the effect of the concerts average 50 people in attendance, and they wouldn't technically be wrong. But when that average is drawn from 1100+ concerts, recitals and other performances yearly... it's just a huge sample size.

But no, we certainly do not lose money in any way. We're actually among the most frugal Colleges within the university.

 

 

[Mean Green 93-98]

One minor correction Gray, I believe the attendance requirement was recommended out of committee but was not passed by the general membership primarily due to frantic lobbying by the MAC.

It absolutely passed.  The MAC was able to get what amounted to an exemption, but that was the reason we had to have so many in attendance in '94 to move up to 1A.

[letsgiveacheer]

Yup. 

For all the good he did here... The guy gambled all of our chips on a long shot play to shame the SWC into letting us join. He lost, and then he left for Iowa and didn't have to suffer the consequences of losing the bet. 

Everyone who laments the conference mates we used to have and how we ought to still be on their level... The reason we disconnected from them was because Fry took us out of the conference.

I recall Fry saying that he had no choice but to leave the Valley. Of the football schools, Cincinnati had already gone while Memphis and Louisville left about the same time we did. Only Tulsa, West Texas, and NM State remained.  Who knows what he was really thinking? My guess is that he thought we were going to be invited to join the SWC. We all know how that turned out.

[VideoEagle]

Nothing much to correct, Deep.  The requirements back in '82? were 30,000 seat stadium, 17,000 attendance, and 85 scholarships.  The MAC got a concession that if half of the conference had 30K stadiums that the remaining conference members could stay in the conference and attendance got reduced to 15,000 average in consecutive years.  But, we were independent after our withdrawal from the MVC so we had to have 30,000 seats.

Chancellor Hurley opted to spend the money that would've gone to athletics upgrades for academics.  To his credit he did a very good job of improving academics but athletics suffered.  Al Hurley was not much of a football fan because his university (St. Johns) was a basketball power but did not play football.  Had the old MVC held together I believe that Dr. Hurley would've found a way to meet the Division 1-A requirements because the Valley was a premier basketball league.

 

 

 

;

I've got to search my hard drive for the exact requirements, but the above is correct. The problem was the requirement was RETROACTIVE a year or two. For us to remain 1A we would have had to have a 30K home stadium the year BEFORE the requirements kicked in. Expanding the stadium would not have stopped moving down but it could have sped up the process of moving back up. Nothing could have stopped the process of moving down because of the retroactive requirements. I was told by a low level staffer in the AD at the time there was a document we could have filled out that would have stopped the process, but Arkstafan has done a very good explanation to show that wasn't quite true. We could have filed an appeal as did a number of schools forced down. None were approved, not one. The closest one to being approved was Arkansas State but they were denied their appeal. One school, I think Cincinnati, threatened to sue the NCAA after their appeal was denied and they DID get to stay 1A. But no one else did. 

By the way, if we had designated Texas Stadium as our official home stadium and kept it that in 79 or 80, we could have stayed 1A. But we never called it our "home stadium." SMU did and we could have - the Cowboys and Irving wanted us to - but we didn't. 

I'll try to find the original requirements as I have it saved someplace on my hard drive after Arkstafan's explanation. 

[GrandGreen]

Yup. 

For all the good he did here... The guy gambled all of our chips on a long shot play to shame the SWC into letting us join. He lost, and then he left for Iowa and didn't have to suffer the consequences of losing the bet. 

Everyone who laments the conference mates we used to have and how we ought to still be on their level... The reason we disconnected from them was because Fry took us out of the conference.

Balcony, the MVC football conference was down to next to nothing by the time: Fry took NT out.  Schools in MVC in 1975 after NT left:  Tulsa, New Mexico State, West Texas, Drake and Wichita State.  

So lets get rid of that myth.  The problem was that Fry got minimal support at NT and he left.  Then the real issue is what happened after Fry departed. The decision was made to reduce expenses and basically let the program slide into Iaa.  

It is true that if NT had still been in the MVC than some of the requirements to remain 1a would have been less.  However,  does anyone really think that the administration at that time had any inclination to stay in 1a?

 

[untjim1995]

Tulsa stayed independent and did just fine. We failed after The SWC dream died because we literally gave up. I-AA was pure give-up.

[DallasGreen]

I'm sure some begrudging Advancement staffer down the line probably told you something to the effect of the concerts average 50 people in attendance, and they wouldn't technically be wrong. But when that average is drawn from 1100+ concerts, recitals and other performances yearly... it's just a huge sample size.

But no, we certainly do not lose money in any way. We're actually among the most frugal Colleges within the university.

 

As Treasurer of the Foundation I have seen the numbers and frankly sir you are absolutely wrong. That Dept. pays out far more in scholarships than it takes in from donations, and produces very little internal revenue. We have been held back by producing teachers and musician who earn little revenue as graduates and give none of it back. I for one will always work to see that we produce professionals and business leaders as these are our hope for recognition and outside funds to get us where we want to be. If you are content to be a music school and teachers college welcome back to 1890.

On another note Hayden Fry was on the MVC Expansion Comittee and was lobbying hard to get Southern Miss into the MVC. Dr. Bill Miller our faculty athletic rep. was attending the MVC annual meeting when it became known to Hayden that the expansion committee had secretly met without even notifying him as a member and admitted Indiana State and Illinois State to the MVC. As athletic director he recalled Dr. Miller and told MVC officials that we had no desire to be a member of a conference that would operate in such an underhanded manner. If you want to blame someone for past mistakes blame the idiots who did not vote to retain Bill Brashier when Hayden left and instead brought in Jerry Moore and his infamous Nebraska power I and ruined a good team that Hayden had left. This was a worse hire than even Parker or Dodge and doomed us going forward. Make no mistake that Dr. Hurley only wanted to spend the bare minimum on athletics and never really understood why they were pertinent to the mission of the university. I was there the night he announced we were dropping to I-AA, and remember him saying that lacrosse was big at Air Force and would be popular here. That is just how out of touch he was with the concept of athletics engaging alumni and generating alumni support for the university. He was not malicious just uninformed. DeWitt Weaver the Assistant A.D. under Hayden and former A. D.  @ TT  once told me that Tech thought NT would be the one admitted to the SWC and not Tech so the lack of vision far predates Hayden Fry whose only fault was thinking far more visionary than the old Nestors of Denton could handle.

[Christopher Walker]

Well that became quite the geriatric rambling tangent.

[DallasGreen]

Well that became quite the geriatric rambling tangent.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Unlike those of you wet behind the ears I have been there done that many times. I will be here to see coaches and A. D. s come and go as well as presidents, BOR, and donors but the one constant is I'll still be here. Feel free to dismiss any history I might give you and make up your own take, but their is wisdom that comes only from experience. You will learn that as you mature or at least I hope you acquire the wisdom to learn from experience. Good luck on your " young" ideas. How have they worked out for you the last ten years?

[southsideguy]

What it feels like to me UNT fan.

[DeepGreen]

Gramps, go take your Metamucil and I think it's your bedtime. If by experience you mean "say stupid unverified things on a football forum at age 60+" then you are right on with that.

It's the hippies fault that UNT is 0-3 isn't it?

Ryan Munthe and Christopher Walker, show some respect to the "geriatric" and "Metamucil" posters on this board.  Many of the followers of MG Sports(football), have sacrificed tears and treasure to keep our University from completely folding the tent again.  These are dedicated people who try to share the past with the younger Mean Green fans on this board so you'll have a better understanding where our athletics have come from and where we a going.  We are all in this together and want to see it succeed.

You can disagree, but be respectful.

DeepGreen

One of the old guys. 

[DeepGreen]

I wasn't referring to you, because you seem reasonable and intelligent. DallasGreen seems like he has dementia.

I don't know DallasGreen, other than the fact that he has been around a while.  Specifically, watching this thing we all love called North Texas sports. Not sure where you and DallasGreen got each others panties in a wad, but slack off.  The "Green Elders" have experience with this University.  Listen.  Learn.

[untjim1995]

Gramps, go take your Metamucil and I think it's your bedtime. If by experience you mean "say stupid unverified things on a football forum at age 60+" then you are right on with that.

It's the hippies fault that UNT is 0-3 isn't it?

This may be the sorriest post I've ever read on this forum--and that's saying A LOT.

 

[FirefightnRick]

 

 

Gramps, go take your Metamucil and I think it's your bedtime. If by experience you mean "say stupid unverified things on a football forum at age 60+" then you are right on with that.....

 

.....DallasGreen seems like he has dementia.

 

What a couple of dick posts.

 

Rick  

Edited September 30, 2015 by FirefightnRick

[Cerebus]

Ryan, if you want to be on moderated posting like Cougar King, PLEASE keep on doing what you're doing.  Otherwise be civil.  That same warning goes to everyone.

 

Tl;Dr: Don't be dicks to each other.  

[untjim1995]

You would know.

DallasGreen is the WORST poster on here. At least when I post things 9/10 they aren't too serious. DallasGreen posts non-stop bullshit about the Denton hippies and the things UNT is actually good at keeping us from being a top-tier football program. He's delusional, obscenely out of touch, and comes off more or less as the guy shaking his fist at the young teenagers and ranting on 60 Minutes about them damn millennials. I don't really care one way or another what he, or, for that fact, most of you think about me or my opinions. If that's not clear yet, you clearly haven't been paying attention to my posts over the past 5-6 years.

Also, Deep, if by learning you mean "learning" in the same vein of "learning" stuff from Donald Trump, then, I'm good. Didn't you hear? Us millennials are wrecking the status quo and don't respect our elders!!!!

You know, in addition, what good has he ever done for the Denton community? Looks like yet another "alum" who went here, regretted how 'liberal' 25% of the campus was and bitched about Denton and left to Dallas. Dallas isn't our university's hometown. Denton is. Trashing Denton is trashing UNT, and that's the reality. Dallas isn't UNT's hometown as much as we try to pretend it is.

Ben Gooding thinks you're going overboard here...

[KingDL1]

Ryan Munthe and Christopher Walker, show some respect to the "geriatric" and "Metamucil" posters on this board.  Many of the followers of MG Sports(football), have sacrificed tears and treasure to keep our University from completely folding the tent again.  These are dedicated people who try to share the past with the younger Mean Green fans on this board so you'll have a better understanding where our athletics have come from and where we a going.  We are all in this together and want to see it succeed.

You can disagree, but be respectful.

DeepGreen

One of the old guys. 

DeepGreen Thank You!

Guys keep it Civil Please. See the Rules if you are uncertain

As Cerebus Said! 

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[Army of Dad]

DeepGreen Thank You!

Guys keep it Civil Please. See the Rules if you are uncertain

As Cerebus Said! 

******************************************************************************

They are now provided prior to registration.  I do not see an active link with the new version of the software.  However you have to agree to the rules prior to registering.

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Please take a moment to review these rules detailed below. If you agree with them and wish to proceed with the registration, simply click the "Register" button below. To cancel this registration, simply hit the 'back' button on your browser.

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Please remember that we are not responsible for any messages posted. We do not vouch for or warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message, and are not responsible for the contents of any message.

The messages express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of this bulletin board. Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact us immediately by email. We have the ability to remove objectionable messages and we will make every effort to do so, within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this bulletin board to post any material which is knowingly copyrighted, false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law.

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Does that include unlocking a thread to post bye bye GIFs? How about egging on fights?

 

 

Yes, I know I'm not supposed to point out the rules to admins, but there's been an awful lot of un-admin like behavior around here lately and I hate unfairness. 

 

 

 

 

 

(ok, I'll go back to following the rules now)